woof
Member
"It's illegal to take deer in VA with a 22 caliber bullet, but only if you're caught."
Integrity is what you do when no-one is watching.
Integrity is what you do when no-one is watching.
Deer Rounds
- Thread starter dfunde01
- Start date
- Status
Here's an answer that is true for all calibers
Go to the bullet manufacturers' web sites and learn more about bullet construction. Hornady, Sierra, Speer would be good to start. Then see if Barnes, Swift, Nosler or Berger have additional information.
In general, you will discover that they make different bullets for each of four different uses: Target, varmint, big game, and dangerous game. Each category is constructed differently for that particular purpose. Deer are in the big game category. Choose a bullet designed for big game. If you buy factory ammo, look for a manufacturer with bullet construction meeting big game requirements. That's all you gotta do.
Go to the bullet manufacturers' web sites and learn more about bullet construction. Hornady, Sierra, Speer would be good to start. Then see if Barnes, Swift, Nosler or Berger have additional information.
In general, you will discover that they make different bullets for each of four different uses: Target, varmint, big game, and dangerous game. Each category is constructed differently for that particular purpose. Deer are in the big game category. Choose a bullet designed for big game. If you buy factory ammo, look for a manufacturer with bullet construction meeting big game requirements. That's all you gotta do.
Auburn1992
Member
Too bad FMJ is not humane nor legal to hunt with...
longdayjake
Member
Yeah, too bad international government considers fmj to be the most humane on a human but hunters consider it to be the least humane. I don't get it. Someone is going to have to define "humane" for me.
gvnwst
Member
Look at cor-bons 70gr (barnes) x-bullet loads. Or any other 60gr+ weight. That is what i am going to use, when i go out with my .223.
skinewmexico
Member
My 11 year old twins killed 14 does one year with a 223, none of them went over 10', and none of them were head shots. Traditional high lung / shoulder shot placement works fine, despite what the old school "bigger is better" people say. A 55g Remington PSP works wonders.
cliffy
member
I use both!
.223 Remington and .243 Winchester: both adequate deer fare. ONLY the 60 grain .223 Nosler Partition is proper for deer hunting in my experience, while regarding .243 Winchester fare, the 100 grain Speer Grand Slam and the 90 grain Swift Scirocco II have served well out to 300 yards. The .243 100 grain Nosler Partition is only needed on tough Western Mule Deer. This year I will stalk the Wyoming Pronghorn with 90 grain Swifties @ a muzzle velocity of 3300 fps. These missiles shouldn't quit at beyond 350 yards. Regarding
.223 Remington offerings, the Nosler 60 grain has no peers to date. The 55 grain Speer Bear Claw has eluded my grasp to date. I wish to some day attain some for experimentation. They have been thus far "difficult" to obtain. Any OTHER .223 fare to date are COYOTE bullets at best. cliffy
.223 Remington and .243 Winchester: both adequate deer fare. ONLY the 60 grain .223 Nosler Partition is proper for deer hunting in my experience, while regarding .243 Winchester fare, the 100 grain Speer Grand Slam and the 90 grain Swift Scirocco II have served well out to 300 yards. The .243 100 grain Nosler Partition is only needed on tough Western Mule Deer. This year I will stalk the Wyoming Pronghorn with 90 grain Swifties @ a muzzle velocity of 3300 fps. These missiles shouldn't quit at beyond 350 yards. Regarding
.223 Remington offerings, the Nosler 60 grain has no peers to date. The 55 grain Speer Bear Claw has eluded my grasp to date. I wish to some day attain some for experimentation. They have been thus far "difficult" to obtain. Any OTHER .223 fare to date are COYOTE bullets at best. cliffy
drgrenthum
Member
OP i applaud you wanting to use the best bullet in 223 that you can get. Dont listen to the guys with their .600NEs talking about you're not using enough gun. A bulllet in the right place will put down anything. I use 223 almost exclusively with no issues.
