Defend the property

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KaceCoyote

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My step father and mother(who is currently serving overseas) own a rather large plot of land, aproximately 20-25 minutes away from the nearest police station. My Step father, additionally runs his own business and does keep large amounts of cash on his person from time to time. He's rolled into his driveway and seen folks who didnt belong there before, one was getting stoned and the other preparing to take turkey in his front yard. So he's finally beginning to understand a firearm's uses.

Now he and I dont see eye to eye, I think alot of this started when we both tried entirely too hard to be the other's best friend. Anywho, I'd like to show him I -do- care. So I'm decided to buy him a handgun, I'll snag him an SKS or shotgun down the road. Here are the problems however.

One: I'm a student, keep the handgun to about 200 bucks or so. He would prefer an autoloader.

Two: he's in a wheelchair, if things get bad he doesnt have the opportunity to run. Its either stand in fight or drop the gun and wheel away, which in their rather rough yard is sort've tough for him.

Three: This thing is going to ride in his glove box, sit in his fanny pouch. Get knocked around, beat on and cleaned sparringly. He's new to the gun thing, it'll take awhile to condition him but for this first firearm it needs to be tough.

Suggestions folks?
 
I'd say go with something like a 9mm or 40 S&W. For stand and fight .4 would offer more power theproblem is most 45's I have seen have a smaller magazine capasity and if Im staying and fighting I'll take a slightly weaker caliber for an increased ammount of bullets. Also if he is going to have an autoloader and retreating is not an option make sure he learns how to quickly clear jams or better yet get him a second gun that he can likly get in his hand much faster then he would be able to clear a jam. A revolver with a speed loader can be a great replacment for an autoloader and magazines. Being that he is in a wheelchair he also has a bit of an advantage in that he can VERY easily conceal multiple firearms within arms reach withough much difficulty.

As for the price Im not so sure on that but for 200 or under for a good reliable firearm I'd say you are venturing into used territory.
 
You should be able to pick up a used Ruger P-series in that price range. They are reliable, tough, and more than capable of getting the job done for little money.
 
Lupinus said:
I'd say go with something like a 9mm or 40 S&W. For stand and fight .4 would offer more power theproblem is most 45's I have seen have a smaller magazine capasity and if Im staying and fighting I'll take a slightly weaker caliber for an increased ammount of bullets. Also if he is going to have an autoloader and retreating is not an option make sure he learns how to quickly clear jams or better yet get him a second gun that he can likly get in his hand much faster then he would be able to clear a jam. A revolver with a speed loader can be a great replacment for an autoloader and magazines. Being that he is in a wheelchair he also has a bit of an advantage in that he can VERY easily conceal multiple firearms within arms reach withough much difficulty.

As for the price Im not so sure on that but for 200 or under for a good reliable firearm I'd say you are venturing into used territory.
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Used is fine, I'd been pricing Police trade in 9mm glocks actually.
 
Glocks are decent enough I would try and go with something in at least 9mm. Smaller pocket pistols in something like 32 ACP might be a bit cheaper but if it were me I'd spend the little bit of extra money for 9mm or better.
 
If bulk isn't an issue I'd second a used Ruger P-series semi auto. You might also look for a used .38spl or .357 revolver. Stainless if possible, considering your description of the conditions in which it will live.

You can buy used Taurus or Rossi revolvers in that price range. S&W or Ruger as well, you may just have to look a little harder.
 
Mak or Star BM, either should be easily to handle, tough as nails, serve the purpose well and either should be <$200.
 
critter said:
Mak or Star BM, either should be easily to handle, tough as nails, serve the purpose well and either should be <$200.
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I dislike Ruger due to their work on the AWB, but tell me about STAR. Are these the 9mm M1911 pattern pistols?
 
May I put in a couple of considerations, before you look at any particular gun?

1. He's in a wheelchair. This means that he may need one hand for the chair, and one for the gun. He needs something that can be fired one-handed, without so much recoil as to make it uncontrollable, and which will be as "limp-wristing" proof as possible - as you know, there are pistols that require a really firm grip on the gun if they're not to malfunction during the ejection and reloading cycle.

2. Given his wheelchair-bound status, he may have problems with rapid reloading. A high magazine capacity, to make a reload as unnecessary as possible, is a bonus here.

3. He's not a gun nut, so simplicity of operation is paramount. A "point-and-click interface", without extraneous safeties, etc., is going to be important.

All of these considerations must be resolved before even thinking about caliber, etc.

My suggestion would be to have him shoot some autopistols at a range, to determine the level of recoil he can handle with one hand, and to find out whether "limp-wristing" is going to be a problem. If he does have "limp-wristing" problems, an autopistol is ruled out completely.

