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Dedicated 6.5 (.264) can thoughts

Discussion in 'NFA Firearms and Accessories' started by horsemen61, Jun 15, 2020.

  1. horsemen61

    horsemen61 Member

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    Howdy everyone!

    alright so over the weekend a friend let me shoot his tbac ultra 9 can......:what::what::what:




    NOW I NEED A 6.5 can of mine own!
    Any models y’all suggest I look into? :D:D:D


    PS yes I know about the tax stamp and the lengthy wait times just so we’re clear on that

    thanks for the help


    Horsemen61
     
  2. Gtscotty

    Gtscotty Member

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    What uses/hosts do you have planned for it?
     
  3. 748

    748 Member

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    Is it for a 6.5 Creedmoor or grendle?
    I would just get a 30 cal silencer since you are going to be shooting super sonic ammo and 30cal has the best selection and prices.
    If it's a Creedmoor you need a big heavy can that is able to take a 308win blast, a Grendel can use a 300 blackout can which is a little smaller and around 1/2 to 1/3 the weight.
     
  4. Gtscotty

    Gtscotty Member

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    Most of the popular .30 cal cans will be able to take any chambering that fits though the bore up to .300 win mag. The differences in weight come down to differences in length, material and construction. In general longer it's quieter but heavier. 17-4PH SS, Inconel and Stellite stand up better to high temperatures from rapid fire, and blast baffle wear from short barrels.

    A light TI can like the TBAC Ultra series can stand up to the .300 win mags pressure wise no problem, but if you're going to be mag dumping though a 10.5" barrel they aren't the best choice.

    Something with a heavily built Stellite or Inconel core like a DA Sandman or SiCo Saker is going to stand up much better to mag dumps and short barrels, but it's going to be heavy and unweildly.

    The best thing to do is take a good look at what your actual uses will be and buy the best balance for that use case. A lot of folks (me included) wind up buying super tough cans the first time around only to realize that our uses are just as well served by light cans, and they're a lot easier to actually use and live with.

    You also have to figure out what kinds of mounts you want to use, direct thread, Quick Disconnect (QD), or thread over muzzle brake (TOMB). QD is quickest and probably most secure, direct thread is usually the slowest, lightest and least secure (but still fine for most uses), and TOMB is in the middle in most attributes, being like a large direct thread that tightens down on a taper.

    Recommendations for general purpose cans to look at would be:

    TBAC Ultra 7
    SiCo Omega 300
    Energetic Armament Vox S
    Dead Air Nomad 30
    Griffin Armament Explorr .300
    Rex Silentium MG7
     
  5. horsemen61

    horsemen61 Member

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    Mainly for the Creedmoor I have a heavy bench savage model 10 that came threaded from the factory I’d like to use it on it

    2ndly I want to build a short 19 inch barreled hunting bolt action to deer hunt with

    as far as mounts I’m up for anything I just want to know it’s not going anywhere I don’t plan on lots of rapid fire shooting :barf: just to make shooting more hearing safe!

    also I just love how much fun I had using it shooting subs with trail boss I was giggling like a school child over a dirty joke
     
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  6. 748

    748 Member

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    What thread does the gun have?
    My guess would be 1/2x28 but I have seen a tendency to go bigger, to 5/8 threads on new long range guns in 30 cal, don't know if that applies to 6.5 too.

    I don't even know if there is a significant difference between shooting a 6.5 out of a 6.5 silencer or a 30 cal silencer.
    You can get a dedicated 6.5 silencer but I think you are just paying more for a big heavy silencer that you can't put on a 30 cal gun.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2020
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  7. horsemen61

    horsemen61 Member

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    I’m thinking it has 1/2-28 threads
     
  8. Gtscotty

    Gtscotty Member

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    It's probably 5/8x24, most 6.5 Creedmoors are, especially the heavier barrel varieties. I actually had my 6.5 Kimber Montana cut and threaded 1/2x28, but only because there just wasn't enough meat for bigger threads with a decent shoulder.

    I'd go TOMB or direct thread for those uses, they are generally lighter, cheaper, and less likely to affect accuracy.

