Defense against black bear

[hardluk1]

denton It does take the right ammo, place well when your intent is to kill. 170gr sp work well. And bear spray could have save some hospital time. Guys have killed blacks around here with 9mm's while bow hunting. Some have used a broadhead slap on the nose in a tree stand. Other used bear spray. Bears tend to sleep in guys deer stands at times as corn tends to be close by. Got to be sure to look at your stand before climbing up.

 

[Jezcruzen]

I was alone and walking to my climbing stand deep in the George Washington National Forest before light on the opening day of bow season. I had placed by stand at the bottom of a popular tree the evening before.

With my bow in one hand and a flashlight in the other, I noticed that a rotten log across the overgrown logging road had been moved since the evening before. Something moved to my left and I swung my flashlight over in that direction. A black bear was standing in the brush. Once I shinned the light on him/her, it took off down the ridge snapping branches and making a lot of noise as it went.

It happened so quick.... too quick to be scared.

I walked on to my stand, but it was just spooky having to lay my bow down and turn off the light as I catipillered up the tree trunk in the dark and all alone. The more I thought about it the more spooky all of it was. I was happy to get back to the Jeep!

 

[22-rimfire]

Minimize the food sources on your property. The bears will spend all their time at the neighbors. Bears like most animals are looking for an easy meal. If you provide the easy meal, they will litterally return almost nightly.

Try to enjoy the bears and keep your distance. I wouldn't get too excited about the occasional bear visit. Once they start visiting your property, they can be a real nuisance.

 

[jmr40]

Unprovoked black bear attacks are so rare as to be statistically irrelevant. In the past two decades there have only been 7 fatal black bear attacks on people

This may be a true statement, but the number of incidents are becoming far more common. There have been 2 of those deaths and multiple attacks within a 100 mile radius, within 10 years, and within a 3 hour drive of were I live. I'm aware of at least a dozen incidents in East TN and North GA just in the last few years. Most of which never made the news. Over a 100 year period the number may be irrelevent, but over the last 10 years it certainly is not.

I don't spend a lot of time worrying about it. I do use common sense in regards to food, but I cannot control what others who have been in an area before me are doing. If other hikers/campers/homeowners are doing stupid stuff and training bears to accept human food I must be prepard. The state killed 3 bears just over a week ago that came out of the mountains and were making pests of themselves in a neighborhood near where I hunt.

I still believe most bear incidents can be traced back to poor human decisions, but often the person who pays, is not the person who trained the bear to hang around humans. It only makes sense to be prepared with an adequate firearm.

My personal choice is a Glock 10mm loaded with the same 200 gr Doubletap loads. But the 357 is also a good choice. I prefer the Glock because it gives me the same performance in a much lighter, easier to carry package when hiking in bear country.

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2012/oct/05/bears-killed-after-roaming-chatsworth-georgia/

Another incident just over a year ago

http://www.11alive.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=202374

From 2007

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/24/us/24bear.html?_r=0

 

[Alaska444]

This may be a true statement, but the number of incidents are becoming far more common. There have been 2 of those deaths and multiple attacks within a 100 mile radius, within 10 years, and within a 3 hour drive of were I live. I'm aware of at least a dozen incidents in East TN and North GA just in the last few years. Most of which never made the news. Over a 100 year period the number may be irrelevent, but over the last 10 years it certainly is not.

I don't spend a lot of time worrying about it. I do use common sense in regards to food, but I cannot control what others who have been in an area before me are doing. If other hikers/campers/homeowners are doing stupid stuff and training bears to accept human food I must be prepard. The state killed 3 bears just over a week ago that came out of the mountains and were making pests of themselves in a neighborhood near where I hunt.

I still believe most bear incidents can be traced back to poor human decisions, but often the person who pays, is not the person who trained the bear to hang around humans. It only makes sense to be prepared with an adequate firearm.

