deadly force

[jonmerritt]

In Iowa, If you or a family member, or pet, live stock, whatever, is attacked, and you are not trespassing, shoot it. If a dog is not tagged, shoot it (the law). If it is tagged and just walking by, let it walk by. If I shoot an attacking dog, and the owner is stupid enough to pull a gun on me for defending myself, then the owner is just as bad as the attacking dog, shoot it. But that is Iowa

 

[ByAnyMeans]

If my dog was attacking then of course but his statement was not that. His statement was "a pitbull gets one no hesitation" which is entirely different. I don't care what type of dog I have it will be a good dog or it will be culled. If you shoot at me with my weimaraner by my side or you shoot him in his yard WITHOUT provocation simply because of your prejudice towards the breed whatever it is I will return fire. As far as I'm concerned you are a sick person in those circumstances and I have no idea of your further intentions.

 

[FCFC]

"I suppose it is tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail."

--A. Maslow--

 

[elsullo]

Pepper Spray and Cane

Attention: some dogs are immune to pepper spray! Also, five to ten percent of humans are also immune to pepper spray.

Personally, I do not leave the house without carrying a personal defense spray, but it is a dual-active-ingredient model containing both pepper and CS/CN gas nerve-irritant. Mace is one brand that makes this model, Sabre is another reputable brand with a dual-ingredient model. Check out DefenseStop.com for a selection with good prices.

When I used to walk my dog I carried a heavy cane to ward off menacing dogs. If they dared to get close, a jab in the ribs always sent them away. The best, and cheapest, cane is a heavy, solid Hickory "Stockman's Cane" from Lehman's, a farm supply internet store---about fifteen dollars delivered for the best fighting cane in the world!...........................elsullo

 

[csmkersh]

And once again, our resident contrarian provides nothing except contrariness:

[quote="FCFC]I suppose it is tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail."

--A. Maslow--[/quote]

And Elsullo is correct on capsaicin, the "hot" in pepper spray, is not always effective. The Rott I had trouble with got a mace/capsaicin combo sprat. It was also a foam so less likely to effect user if wind is from the wrong direction.

And FCFC still doesn't provide an possible solution. See following message. sigh.
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[FCFC]

And once again, our resident contrarian provides nothing except contrariness:

I suppose it is tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail."

--A. Maslow

Hardly "contrariness." Just an acknowledgement of how perceptive Maslow was.

Check out Posts 23, 26, 27, and 28 above....

 

[ByAnyMeans]

CSMKERSH:

I have been looking for a combo spray in foam formula but unable to find, do you remember where you got yours from.

 

[csmkersh]

Place called O'Bars here in SA. He's closed now. This was put out by MACE, not one of the smaller companies.

http://www.mace.com/

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[ByAnyMeans]

thanks, i'll check it out.

 

[BruceRDucer]

"I need some answers....

I need some answers....

If you walking down the street with you dog and you have a cc
and you total legal and say a dog come running up to you and your dog and starts fighting .... can you use deadly force.

(1) How does one get a concealed carry permit, with no basic knowledge of the law?

(2) Interrogative sentences end with a (?)

 

[SFvet]

A full force kick to the body of most K9's will stop them from fighting.

 

[BruceRDucer]

has anyone ever shot a dog ......


well i had to one time .. and trust me they don't go down fast.... dogs are
so strong.... i had a wild pit come on my land when i live in a very ruel area... and he started growing and semi lunging towards me

so i used water didn't work i used sticks didn't work
used a loud siren didn't work ........ i had to shoot him with a .45 acp and i shot him in his back leg i thought i was watching a movie the bullet really did fall out of him the shell was laying next to the dog and i was close and very dead on....... it took 7 Rd's to finally take him down.......

Outside of Elizabeth CO a few years back, a nice lady used to turn a pair of pits out to run the land. They killed an elderly lady, and attacked others on different occasions.

I think the owner did hard time.

If you had to defend yourself by shooting, my sympathies are with you.