Whether it is legal or not is another conversation. Just because something is legal doesnt make it right and just because something is illegal doesnt make it wrong. I like using 62g m855s for penetration, i want to make sure the bullet is getting to where i want it and want shroom up stop short. I could be wrong in my assesment and it wouldnt be the first time but it works.
Whether it is legal or not is another conversation. Just because something is legal doesnt make it right and just because something is illegal doesnt make it wrong. I like using 62g m855s for penetration, i want to make sure the bullet is getting to where i want it and want shroom up stop short. I could be wrong in my assesment and it wouldnt be the first time but it works.
The Bushmaster
Member
Question:
"What is the best .223 deer load?"
Answer:
Trading in the .223 for a .30...
"What is the best .223 deer load?"
Answer:
Trading in the .223 for a .30...
woof
Member
I could send my wife or daughter out on the road in a Yugo with bald tires and bad brakes. It is "adequate." I know lots of people who have driven Yugos and lived. Maybe a hack novice shouldn't drive a car like that but if you have superior skills it's ok, right?
No, when it's about something that matters, adequate and minimum and barely legal aren't good enough. I care about my wife and daughter. I also care about deer being killed as cleanly as possible. Any young hunter who learns from me will learn that and learn it well or he won't hunt with me.
But different people care about different things and that's why threads like this go on and on. There's no accounting for taste and there's no accounting for values.
No, when it's about something that matters, adequate and minimum and barely legal aren't good enough. I care about my wife and daughter. I also care about deer being killed as cleanly as possible. Any young hunter who learns from me will learn that and learn it well or he won't hunt with me.
But different people care about different things and that's why threads like this go on and on. There's no accounting for taste and there's no accounting for values.
A good friend of mine has been using the Federal loading with the 60gr Nosler Partition for a couple years now. With great success I might add. He has taken a total of 7 deer, and none made it further than 50 yards. He keeps shots under 200 yards, and waits for a good broadside shot. He always shoots for the lungs. Seems to work well for him. And he still gets to go hunting. He was in an accident several years ago and cannot tolerate much recoil. That is why he decided to give this a whirl.
My therory is, if it is legal in your state have at it. To me, being ethical is following the letter of the law. JMHO of course.
My therory is, if it is legal in your state have at it. To me, being ethical is following the letter of the law. JMHO of course.
BigBuckMaster
member
Winchester 55g FMJ with a spine shot. thats what i did. keep in mind that you need to be real good with your gun.
ggarfield965
Member
Here is my 2 cents. I have been out hunting times where a big old rock would have been sufficient to kill a deer. I like to hunt in thick woods where a lot of shots are along shooting lanes from tree stands along deer trails. In my opinion, your average doe or medium-small buck is going to be dead meat with any .223 expanding round. I like to wait for a broadside shot and shoot a deer clean through the heart or lungs. If I had to pick a shot to use, why not Federal Vital Shock, they are very consistent.
Now granted, I see no good reason to pick a .223 over a medium powered rifle, they are a bit on the small side and I would not take an especially long shot or a shot through a lot of bone. I think in an ideal world a .243 is a great rifle, a .30-30 is swell for the woods, and a .270 or .30-06 will do the rest. I happen to use the .30-30
This said, the .223 may cramp your hunting style a bit, but a good hunter will know how to use this round humanely and how to put meat on the table with it. Try hunting with a bow only for a few years and you might find yourself singing the praises of the .223 I probably don't need to remind anyone that our troops are virtually shooting .223s over there, and if the army has adapted to use this, I'm pretty sure you can manage to kill a deer with it.
If I had to choose a gun to survive in the woods with if I got stranded, I would pick a .22lr. Why? Because I could carry a ton of ammo and kill everything from birds to deer. How do I know? I shot clean through two sides of our steel burning barrel with my .22 with a standard load at 60 yards.