My personal choice is a Glock 10mm loaded with the same 200 gr Doubletap loads. But the 357 is also a good choice. I prefer the Glock because it gives me the same performance in a much lighter, easier to carry package when hiking in bear country.

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2012/oct/05/bears-killed-after-roaming-chatsworth-georgia/

Another incident just over a year ago

http://www.11alive.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=202374

From 2007

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/24/us/24bear.html?_r=0

+1, I don't expect to ever have to use my CCW in defense of my life or defend my family, so according to the naysayers on bear attacks, by that logic, I shouldn't carry a gun either for SD purposes.

Your comments reflect precisely the situation. Bear behavior is changing because our actions against them have changed drastically.

Being prepared for bear attacks is only prudent if you are going to venture into bear country. Stating that bears are always afraid of us flies in opposition to the growing numbers of bear attacks we see in the news all the time. If you examine those stories, an overwhelming majority of them occurred to people that did not take into account the dangers of bears when they ventured into bear country and had no bear defense options at all.

Being prepared for SD situations is prudent even though I never expect to have to use that preparation. Being prepared for aggressive bears just makes sense if you venture into the woods. It puzzles me why the same folks that relish SD scenarios make fun of folks discussing real bear attack situations. In any case, I treat both situations equally. Prepare for the situations you could encounter and pray you never do.

 

[denton]

Bears tend to sleep in guys deer stands at times as corn tends to be close by. Got to be sure to look at your stand before climbing up.

The mental image of trying to persuade a bear that he doesn't want to nap in your tree stand has me chuckling. Good point.

Yes, there is a lot to be said for cartridge choice, bullet choice, and shot placement, plus a measure of luck. I don't think bears have magic bullet repellent, but they do seem to get cranky when shot, and to fight ferociously while dying.

A friend tells the story of his friend who was set upon by a cranky bear. His hunting companion put a broadhead through the bear as the bear chased his victim through camp. The victim whipped out a knife, which was all he had, and counterattacked the bear, which was still very much alive and dangerous. When the dust settled, the bear was dead, the victim could see through one of his hands, and the victim's boot was full of blood. Turned out that it was bear blood. The broadhead had done its work, but the bear was still still fighting in spite of being in the process of dying from blood loss.

I doubt that the fact that such attacks are rare was much comfort to the victim. Well, or the bear either, for that matter.

My theory is to stay the heck away from bears whenever possible. They can usually be shooed away like a big dog, which is to say that works except when it doesn't.

 

[22-rimfire]

Heading to the Smoky Mts this week... hope I see some bruins.

Not planning on walking up on a bear and patting its heard or scratching its ears.

 

[captain awesome]

Defense against black bear

you need a minimum of a 500 S&W magnum loaded with 700gr bullets going at least 1200 FPS to bring down one of those monsters. Any thing less and you might as well wear a platter on your back and lay down on it when you see one.

In all seriousness, a hot 357 loaded with hard cast, flat point, wide meplat, heavy bullets is fine.

 

[Cee Zee]

Actually black bear attacks are a LOT less rare than they were a couple of decades ago. It is clearly due to the number of black bears skyrocketing in certain areas of the country. In the 2000's there were actually 16 fatal black bear attacks in North America. There have been 3 more in the 2010's so far. That number is a huge increase in what was ever seen before. Even during pioneer days bears rarely killed people because they could retreat easily. Now with a lot of bears around and a lot less space to run you get cornered and desperate bears attacking people for self defense and as a food source for aging and unhealthy bears.

Check out the chart on this page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_bear_attacks_in_North_America

Yes I know it's Wikipedia but check out the sources listed. There are 193 footnotes. Most of them can be checked on the net.