/

 

[BruceRDucer]

'

All i'm saying is if it is one of my or my family American Pitbull Terriers you shoot I will try my best to unload a magazines worth in your direction to "stop the threat" with "no hesitation.'

(1) Don't escalate the rhetoric with frothy hypotheticals

(2) Don't escalate the rhetoric with frothy hypotheticals

 

[FCFC]

How can a person shoot an animal and leave him in the street to suffer?

This will probably hack a few off here, but it is the way I see things. The years long rash of kids and pets being killed by specific breeds would mean that some breeds, Pits, Rotties, etc... should be handled differently than a po'd poodle. A Lab or Collie probably just needs a good loud yell or a kick and off they go. A Pit on the other hand will not yield no matter what you do to it. This I know from first hand experience and have the scars to prove it. The retriever gets off the hook for bad behavior, the Pit gets a bullet-no hesitation.

I dunno. Maybe you're right.

But that decision rule is pretty inflexible. And in most cases, perhaps that inflexibility can be avoided.

I'm wondering if the shooter in the following pit bull story was avoidably inflexible? We may never know. But we do know that the shooter was irresponsible. That much we do know, no matter what the details were.




Owner of pit bull found bleeding from gunshot wound claims dog
By Rebecca Panoff
February 11, 2008

PORT ST. LUCIE — A local woman found a pit bull with a bullet wound outside her home Saturday and police are trying to find out who shot the animal, according to police officials.

The female dog named Costa was taken by Port St. Lucie Animal Control to an emergency veterinarian’s office and then taken to the Humane Society of St. Lucie County, according to Officer Vanessa Moore. She was picked up by her owner Monday afternoon, according to Humane Society Director Frank Andrews.

A woman found Costa when she was taking out her trash at her home in the 2600 block of Southwest Cameo Boulevard on Saturday evening, Moore said. The dog was bleeding profusely from its wound, but had a sweet disposition and followed the woman as she walked outside.

The animal had no tag, implanted chip or identifying tattoo, Moore said.

Her owner called the Humane Society looking for Costa and she was released to her after police said there was no reason to think she had anything to do with the shooting of the dog, according to Port St. Lucie Police Department spokesman Officer Robert Vega.

The owner told police the dog got out of the house Saturday, and she and her family had been looking for her since.

Port St. Lucie police are still investigating the incident and looking for the shooting suspect, Vega said.
http://www.tcpalm.com/news/2008/feb/11/psl-woman-finds-pit-bull-bleeding-gunshot-wound/

 

[BruceRDucer]

But we do know that the shooter was irresponsible.

...except for specific and factual evidence, identifying "irresponsibility" on the part of the shooter.

/

 

[FCFC]

But we do know that the shooter was irresponsible. That much we do know, no matter what the details were.

...except for specific and factual evidence, identifying "irresponsibility" on the part of the shooter.

What you ask for is in the article.

Is it not very clear?

 

[ByAnyMeans]

1) rhetoric with frothy hypotheticals get back rhetoric with frothy hypotheticals


2) rhetoric with frothy hypotheticals get back rhetoric with frothy hypotheticals

 

[csmkersh]

FCFC, other than your always finding fault with the gun owner, we know nothing of use in the matter. Yes, we know the pit bull had been shot but not the circumstances that led to the shooting. Care to provide that information? Maybe you could pull it out of your <deleted to keep things High Road> like your other posts.


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[BruceRDucer]

What you ask for is in the article.

Is it not very clear?---FCFC

No. It is not clear at all. Absolutely no more information about the shooting is in your link.

Absolutely no information is provided to indicate the dog's shooter was IRRESPONSIBLE. You are writing nonsense.

I'm sure there are a few exceptions, but the rule should be:

Don't bring a gun to a dogfight.--FCFC

Yeah, you'll find that rule on a cereal box maybe. Your argument is premised on the erroneous assumption that guns are basically ineffective. If that were true, people would not rely upon guns for self-defence or Concealed Carry.

Any more nonsensical propositions FCFC?

