Defense without semiauto?

[WestKentucky]

I had a fun conversation today at work. Guy was frustrated with some magazine he was reading and how they only talked about the various AR15 guns for personal defense, and then proceeded to ramble on about how if it’s not the AR it’s some other ugly plastic semiauto.

I looked over and asked him what rifle he would pick if he were building or buying a defense gun, which started the conversation on a great track.

My argument was for the marlin 336 carbine. Light enough, handy enough, plenty accurate, fast, only downside is capacity, so I opted to change my choice to a marlin in 357 mag. I continued... to lighten the rifle and make it handier, synthetic collapsible stock, side mounted light, vertical fore grip, side-saddle to carry extra rounds.

My coworker agreed, however he argued for the Winchester rather than marlin. We both agreed that buying one today would push us to the Rossi. He did very briefly kick around the idea of a magazine fed pump, but without any good options he gave that up pretty quickly.

So, assuming semi-autos are not acceptable, what do you do? I know, 12 ga shotgun is very sensible, but we’re talking rifles...well...defensive carbines.

 

[Varminterror]

Had an 1894 44mag by my bed for many years. Couldn’t convince me a Win is a better defensive rifle than a Marlin, and the extra capacity over the 336 is compelling.

 

[KansasSasquatch]

HHe did very briefly kick around the idea of a magazine fed pump, but without any good options he gave that up pretty quickly.

So, assuming semi-autos are not acceptable, what do you do? I know, 12 ga shotgun is very sensible, but we’re talking rifles...well...defensive carbines.

Eh-hemmmm, is this not an acceptable example? http://www.remingtonle.com/rifles/7615.htm

 

[BlueHeelerFl]

I had considered getting one of those 7615's years ago. Are they a LE only product or could anyone order one?

 

[KansasSasquatch]

I had considered getting one of those 7615's years ago. Are they a LE only product or could anyone order one?

I believe (but not 100% positive) the 7615P was marked LE Only but that doesn't really stop a dealer from selling to the public. I do believe there were other 7615 models that accepted AR magazines that were not marked LE Only. I haven't seen one in person in years. For all I know Remington has discontinued the whole line. Looks like they're going for about $800 on gunbroker, much more than I'd be willing to pay unless semi-auto weren't legal.

 

[Dr.Rob]

Marlin 1894 if I couldn't have a semi auto. 44 mag might be a tad 'much' in penetration but one look down the muzzle might be persuasive.

 

[herrwalther]

Defensive rifle, not an AR. And not plastic. Or semi auto. That certainly limits the options greatly. A lever gun in a standard revolver caliber (357 and 44mag at a stretch) would be my first choice for ammo availability. A bolt action, lower caliber with a detachable magazine would be a distant second choice.

 

[js8588]

They do make pump action AR-style rifles. One suppressed in 450 BM/458 SoCom would get it done.

Of the guns I own, my Henry 327 Federal lever gun would do okay. 10 in the mag.

 

[Dr.Rob]

Remington did the 760 action in a 5.56. Works like an 870. Honestly in a pump gun, rather have a shotgun. But that thing uses AR mags.

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

It sounds like your friends main objection to an AR is based on aesthetics and image rather than legal complications or capability. That being the case, why not one of the many nice wood and steel semi-autos, such as the SKS or M1 carbine?

But if a self-loader is definitely out, I agree with Dr.Rob, a 7600 in .223.

 

[GunnyUSMC]

A bolt gun is nice, but a lever or pump action would be better. I have a Marlin 1894 in 357 Mag that has filled in as a home defense gun over the years.

 

[Bfh_auto]

I already have a Rossi 357. I would just load it with 38+p critical defense and be done.

 

[MedWheeler]

Would the conversation have gone differently if some "not-so-plastic-and-ugly" options had been mentioned that were still semi-automatic? It seems his issue was more about plastic "AR-types" than with the action itself.

I can't imagine him thinking a Mini-14 or M1 carbine is "ugly" (or even a SKS if he detests detachable magazines.)

But, for the hypothetical "no-autoloaders" scenario, I really do like that Remington above. In the "real world" in which I live, I'd likely follow those who mention a lever gun in .357 Magnum.

 

[wombat13]

Marlin 1894 in .44 mag is what I bought when the People’s Republic NY banned full featured ARs. Chose it for the reasons above and I already owned a Ruger Super Blackhawk.

 

[FL-NC]

AR or pump shotgun for me, thanks.