    Really the Ultra series would be a good option, they are the home team here, so everyone at my local long range uses them. They sound good, are tougher than they need to be for most uses, and are very light. The CB variety threads over a brake and tightens on to a taper to get a bit more retention. The DT variety basically has a brake rocksett into the can, same can though. I'd go CB.

    As for a 6.5 vs .30 cal, I'd definitely go .30 for your first can. You are covered for pretty much all the usual centerfire chamberings you'd want to shoot. From the testing I've seen, the 6.5 Ultras are only ~3dB quieter than the .30s of the same length on Creedmoors. That's about the lowest difference you can hear, and depending on the firearm you might not even be able to hear it. At any rate, it's not much.
     
  9. horsemen61

    horsemen61 Member

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    Thank you for all your thoughts!
     
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  10. Hoser

    Hoser Moderator Staff Member

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    I have a TBAC Ultra 7 and 9 in 6.5mm and also 30 caliber cans.

    Awesome cans. Just awesome.

    My 243 is really quiet. Behind the rifle I cant tell the difference between my 308 and 6.5 cans, but people around me can.
     
  11. MachIVshooter

    MachIVshooter Member

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    As stated, for a first suppressor, unless you don't own anything over .264" cal, go with a .30. You really aren't giving anything up suppression-wise, and gain all the flexibility of being able to use it with .27, .28 and .30 cal hosts.

    TBAC cans are top shelf, and it's a great company built by great people (Zak used to moderate here, and Ray is a solid dude), but they are also expensive and a little more specialized. As Gtscotty noted, they (and any other all-Ti can) are not a good choice for hard use. They also have a proprietary mounting system. It's a good system, but the brakes are not cheap, and there is a very limited selection. For precision rifle use, they cannot be beat, and they are a great choice for hunting as well. For general purpose that may include ARs and the like, though, they may not be the best option.

    If you do want a more all-around critter for a first suppressor, I would recommend a stainless bodied .30 can with stainless and/or inconel/stellite internals, and one that can accept the de facto standard 1-3/8 24 TPI Omega/Bravo pattern mounts & adapters. Take a hard look at the YHM Resonator R2 and the Rex Silentium offerings, both of which are very reasonably priced ($450-$600). These are a little larger diameter (1.56" and 1.7" diameters, respectively) tubeless cans, so lots of internal volume for the external dimensions. What I mean by tubeless is that the baffle skirts form the tube. This is how I build many of mine, as well as the way I do many recores of production and Form 1 stuff.

    Before assembly, my tubeless builds/recores look like this:

    20191223_152009.jpg

    20200428_143754.jpg

    After welding and heat treatment, you have this:

    20200410_204041.jpg

    20200410_204128.jpg
     
  12. Gtscotty

    Gtscotty Member

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    I forgot about the R2, it gets very good reviews for such a reasonably priced can.

    Those cans are beautiful, do you ever put wrench flats on the body to help with mount tightening/removal? I don't suppose there's anyway to get one of your tubeless builds through the F1 process? Hard to re-core a tubeless...

    Also, are you still taking re-coreing and barrel threading jobs? I read (hopefully incorrectly) on one of the forums that you had stopped taking new work.
     
  13. Sebastian the Ibis
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    Sebastian the Ibis Member

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    Decide how much you are really going to move the can around. They get hot, and can be a PITA to move from one gun to another during a range session An oven glove will be an essential part of your range bag - if you plan on doing anything more than taking a shot or two. IMHO if you are not going to move it from one gun to another during the day, just get a direct thread can and tighten it down before you go, if you only have one gun you may want to consider permanently attaching it. On the other hand if you plan to frequently move it between guns or have guns with different threads, then consider a QD mechanism. But recognize their limitations, and the fact that you are introducing 1 or 2 new failure points into the system (the threads between the barrel and your muzzle device, the QD threads between the muzzle device and the silencer, and possibly the thread between the body of the can and the mount if you go with some sort of adapter). Ideally you would weld the muzzle device to the barrel, and the mount to the can so that you don't have to worry about them - but I don't think many folks myself included - bother. This way you have a 3x greater chance of failure, plus more likely you can disconnect the threads you want to at the range. I can't count the times I've not been able to get the right threads separated because I didn't bring the right tool with me to the range. This can be fixed by greasing some threads, but remember you will have huge temperature swings and consequent expansion and contraction so nothing is perfect. Also, muzzle devices (especially in odd patterns, e.g. 1x15 H&K) can be unobtanium for years until a new batch is whipped up - and you may be limited in the systems you chose, SiCo, YHM etc. All in all, I'd personally rather go with direct threads but recognize that is not always possible if you want to move the can between guns with different threads, or want to have the ability to do so in the future.
     