If he can't handle a pistol, I'd suggest a good .38 Special revolver loaded with Speer 135gr. JHP's. These do well over 900 fps from a 4" barrel, and well over 800 fps from a 2" barrel. Don't buy him a lightweight gun, either, as this will kick too hard for comfort with a one-handed hold. Buy him a full-weight revolver. In your price range, a S&W Model 10 may be available, or a used Ruger or Taurus in this caliber. When funds allow, a set of Crimson Trace laser grips might be a worthwhile addition - so make sure that CT make grips for the model of revolver you choose for him.

If he can handle an autopistol without "limp-wristing" it, I'd suggest a Glock 17 or 19 as the simplest solution to his problem. It's light enough to be convenient for carry, has good magazine capacity (17 or 15 rounds respectively), and has no external safeties to worry about. I would not suggest any weapon with a grip safety, such as the otherwise excellent Springfield XD, because a one-handed grip from a guy in a wheelchair may not fully activate the grip safety in moments of stress. Unfortunately, to buy such a gun, you're going to be well over your $200 budget... so this may have to wait until more funds are available.

At a minimum, look for a .38 Special revolver as a beginning weapon, and when more funds are available, get a pistol. The revolver can then go to his wife, if she wants it, or be traded in against the pistol.
 
He's been shooting with me before, thought my friend's 3.25" .44 magnum was "A hoot!". He gets around soley with his arms, so his upper body is quite abit more powerful than even my own. His ability to handle recoil is -not- an issue, and he does still have -one- leg. Its just not a whole lot've help in alot've situations, like one where he has to fight somone. It will however aid in providing a very stable platform with which to fire.
 
Whatever 9mm he likes the fit of in his hands.

With serious upper body strength he should be able to shoot it with one hand like you would shoot it with two.

Glock 17 or 19 are both good choices, but he needs whatever he is most comfortable with, even if that means saving up for a while.

Good luck!
 
I know a few people in wheelchairs and they all use both hands for their activities. I guess I don't understand the assumption that a person in a wheelchair can only shoot with one hand.. What is the reason for this line of thinking?

The recoil certainly isn't enough to make the chair roll backward or something silly like that.
 
I know a few people in wheelchairs and they all use both hands for their activities. I guess I don't understand the assumption that a person in a wheelchair can only shoot with one hand.. What is the reason for this line of thinking?
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I've trained handicapped and disabled shooters for years, and so have a lot of experience with wheelchair-based shooters. The reason for the one-handed hold is that there are many times when the shooter will need to move the wheelchair while in a shooting situation - to find cover, to move around so that he/she can continue to cover the target (the shooter can't twist too far around while seated in the wheelchair), to move forward or backwards, to avoid physical attack, etc. If the shooter is using two hands on the gun, he/she can't use one hand to move the wheels.
 
If the shooter is using two hands on the gun, he/she can't use one hand to move the wheels.
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Dang - this never would have occurred to me.

IMO, there aren't many autoloaders under $200 that are really worth having. Having handled a CZ52, I'm not sure that I'd present it to someone for self-defense. It's not very ergonomic and it shoots a cartridge that (unless handloaded) really doesn't have much commercial support for self-defense purposes.

I would suggest buying a 4" S&W Model 10 or Ruger Security/Speed Six, or alternately saving your pennies and getting a 9mm Glock.
 
ditto

200$ used 38's are easy found, and .357's are possible to find. might have to take a bit of worn blue..

since he's got plenty of hand strength, i'd say the .357.
you might look at used .357's on gunbrokers and get a clue what is possible.

and as for 'beating up on it'.. well.. if you start with some blems, you won't weep at one or two more.

regular maintenance won't hurt. does it ever?
38's are cheap for the range, and some hot loads for daily carry.. and throw in a speedloader or two.
 
iv had a ruger p 89 before they are decent pistols, if i still had one id offer it to ya, i got rid of all my 9mm guns when i discovered .40 in the early 90s. i literally abused that ruger for several years and it never jammed. i dont think i ever even cleaned it. it stayed eiather in my glove box or in the door of the ambulace i worked on at the time. my humble opinion is that the .40 is a far better round for stopping 2 legged varmits. it was big and clunky compared to my glocks or colts.
 
My suggestion? Find out what the laws are in your state/area about 'defending' property and yourself. That would be the FIRST thing to do so he doesn't get sent to jail. Just because a couple guys are on the front porch smoking weed doesn't mean he can whip out the piece (or maybe you can in your state).

Second, firearms safety training.

After that, it's whatever he likes to shoot.
 
chris in va said:
My suggestion? Find out what the laws are in your state/area about 'defending' property and yourself. That would be the FIRST thing to do so he doesn't get sent to jail. Just because a couple guys are on the front porch smoking weed doesn't mean he can whip out the piece (or maybe you can in your state).
Click to expand...

+1! As for autoloaders, I think 9mm's the way to go. Cheap practice and wide availability. My suggestions are Steyr S9, Taurus Millenium Pro & Springfield XD Subcompact. However, any decent smallish and reliable 9mm will do. Small is key because it needs to fit his glove box/fanny pack. Whatever he gets though, he needs to put in the practice.
 
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