 

[rb288]

If no semi auto, then I go with my Rossi in 45 Colt.

 

[wanderinwalker]

If a semi-auto is definitely out, then I'd turn to one of the Marlin 1894s in .357 or .44 Magnum. I had an 1894 in .44 Mag for years, and it handled .44 Special just fine. Put a lot of rounds through that rifle and it never skipped a beat.

If the objection to a semi-auto is because of some negative connotation of the standard black-furnitured AR type rifle, a Mini-14 or M-1 Carbine will work fine as well.

 

[chicharrones]

I've passed over a .357 lever gun more than once because I got a semi-auto something else instead.

If I didn't want a semi-auto for this role, I'd be back at a .357 lever or pump gun of some sort. Preferably, a remake of the Timber Wolf carbine.

 

[jmorris]

Defense against what?

I use an LCP or 1911 with shot loads most often for getting rid of poisonous snakes.

Any number of rifles work fine for coyotes from .22’s on up.

Hogs, if not in a trap, I prefer to go up starting around 30-30 to 357 max levels but other stuff can kill them too.

For the invasion that won’t ever make it to my neck of the woods, I guess I’d grab the belt fed 308 for starters.

 

[entropy]

I had considered getting one of those 7615's years ago. Are they a LE only product or could anyone order one?

They can if they can find one. They were discontinued after a short run, and are much sought after. I'd have to go with my Win. 94 for purposes of discussion, but it would be what it is, even though I have AR's; My Ithaca 37 12 ga.

 

[jmr40]

I don't see AR's going anywhere. But if they were to be banned something like this would be my pick on a limited budget.

https://ruger.com/products/americanRifleRanch/specSheets/26965.html
https://ruger.com/products/americanRiflePredator/specSheets/26974.html

Or with deeper pockets this, or something similar.

https://ruger.com/products/scoutRifle/specSheets/6830.html

I own several Marlin and Winchester lever guns in both 30-30 and pistol calibers. They would stay in the safe. A bolt action "scout" type rifle is lighter, cheaper, cheaper to shoot, more accurate, more reliable, more powerful, much faster to reload, and every bit as fast for "AIMED" repeat shots. Even for un-aimed shots the difference is insignificant. I've shot against a stopwatch before and can get off 3 shots with a bolt gun in under 2 seconds. With a lever action it was closer to 1.5 seconds in pistol calibers, 1.8 seconds for 30-30. I don't see less than .5 seconds for 3 shots to be much of a handicap. And when shooting at paper plates at 50 yards with the requirement that all 3 shots must hit the paper plate I did a little better with the bolt gun. Both took right at 4 seconds.

the marlin 336 carbine. Light enough, handy enough,

People "assume" lever guns are light and handy. Put it on some postal scales. My Marlin 30-30's are the heaviest rifles in my safe. I used to own a 300 magnum that equaled the weight, but sold it. All my other bolt guns in non-magnum calibers are up to 2 lbs lighter than the Marlin. My Winchester 94 is almost 1/2 lb lighter than the Marlin, but still heavier than about 1/2 of my bolt guns.

The military seriously considered lever guns over 100 years ago and came to the same conclusions. Plus in order to operate the lever, or pump requires the shooter to either stand or sit up and be exposed to enemy fire.


Pumps offer some advantages over levers. But not enough to win me over.

 

[Sarge7402]

I already have a Rossi 357. I would just load it with 38+p critical defense and be done.

My Rossi is currently in 45 colt 8 rounds of the best stopping pistol round of the 19th thru eraly 20th century

 

[huntsman]

I've passed over a .357 lever gun more than once because I got a semi-auto something else instead.

If I didn't want a semi-auto for this role, I'd be back at a .357 lever or pump gun of some sort. Preferably, a remake of the Timber Wolf carbine.

Timber Wolf was one of the few gun regrets I have, I got close to buying when they were in production but another gun always seemed to lure me away. I guess it was a want but not a need.

Never being a rifle guy in 1999 I bought an Enfield for Y2K about a year later I sold and got a 336w cheap and that was my only SD rifle till I gave it to my Son to hunt with. Now that Ohio has allowed straight wall rifle cartridges for deer I’m seriously thinking about another lever gun for hunting and SD.

 

[ponchh]

If no semi-auto, I would go full-auto

 

[Zaydok Allen]

A lever gun in 357 or 44 would be my choice. Seems logical. I've shot my Henry and I find it very quick on follow up shots. It's not the one I'd choose for home defense, but the premise is the same.