Bear attacks are still rare. But bears are dangerous animals. The best defenses against bears IMO are dogs, anything that makes noise (pie pans on strings, chimes, firecrackers, bottle rockets, etc.). I have a lot of bear around where I live. I have one now that is marking its turf at the back corner of my house every night. I'm going to have to catch it out there and scare it away. But the bear here will come in and eat my dog's food, they will stand down wind of my grill and chomp their teeth when I grill out, they have been into my neighbor's grain for his cattle, they have stood 30 yards away and not flinched until I got out the firecrackers, and they leave all sorts of signs (droppings, marked trees, scratch marks on the ground) plus they killed at least one of my cats and maybe two. I've seen where they have killed squirrels and taken one bite out of them and left them (and it was a huge bite) and I've seen where they have killed deer. A local state park turned 500 bear loose in this area in one year. So the gubmit is making sure we have lots of them around. They keep the deer population down and maybe that's good because deer going through windshields are a lot more of a danger than a bear attack. Still I would suggest being prepared for anything and learning how to deal with bears trying to get over on you. Seal your trash tight. Use a 12 ga. or at least a .44 magnum IMO for potential bear attacks. I don't worry about being attacked but I carry a weapon at night when I can't see what's going on as well. And I don't use normal ammo. I use stuff like Black Magic slugs for my 12 ga., which are rated for dangerous game and I use Buffalo Bore hard cast bullets in my .44 mag. And yes I bought the .44 for the bears. I could have bought a .357 just as easy and cheaper. But I wanted to be sure because likely as not you will only get one shot. I sometimes carry my 30.06 around on my ATV for protection also. But most bears can be scared off fairly easy if you have the nerve to do it. If you don't, call the game warden.

And for the guy who lives in the Appalachian Mtns. I agree that attacks are rare but there have been some fatal attacks in these mountains recently. And I was stalked by a bear there too. I live in the same mountains BTW.

 

[coyotemoon]

Have cans of WASP Nest Killer spray in various locations that are easy to reach. It reaches out to 30 feet and will stop a bear in its tracks.

 

[Ehtereon11B]

I have gone on many a bear hunt and hikes through bear areas. The thought of using any type of spray to repel a bear always seemed useless to me. Granted bear attacks are uncommon and most bear attacks I have heard of were the bear attacking bear hunters. Nevertheless I usually carry a handgun while hunting and hiking to take care of most critters that I might have to deal with. Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.

 

[mf-dif]

Carry around a Drago while puttin around your property. That will stop any bear.

 

[Cee Zee]

I'm sure the wasp spray would work if you hit the bear in a sensitive area like the eyes or the mouth or the nose. But the bear spray that works best shoots out in a mist instead of a stream. I used to be a mail man. I know how hard it is to hit a moving animal in the sensitive areas with a stream. We were given spray for dogs. It's almost impossible to hit them when they're moving around. It's hard to hit them when they're sitting still because you have to adjust your spray after you first start spraying and that makes the dog move to avoid the spray. I'd say lots of chemicals will stop a bear if you can hit them in the right spot. Heck a can of spray pain might do better because you could paint their eyes and make them blind for a while and it comes out as a spray instead of a stream. And that's the real ticket is being able to hit them in a good spot in a big hurry.

 

[hso]

This may be a true statement, but the number of incidents are becoming far more common

Incorrect.

There are 2 on record in 2011, 1 in 2009, 1 in 2006, 1 in 2006, 2 in 2005.
Why do people let their private fears cause them to make things up that can be so easily fact checked?

 

[paintballdude902]

my bear gun for hunting them is a .45-70 guide gun. my for defense (never carried a special gun for bear defense) would be a 12ga pump/semi alternating slug/000 buck shot

 

[JShirley]

You know, THR's mission is to show gun owners at their best.

Jokes about outrunning your friends or shooting them so the bear doesn't get you are NOT the way to convince anyone that gun owners might actually be decent people.

John

 

[Alaska444]

Incorrect.

There are 2 on record in 2011, 1 in 2009, 1 in 2006, 1 in 2006, 2 in 2005.
Why do people let their private fears cause them to make things up that can be so easily fact checked?