  14. greyling22

    greyling22 Member

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    [QUOTE="

    I don't suppose there's anyway to get one of your tubeless builds through the F1 process? Hard to re-core a tubeless...

    [/QUOTE]

    theoretically, you could get machIV to make his blast baffle large stainless tube as long as you want your form 1 can to end up, then either 1) sell it to you as a tube where you form 1 it by doing the paperwork, engraving it, then welding a large fender washer on the end to now have the worst single chamber suppressor ever made that needs a recore. He could cut off your washer and a significant portion of your tube, then weld on his beautiful baffle stack, or if you cannot weld,

    2) have him take the longer tube, thread the muzzle end for a solid cap, or weld on a solid end cap, and sell it to you as a solvent trap. Then you form 1 the thing, drill a hole, engrave it near the mount end, send it back to him, and he cuts your tube down to the normal length he uses, then welds a stack on the end to get you back to the OAL you filed for your can.

    Again, that's all theoretical. I don't know if he would be willing to do it, but I think it is legal. And now I want one....... stupid kitchen remodel taking up all my disposable income.

    Annotation 2020-06-17 140700.jpg
     
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  15. MachIVshooter

    MachIVshooter Member

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    It's not that convoluted.

    The one's shown above all started as solvent traps:

    20200104_180647.jpg

    Those consist of a billet machined 17-4 primary tube section, a 304 welded seam forward tube section and a 6061 aluminum cap.

    The people who purchased them filed & received an approved F1, at which point they bore the cap large enough to pass bullets of the F1 caliber and reassemble. At that point, it's legally a silencer; ATF doesn't care how well they work or what they have inside them, just that they meet the definition, which a tube with bored front cap that can be attached to a firearm muzzle does. From there, it can be serviced, including recoring. Can't change caliber, can't change length, and can't replace primary tube section. Everything else is on the table, though, so the forward tube and cap get scrapped, replaced with a fully welded stack and a new cap, all 17-4, then heat treated and finished in moly resin to look like this:

    20200411_110656.jpg

    20200428_202536.jpg
     
  16. greyling22

    greyling22 Member

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    yes! that is what I was trying to describe. I knew I wasn't inventing the wheel. Did you supply those tubes. or were the acquire elsewhere?

    How does a can like the one above compare to a titanium tube with a welded stack inside in terms of weight? about the same?
     
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  17. MachIVshooter

    MachIVshooter Member

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    I make these traps.

    A tubeless will be lighter for a given internal volume with comparable baffle cone thickness. The ones above are 1.6" OD/1.51" ID, typically come in about 17 ounces for an 8" .30 cal that will handle. 300 RUM. To get comparable internal volume with a stack inside a tube, you have to go 1.75" OD, and will usually end up over 20 oz with stainless internals. The skirts can be thinner inside a tube, but not by enough to mitigate the tube weight. I generally do .030" skirt thickness for welded stacks in tubes, .045 skirts for tubeless where high velocity rifle cans are concerned.
     
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  18. MachIVshooter

    MachIVshooter Member

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    Here's a truly dedicated 6.5 can for ya!

    I just finished this one up, it was a F1 out of a solvent trap that was sent in for a recore into an integral on a Bergara B14 6.5 creed.

     
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  19. 748

    748 Member

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    I can weld stainless like that.
    I would form 1 a tube and cone pile like that.
     
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  20. Hoser

    Hoser Moderator Staff Member

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    Vey cool Nick.
     
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