Denied CC for night class, WW(you)D?

What should we do?

  • Carry anyway, they'll never know unless you need it, and your life is worth more than expulsion.

    Votes: 116 61.7%
  • Bug them 'til they see that this is an extraordinary situation-your wife, alone on campus, at night!

    Votes: 24 12.8%
  • Keep carrying OC spray like she has been, maybe take a self defense class.

    Votes: 26 13.8%
  • Other [explain below]

    Votes: 22 11.7%

  • Total voters
    188
Status
Not open for further replies.
The first thing she said was "I don't care, I'm carrying a gun if I have to go to a class at night."
This was her opinion of what she should do last time we talked about it. I haven't had a chance to talk to her since I sent her a link to this post so she could see what other people thought. I think she would look forward to the extra time we could spend together if she would allow me to walk with her to and from the class. I've seen how much time and hard work she has invested in going to school (4.0 every semester so far for 3 years), and would hate for that to be lost because of violating a policy we don't agree with.
 
Posted by willbrink:
Depends on the state. In MA for example (I know, shocking...) it is a law vs just school policy. Don't know what the law is in his state vs school policy, but always best to know.
But this thread isn't about various states... It is about Kentucky, in which it isn't illegal for her to carry on campus.
 
I hate to see this at UK because I'm an alum--twice. But, contrary to most who have posted, get over your paranoia! She's taking classes. She doesn't need to carry a gun; she needs pen & paper. Being so paranoid that you (or your wife) think you need a gun to go to class is absolutely ridiculous, and I don't think it does any good for the public image of us avid shooters, hunters, and gun nuts--and I damn sure am one. Indeed, it works to the contrary.
 
I hate to see this at UK because I'm an alum--twice. But, contrary to most who have posted, get over your paranoia! She's taking classes. She doesn't need to carry a gun; she needs pen & paper. Being so paranoid that you (or your wife) think you need a gun to go to class is absolutely ridiculous, and I don't think it does any good for the public image of us avid shooters, hunters, and gun nuts--and I damn sure am one. Indeed, it works to the contrary.
Yeah, I am not sure what he is thinking... No one would ever need to protect themselves while walking the UK campus in the evening... :scrutiny:


A 19-year-old University of Kentucky sophomore was sexually assaulted Tuesday night as she was walking through a William T. Young Library parking lot, UK police said.

The woman was sexually assaulted in the lot at the corner of Woodland and Columbia Avenues between 9 and 10 p.m., police said.
 
I can think of no oath worth taking that would require me to allow my family or myself to become victims of violent criminals. Any oath that would require this denies my integrity and honor.

ECS
 
I can think of no oath worth taking that would require me to allow my family or myself to become victims of violent criminals. Any oath that would require this denies my integrity and honor.

Well, since in most cases the school requires people to agree to it, a refusal to do so would invalidate one's status as a student, in which case they would have no reason to go on campus, and the problem fixes itself. :)
 
Feud, I'm going to ty and remain as High Road as I can while saying this. You have done the same so far, and I commend you for it.

There is no such thing as a fair fight. There is no honor and glory in dying, unless you went out in defense of something you believed
in.

I don't believe that any school that I PAY TO ATTEND has the right to tell me how I can and can't defend myself any more than they could tell me what church to go to or whom to marry. I also don't believe any governemnt has the same right... to place restrictions on my self defense.

You think those amish girls that got slaughtered died "honorably"? They died like animals, slaughtered by some maniac who is still breathing only because society thinks we should be "decent" enough to not gut-shoot him and watch him twitch and writhe in pain like a worm on hot asphalt.

And as far as protection of loved ones go, I would burn in Hell for all eternity if I knew it would give my wife and son just a fleeting chance at safety. I'd give my life for either of them, and thank the Good Lord that he gave me the opportunity to do so.

So, with that kind of devotion, which you admittedly have yet to experience, how do you think I feel about anyone who tries to tell me to "follow the rules" if I think it even has a remotely possible negative impact on our safety?

When human lives are at stake, their is no such thing as a fair fight. There's winners, who get to go home, eat dinner, sleep in thier own beds, and enjoy the rest of their lives; and losers, who end up in a pine box, 6 feet underground.

You think it's "honorable" to die at the hands of a violent assailant as long as you were following some BS rule, pulled from the arse of some pencil-necked twit, for the sake of political correctness?

That's a whole new kind of sick, brother.

It's all about priorities... and lemme tell you, my loyalties to college administrative regulations are pretty damn low on the heirarchy.
 
You think it's "honorable" to die at the hands of a violent assailant as long as you were following some BS rule, pulled from the arse of some pencil-necked twit, for the sake of political correctness?

I think it is "honorable" to live one's life according to the values that they believe in, and I think it is "honorable" to maintain those values to the end, regardless of how or when that end comes.

I don't think it is right, however, to toss aside those values on the basis that something, somewhere, sometime, may or may not happen that may or may not put someone I care about in a situation that may or may not be bad. Of course there are exceptions in dire situations, as I said before, but a hypothetical isn't grounds enough in my book.