Dear hso,

With all due respect, bear attacks are on the rise. You are quoting data for fatal bear attacks. The quote you looked at included fatal and nonfatal attacks in his area.

jmr40

This may be a true statement, but the number of incidents are becoming far more common. There have been 2 of those deaths and multiple attacks within a 100 mile radius, within 10 years, and within a 3 hour drive of were I live. I'm aware of at least a dozen incidents in East TN and North GA just in the last few years. Most of which never made the news. Over a 100 year period the number may be irrelevent, but over the last 10 years it certainly is not.

Scientists have looked at this issue and they do conclude that bear attacks are rising in number.

A 2008 survey by Hristienko and Linda Olver, Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources bear ecologist, showed human-bear encounters rising in 20 of the 26 states either bordering or east of the Mississippi River. As bear habitat and populations have expanded, human-bear encounters have become more common in cities as disparate as Longwood, Fla., where last year a black bear was caught swimming in a family's hot tub; to Missoula, where one was captured after trying to enter the city's airport.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-03-08/yellowstone-bears-tourists/53556208/1

Beware of Predatory Male American Black Bears: Attack Rates Are Rising With Human Population Growth

"We didn't demonstrate why population growth is correlated with more bear attacks but we suspect it is because there are more people pursuing recreational and commercial activities in black bear habitat," Herrero said. "Similarly, we don't know exactly why there have been more attacks in Canada and Alaska, but we speculate that it could be because bears in those areas are living in less productive habitat with periodic food stress, which may predispose some bears to consider people as prey."

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/05/110511074807.htm

So yes, the scientific data demonstrates increasing bear encounters and increasing bear attacks rising in conjunction with the human population growth. Once again, rare, but real. And yes, increasing in frequency.

 

[Alaska444]

Dr Herroro's study changed the perception that sows with cubs caused the majority of fatal attacks, but instead, Dr. Herror found that the majority of black bear fatal attacks are predatory male black bears. Rare, but real, I believe it is just prudent to prepare for the rare event in case you become one of those statistics. You can listen to an interview with Dr. Herrero discussing his findings:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kjuMqCL6kk

Once again, folks don't disparage posts/thread talking about preparing for self defense situations with two legged predators, but seem to disparage the same type of threads discussing bear attack situations. Sorry, I don't get it. Living up in northern Idaho, I carry daily to defend my family and myself but in reality, I am much more likely to have encounters with four legged critters while out in the woods up here.

 

[Cee Zee]

Boy that's some way to "moderate" a discussion. I got my facts from a place that I listed HSO. I didn't make up anything. The guy documented every kill on his list. Maybe the difference is North American attack, which I what I referenced, and US attacks. But since you missed the link the first time here it is again.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_bear_attacks_in_North_America

 

[22-rimfire]

Based on the number of bear threads on this forum, it is a pretty common topic and there is a fear involved. Once you see a bear up close and watch how quickly they can move, or if you handle say a calf (100 lbs) and realize how strong they are, it is easy to transfer that information to black bears which are predatory to a certain degree.

Pick up a wild house cat and they can certainly rip you up. Transfer that information to a mountain lion and you have fear because you know they could do 100 times more damage than that little house cat.

But still, fatal human encounters are pretty rare.

 

[Alaska444]

Boy that's some way to "moderate" a discussion. I got my facts from a place that I listed HSO. I didn't make up anything. The guy documented every kill on his list. Maybe the difference is North American attack, which I what I referenced, and US attacks. But since you missed the link the first time here it is again.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_bear_attacks_in_North_America

If you compare the data from the 1990's to the decade of the 2000's, there were 8 black bear attacks in the first set in the 1990's and 16 in the second. That is a 100% absolute increase based on gross numbers.

For brown bears, we have had 5 attacks in 2 years this decade so far which is already nearly half of the total from the prior decade. Yes, there is objective evidence of increasing fatal bear attacks. Herrero's study is quite interesting in that 80% of the attacks in 110 years took place since 1969. In addition, the description of predatory male black bear behavior is truly an important knowledge factor for folks who spend time in the woods to know. The quiet, stalking black bear is more dangerous than the nervous bear snapping its jaws and growling and stamping the ground. The silent and slowly approaching bear is the more dangerous beast statistically.