It is none of our business to tell someone with a .223 (whether that's their only center fire rifle, they prefer it, or they are a varmint hunter that shoots a few deer every year) that they shouldn't be shooting deer with it. You don't need the optimum gun for every dang thing you shoot. You don't need to throw down $600-800 every time you take up hunting a new animal. Bottom line, guns kill and they are good at it. In Wisconsin, a .223 is legal, and I say use it if you want to.
Now granted, I see no good reason to pick a .223 over a medium powered rifle, they are a bit on the small side and I would not take an especially long shot or a shot through a lot of bone. I think in an ideal world a .243 is a great rifle, a .30-30 is swell for the woods, and a .270 or .30-06 will do the rest. I happen to use the .30-30
This said, the .223 may cramp your hunting style a bit, but a good hunter will know how to use this round humanely and how to put meat on the table with it. Try hunting with a bow only for a few years and you might find yourself singing the praises of the .223 I probably don't need to remind anyone that our troops are virtually shooting .223s over there, and if the army has adapted to use this, I'm pretty sure you can manage to kill a deer with it.
If I had to choose a gun to survive in the woods with if I got stranded, I would pick a .22lr. Why? Because I could carry a ton of ammo and kill everything from birds to deer. How do I know? I shot clean through two sides of our steel burning barrel with my .22 with a standard load at 60 yards.
It is none of our business to tell someone with a .223 (whether that's their only center fire rifle, they prefer it, or they are a varmint hunter that shoots a few deer every year) that they shouldn't be shooting deer with it. You don't need the optimum gun for every dang thing you shoot. You don't need to throw down $600-800 every time you take up hunting a new animal. Bottom line, guns kill and they are good at it. In Wisconsin, a .223 is legal, and I say use it if you want to.
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Cor-Bon offers a .223 DPX (barnes X all-copper bullet) loading in both 53 grains and 62 grains. I would feel comfortable using the 53 grainer on whitetail, but I'd stick with the 62 for mule deer, though I don't use the .223.
If I had to, I'd want these.
If I had to, I'd want these.
woof
Member
"It is none of our business to tell someone with a .223 (whether that's their only center fire rifle, they prefer it, or they are a varmint hunter that shoots a few deer every year) that they shouldn't be shooting deer with it."
It is our business when someone goes to a forum and raises the question for discussion. If I overheard a conversation in which someone said they were hunting deer with a .223 I would make no comment.
It is our business when someone goes to a forum and raises the question for discussion. If I overheard a conversation in which someone said they were hunting deer with a .223 I would make no comment.
black_powder_Rob
Member
he only asked for the best load to take deer with... I belive a 60 gr soft point will work just fine. Good luck with which ever you choose.
KINGMAX
Member
I like a 270 for deer
cracked butt
Member
60 gr Nosler partitions.
I'd rather see hunters use properly loaded .223s that they can shoot very well than have them shoot 30-06s that make them flinch. Most of the guys in the woods are way overgunned and way underskilled. That being said, a lot of hunters consider the .243 to be 'unmanly' and too small.
I'd rather see hunters use properly loaded .223s that they can shoot very well than have them shoot 30-06s that make them flinch. Most of the guys in the woods are way overgunned and way underskilled. That being said, a lot of hunters consider the .243 to be 'unmanly' and too small.
BENELLIMONTE
member
dfunde01,
I sighted in my Savage 111(223) with Federal Premium 55 grain Trophy Bonded Bear Claw ammo (catalogue#P223T2)It gave me 1" groups after 5-10 shots. I haven't used it on deer size game so I can't testify as to the efficacy of the 223 on deer. If I did use this round on deer I'd be sure I only took side presentation (heart/lung/rib cage) shots.
Good luck,
BENELLIMONTE
I sighted in my Savage 111(223) with Federal Premium 55 grain Trophy Bonded Bear Claw ammo (catalogue#P223T2)It gave me 1" groups after 5-10 shots. I haven't used it on deer size game so I can't testify as to the efficacy of the 223 on deer. If I did use this round on deer I'd be sure I only took side presentation (heart/lung/rib cage) shots.