 

[Photomask]

Use of deadly force is never clear-cut or easy to decide. When you pull the trigger it should be the last resort. It will, most likely, cause you great expense, even if you were absolutely justified. Being that these laws vary greatly from state-to-state and throw in the layman's opinion of what it means and it is a steep slippery slope to be on.

Your best bet would be to have this discussion with the cops who will be first on scene and decide whether or not to arrest you, the DA who will decide to prosecute or not and a lawyer that will have to defend you. The big problem then becomes: Can it then be considered premeditated?

When it gets boiled down to the most basic of variables. You will still have to be the one to decide and you will be the one that is held responsible. The end question in the eyes of all that will judge you later becomes: Was it a reasonable action and the last possible resort?

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

if a dog is on another dog i use the field goal kick. has worked manytimes. stun gun is great but you gotta get too close. stinger rounds in a 12 guage have worked in the past.

 

[gripper]

The scumbags that actually fight their dogs have a thing called a "break stick"...think of it as a wedge on a shaft or stick with a T-handle.It us used to pry open one set of jaws from another dog.
When I used to run with my dogs ( back when they were still alive an dI was living where I coul dhave one) ;I used to keep a walking stick with a wedge shaped tip and a couple of palm swells at the top and midpoint dfor that purpose- I had PBT's and Dobies ( recsue league dogs-gotta love'em all) some dirtbags used to think it was cute to sic their dogs on me.That stick got three uses-wieght in my right hand ( my dog 's leash was in my left when we ran ) ;to separate dogs when necessary ....and to issue a beat down on the punk who would abuse /endanger his and my dog ( and me!)

 

[FCFC]

... we know nothing of use in the matter. Yes, we know the pit bull had been shot but not the circumstances that led to the shooting. Care to provide that information? Maybe you could pull it out of your <deleted to keep things High Road> like your other posts.

Hmm, so we can stipulate that the dog was shot. Once we do that, we know the shooter was irresponsible. There is enough information in the article to show that the shooter was irresponsible. It's clear as a bell.

Why is it so difficult to see the obvious? Might it be that good ole gun-first bias???????

Ole Abe Maslow....he really nailed it.

 

[Happiness Is A Warm Gun]

Hmm, so we can stipulate that the dog was shot. Once we do that, we know that the shooter was irresponsible. There is enough information in the article to show that. It's clear as a bell.

Why is it so difficult to see the obvious? Might it be that good ole gun-first bias???????

I hope you never become a DA.

The dog was shot. From that you determine in 100% of instances if a dog is shot then the shooter was irresponsible?

What if the dog was attacking a person when it was shot?
In most states if you reasonably fear for your life then you can use deadly force. Are you saying that only applies to humans?

So if I reasonbly fear for my life from a mugger with knife I can shoot but if a snarling pitbull has me backed against a wall and is snapping at me I need to just there and wait to get mauled?

***? We don't know anything about the situation other than the dog was shot. Lets replace dog with mugger.

Hmm, so we can stipulate that the mugger was shot. Once we do that, we know that the shooter was irresponsible. ... It's clear as a bell.

Does it still make sense to you? Based on your logic anytime anyone anywhere shoots anyone or anything for any reason they are irresponsible?

 

[Zip7]

I shoot dogs all the time around here. I have two female hunting dogs penned up out back, and so occasionally I get visitors. I generally shoot them with an old rusty crosman BB gun - one pump - BB to the butt works well for most.

If I ever see the same dog around again, they are real skittish, and when they see the crosman they know what's up. Most of them give up after one or two visits.

I've broken up many a dog fight over the years - mostly with the broom or the field goal kick method, but with a pit bull involved you need to head it off sooner than usual.

You may find this a little out of the ordinary, but most people who have coon dogs or squirrel dogs will not tolerate an aggressive dog at all. If they have a dog that shows aggression toward other dogs more than once or twice, they will cull it - commonly with a 22 bullet.

I haven't had a problem with it - mostly because I prefer female dogs, and if I raise a dog from a pup, I've never had a problem with aggression.