 

[Cee Zee]

Before I get kicked off the board for daring to have an opinion and a list of facts that contradict someone else's list I thought I'd throw in another list since they're so easy to check.

Bear attacks in North America listed as 19 in the 2000's:
http://jasperwildlife.com/Fatal-Bear-Attacks-in-North-America-Jasper-Wildlife.html

I have no idea how accurate these lists are BTW. I just know I did NOT make this stuff up. I said clearly it was a Wikipedia list I referenced and that the person had 193 footnotes mostly linking to news reports about the attacks and most of the easily checked on the net. Whether this info is accurate or not is on someone else. But to flat out accuse me of making it up out of fear is over the top. And I talked about having all sorts of bears in my yard but it hasn't made me move or take any extreme actions unless you count tossing a pack of firecrackers at a bear as extreme. I've had two cats killed by bears. Both were within 30 feet of my yard at the time. I've had bear signs in my yards for years. I can take some photos of droppings in my back yard right now and I can prove it was left by a bear (there's deer fur in it). So how it is that's I'm so scared I make things up is beyond me. I've seen bear all over the place in my area. I have photos of me feeding bears in the Smokey's (from a long, long time ago) with the bear not more than 20 feet away. The bear then followed me to my truck and stuck it's paw in my partially rolled down window. I have photos. Yeah I'm scared to death of bears. In fact I'm probably reckless to the extreme when it comes to bears. If anyone else has a bear paw stuck through a window photo I'd like to see it. I'll be glad to find mine but it may take a little while. I can find photos of bear sign in my yard very quickly though.

The quiet, stalking black bear is more dangerous than the nervous bear snapping its jaws and growling and stamping the ground. The silent and slowly approaching bear is the more dangerous beast statistically.

That is certainly true. And I've dealt with both. I had a bear in Virginia along Pine Mtn. stalk me and my wife for about 75 yards walking just on the other side of some thick brush (mountain laurel) and the closer we got to a choke point on a trail the closer the bear got. It got within maybe 15 feet of us just as we were about to head down a narrow ledge to a wider section on the mountain below. I could smell the bear plainly at the time and I had been hearing it all along. I had seen fresh droppings from that morning just a few minutes earlier. And they have had a big problem with tourists feeding bears in that area so clearly the bear was looking for a handout. Instead I turned and walked away slowly and loudly. You can ask my wife how scared I was at the time. I can guarantee she will tell you I never broke a sweat even though I didn't have a single gun with me since it was in a park. I won't make that mistake again.

 

[hso]

The Hristienko/Olver survey was on all encounters and didn't focus on attacks, just encounters. They didn't attempt to address attacks.

The article in Wildlife Management is about fatal bear attacks and not simply attacks. The information I used was also only on fatal black bear attacks.

Note that only 14 fatal black bear attacks are identified for the "lower 48 states" between 1900 and 2009. 14 in 100 years! You may see an increase simply because of better reporting and record-keeping in later decades as well as more frequent encounter opportunities as people intrude and encroach on black bear habitat as American population increases and spreads from urban areas.