Good luck,
BENELLIMONTE
Olympus
Member
- Joined
- Jul 14, 2008
- Messages
- 4,212
That makes a very good point right there.
I love read all about how these .223ers love to post all their success stories. We hear plenty of that. But I haven't seen too many people saying that the one they shot with a .223 ran off and never was found. I think it's hard to believe that something like that has never happened.
I also love to hear people giving the argument that it doesn't matter what size the bullet is, as long as you place it right. I completely agree. A nice 55 grain V-Max through the eyeball of a cape buffalo will put it out of it's misery. But how many of us are capable of that kind of accuracy? And of that number, how many of us are capable of that kind of accuracy without shooting from a bench? Shooting from a blind or treestand without much of a rest, if one at all? How many of us honestly think about breathing rates before we fire on a deer? What about looking for limbs that could deflect a bullet that small? Out of all the deer that have ever been shot anywhere other than a head/spine shot, out of that number how many actually drop in their tracks? I'd wager a good amount of money that more run off and run a further distance if shot with a .223. Nobody wants to tell the stories about how the exit wound on a deer shot with a .223 was so small that the deer was lost because of an inadequate blood trail to follow.
I love the posts about how the soldiers use essentially .223s and they kill terrorists just fine, so why wouldn't they work against deer? That's a good point, but you're comparing apples to oranges. Soldiers are firing considerably larger amounts of rounds at a single target than a hunter fires at a deer. Soldiers are also working to neutralize a threat. I don't think they're worried about the guy that got shot in the femoral artery and is slowly bleeding to death. It might be a better example to compare a sniper to a deer hunter. Snipers aren't spraying a lot of lead at a target. They're one-shot one-kill shooters. What's the most popular round for a sniper? It's essentially a .308...a .30 caliber, not a .22 caliber.
You can argue this debate until you're blue in the face. I even have a .223, but I have more sense than to take it to the woods. It really makes no sense. :banghead:
Bottom line: use the .223 for what it was DESIGNED for.
cracked butt
Member
A guy who can make a heart or double lung shot with a .223 is going to lose a lot less deer than a guy with a 30-06 or 300 magnum who flinches and jerks the trigger every time he 'aims at' the deer.
I've watched through binoculars a lot of deer being poorly shot or wounded while hunting- by the sound and number of the muzzle blasts and the cadence of the shooting, its usually with remington 742/7400s in 30-06.
I've worked deer rifle sight-in clinics over a dozen or so years, I've seen countless people who have not fired their deer rifle since the last season and could barely keep their shots on a target- from a benchrest! I can shoot my AR-15 more precisely at 100 yards standing than 99% of them could shoot their '06s. A properly constructed .224" bullet (not hollow points,not FMJs, Not varmint bullets) placed in the boiler room of a deer will bring it down very quickly, a .30 bullet to a front leg, lower jaw, stomach, or hams will not.
I've watched through binoculars a lot of deer being poorly shot or wounded while hunting- by the sound and number of the muzzle blasts and the cadence of the shooting, its usually with remington 742/7400s in 30-06.
I've worked deer rifle sight-in clinics over a dozen or so years, I've seen countless people who have not fired their deer rifle since the last season and could barely keep their shots on a target- from a benchrest! I can shoot my AR-15 more precisely at 100 yards standing than 99% of them could shoot their '06s. A properly constructed .224" bullet (not hollow points,not FMJs, Not varmint bullets) placed in the boiler room of a deer will bring it down very quickly, a .30 bullet to a front leg, lower jaw, stomach, or hams will not.
rklessdriver
Member
The REAL problem with using the .223 on deer, is that the guys who wound deer with a .223 are they are the same group of guys who wound deer with a .300 Weatherby...