The abstract is below -

Abstract
At least 63 people were killed in 59 incidents by non-captive black bear (Ursus americanus) during 1900–2009. Fatal black bear attacks occurred in Canada and Alaska (n = 49) and in the lower 48 states (n = 14). There were 3.5 times as many fatal attacks in Canada and Alaska but only 1.75 times as many black bears, and much less human contact for black bears in Canada and Alaska. There was a weak positive correlation (rs = 0.56, P ≤ 0.000) between the estimated size of a bear population within a given jurisdiction and the number of fatal black bear attacks. Some jurisdictions had no fatal black bear attacks but had large estimated black bear populations. Of fatal attacks, 86% (54 of 63, 1.08/yr) occurred between 1960 and 2009. There was positive linear relationship between the number of fatal black bear attacks per decade and human population size in the United States and Canada per decade (r2 = 0.92, β = 0.000, P ≤ 0.001). Of fatal attacks, 91% (49 of 54) occurred on parties of 1 or 2 persons. In 38% (15 of 40) of incidents, peoples' food or garbage probably influenced the bear being in the attack location. We judged that the bear involved acted as a predator in 88% (49 of 56) of fatal incidents. Adult (n = 23) or subadult (n = 10) male bears were involved in 92% (33 of 36) of fatal predatory incidents, reflecting biological and behavioral differences between male and female bears. That most fatal black bear attacks were predatory and were carried out by 1 bear shows that females with young are not the most dangerous black bears. As a result of our research agencies managing black bear can more accurately understand the risk of being killed by a black bear, and can communicate this to the public. With training, people can learn to recognize the behaviors of a bear considering them as prey and can act to deter predation. © 2011 The Wildlife Society.

Since this study is about fatal bear attacks and the Olver survey was about increasing encounters, not attacks or fatal attacks, I'm not sure what the point is in trying to characterize them as discussing all or non fatal attacks. You have to go back to the source material instead of reporting on the studies to avoid inaccurate characterization of the research.

 

[Alaska444]

The Hristienko/Olver survey was on all encounters and didn't focus on attacks, just encounters. They didn't attempt to address attacks.

The article in Wildlife Management is about fatal bear attacks and not simply attacks. The information I used was also only on fatal black bear attacks.

Note that only 14 fatal black bear attacks are identified for the "lower 48 states" between 1900 and 2009. 14 in 100 years! You may see an increase simply because of better reporting and record-keeping in later decades as well as more frequent encounter opportunities as people intrude and encroach on black bear habitat as American population increases and spreads from urban areas.

The abstract is below -


Since this study is about fatal bear attacks and the Olver survey was about increasing encounters, not attacks or fatal attacks, I'm not sure what the point is in trying to characterize them as discussing all or non fatal attacks. You have to go back to the source material instead of reporting on the studies to avoid inaccurate characterization of the research.

Dear hso, once again with all due respect, both articles I quoted refer to increasing encounters from increasing human population, that was the connection. Source material is always best as you state. That is why I placed the link directly to Dr. Herrero's interview.

While rare, bear attacks are increasing and our knowledge of them is also increasing. The take home message from Herrero is that aggressive bears need to be removed from the area, hopefully by a permanent solution and that you should be prepared for predatory black bear attacks if you live in bear country.

We just had another predatory black bear attack a couple of weeks ago in Montana. What is the point? Yes, you should consider black bear defense above and beyond pepper spray if you live in bear country. I'm not sure why anyone would disagree with that conclusion.

 

[Cee Zee]

The list was described as a fatal attacks list in the title of the article on Wikipedia. And I also referenced black bear attacks in my post. The second survey included brown bear attacks.

I make no claims for the accuracy of these stats btw but the truth is I've seen several reports that indicate a big increase in attacks. Locally there has been an increase in attacks as well if you count a 4 state region as a local area. Kentucky, Tenn, NC and Virginia would be the area I'm talking about. The thing that makes me think the reports on increased attacks is accurate is the booming population of bears in this area. Everywhere I go there are bear reserves, problems with people feeding bears, state parks releasing 500 bears in a summer (that was 20 miles from where I live and 2 miles from my farm), etc. plus there's the amazing jump in the number of bears I've seen personally. I see them where I live and I see them on my farm. I've seen an incredible increase in signs where it's obvious that bears are hanging around. There are photos in the newspaper, dead bears on the highways, bear signs in my yard and bears in my yard doing things they would never have done 20 years ago. It just made sense to me that the number of attacks would increase given the number of new bears around. But again those aren't my stats and I make no claims about their accuracy.