It's all about skill. Shooting a deer in the hind leg, jaw, antler, lower front leg ect is not humane reguardless of what caliber you shoot it with.
Proper shot placemnt is paramount in taking any game animal cleanly and humanely. Simply put you know the limits of your rifle, you know the limits of your shooting ability (if you don't you have no business hunting), if the shot is out side those paramaters... pass on it. It's the buck fever riddled clowns who fill up their scope with a deer and shoot "at it" that wound deer, not the rifle, not the optic, not the caliber or anything else.
I have a little Weatherby Vanguard in .223 that I have used to kill a whitetail every year for the past 10yrs. As for illegal, state laws differ but its completely legal to use a .223 in in NC.
I have used hand loaded 60gr Trophy Bonded Bear Claws (I think they are availiable in 55gr and 60gr now) and the factory loaded Winchester 64gr Power Point. My little Weatherby's 1 in 12 barrel turns both projectiles fine (less than 1"@100yrds). BOTH projectiles are specifically constructed with killing deer in mind. So is the 60gr Nosler partitioned, but I haven't tried them yet as I'm happy with what I have so far.
Given PROPER SHOT PLACEMENT any one of those 3 rounds will humanely kill a deer.
Will
It's all about skill. Shooting a deer in the hind leg, jaw, antler, lower front leg ect is not humane reguardless of what caliber you shoot it with.
Proper shot placemnt is paramount in taking any game animal cleanly and humanely. Simply put you know the limits of your rifle, you know the limits of your shooting ability (if you don't you have no business hunting), if the shot is out side those paramaters... pass on it. It's the buck fever riddled clowns who fill up their scope with a deer and shoot "at it" that wound deer, not the rifle, not the optic, not the caliber or anything else.
I have a little Weatherby Vanguard in .223 that I have used to kill a whitetail every year for the past 10yrs. As for illegal, state laws differ but its completely legal to use a .223 in in NC.
I have used hand loaded 60gr Trophy Bonded Bear Claws (I think they are availiable in 55gr and 60gr now) and the factory loaded Winchester 64gr Power Point. My little Weatherby's 1 in 12 barrel turns both projectiles fine (less than 1"@100yrds). BOTH projectiles are specifically constructed with killing deer in mind. So is the 60gr Nosler partitioned, but I haven't tried them yet as I'm happy with what I have so far.
Given PROPER SHOT PLACEMENT any one of those 3 rounds will humanely kill a deer.
Will
nickotineisdeadly
Member
- Joined
- Dec 6, 2008
- Messages
- 1
i am 16 years old and i used a .223 to kill my first deer.
everybody that says that it is not powerful enough is completely wrong.
this gun will drop a dear just as fast as a 270 as long as you have a heart of lung shot. when i used a 223 i used the bullistic tips and they work very well.
dont listen to all the fools that tell you dont hunt with a .223, cause trust me, it will get the job done
this has nothing to do with a .223 but i read a post earlier about somebody talking about bow hunting and im just throwing this out there for people like that.....
ive moved on from rifle hunting and i am a bow hunter now. i think alot of people should consider bow hunting as it is alot more fun and if you have the rite equipment it will drop a deer in no time. i use the Rage broad heads and they put a bigger whole in a deer than the 270 i use to use did.
everybody that says that it is not powerful enough is completely wrong.
this gun will drop a dear just as fast as a 270 as long as you have a heart of lung shot. when i used a 223 i used the bullistic tips and they work very well.
dont listen to all the fools that tell you dont hunt with a .223, cause trust me, it will get the job done
this has nothing to do with a .223 but i read a post earlier about somebody talking about bow hunting and im just throwing this out there for people like that.....
ive moved on from rifle hunting and i am a bow hunter now. i think alot of people should consider bow hunting as it is alot more fun and if you have the rite equipment it will drop a deer in no time. i use the Rage broad heads and they put a bigger whole in a deer than the 270 i use to use did.
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