I really don't care what rules a school puts in place, I would bet that for every one of UK's rules that people here think are inane I could provide two from my own. What I do care about is what kind of life I lead, and since I agreed to do something when I came I will do it. Life is too short and eternity too long to sacrifice my integrity over a simple matter of safety (or in many cases of my school's rules, convenience).

If you didn't agree to that rule, and it's not against the law, then feel free to carry a weapon while you go to pick your wife/daughter up, I really don't care. Or, if you/they feel that physical safety is more important than any potential consequences, then I really can't stop you.
 
Let's put this in perspective....chance that someone is going to bust open into a lecture hall and start shooting at you....is less than your chance of getting hit by a lightning, certainly a LOT less than a chance that you are going to get killed in a motor vehicle accident on the way to work.

You decide what you want to do....risk getting expelled from school for this negligible risk and carry a weapon....transfer to a different school that allows CCW....

The fact that this is a public school makes it a bit tricky, but as far as private schools are concerned, it's like going to someone else's house. If they don't want you to carry a wepon in their house, you should respect their wish. If you don't feel comfortable, then leave, go somewhere else.

Now don't get me wrong, I am a CCW-carrying-lifetime-NRA-member, but I just don't think we need to push this issue too far, and the thought of bunch of 18 year-olds carrying CCW in classes in college is not a pretty one IMHO. When my kids go to college, I'm not sure if I want them to carry a weapon to class...I'd be a LOT MORE worried that they are going to get in a car wreck, because statistically speaking, that's a LOT more likely to happen. If you are worried about kids/wife getting shot in lecture hall, then you shouldn't let them drive by the same logic, it's an overinflated fear. My wife doesn't like guns and can't get her to learn to shoot...what can I do, but I let her drive, which is a lot more dangerous thing than not carrying a weapon...there is so much we can do in this world.
 
Posted by lvcat2004:
the thought of bunch of 18 year-olds carrying CCW in classes in college
Who mentioned lowering the permit age, in relation to campus carry?

I feel that if a 21 year old adult is responsible enough to carry everywhere else, then they are responsible enough to carry to a college classroom.
 
I attended a small university in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. For those of you unfamiliar with this area, it is an extremely friendly community with little violent crime. One night as I was leaving a class, walking through the middle of campus, I heard a shotgun blast that sounded very close. Knowing some of the locals and students it seemed like no big deal.

The next day I found out one of my classmates was shot by her whacked out husband.

Killed by a single shotgun blast to the abdomen August 25, 1997, by her estranged husband, David E. Kuster, age 43. He sat in his pickup for over an hour waiting for her to return to her car after attending the first day of classes at Northern Michigan University. A Personal Protection Order was found in her purse. It was not enough to protect her from being stalked and murdered.


Obviously this was an act of domestic violence and not random. If she had been able to carry, (Michigan at this time did not have the same right to carry laws as it does now) knowing her husband was a violent person, she may have been able to defend herself.

Unfortunately, this is a perfect example of how an escort would be of no help.
 
I attended a small university in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. For those of you unfamiliar with this area, it is an extremely friendly community with little violent crime. One night as I was leaving a class, walking through the middle of campus, I heard a shotgun blast that sounded very close. Knowing some of the locals and students it seemed like no big deal.

The next day I found out one of my classmates was shot by her whacked out husband.

Killed by a single shotgun blast to the abdomen August 25, 1997, by her estranged husband, David E. Kuster, age 43. He sat in his pickup for over an hour waiting for her to return to her car after attending the first day of classes at Northern Michigan University. A Personal Protection Order was found in her purse. It was not enough to protect her from being stalked and murdered.


Obviously this was an act of domestic violence and not random. If she had been able to carry, (Michigan at this time did not have the same right to carry laws as it does now) knowing her husband was a violent person, she may have been able to defend herself.

Unfortunately, this is a perfect example of how an escort would be of no help.
 
But don't forget.. If she had carried a concealed weapon, protected herself from her husband, saved her own life, and gone on to live a happy, productive life, she would have done so at the cost of her integrity for choosing to disobery a school rule. :barf::banghead:
 
We now know how much the life of a student is worth, at least in the quiet well-furnished offices of the administration of Virginia Tech and the state government of Virginia. See the article appended below, if you haven't heard the specific figure yet.

This is the sort of thing you face. I wish it wasn't so, but there it is. All the best to both of you dealing with it.

lpl/nc
===========================

http://www1.wsvn.com/news/articles/national/MI81039/

Va. offers Tech shooting victims' families $100,000 each, chance for questions in settlement

RICHMOND, Va. (AP) -- Families of those killed in the Virginia Tech shootings have until March 31 to say whether they'll accept a settlement that would include $100,000 each and the chance to question the governor and university officials about the shooting, a victim's relative said.

Families of the 32 killed would also receive medical and counseling expenses, said the relative, who asked Monday to remain anonymous because those involved were told not to discuss the settlement. Additional funds would be set aside for the dozens of survivors.

In exchange for accepting the agreement, the family members would give up the right to sue state government, including Virginia Tech, said the relative.

Under the deal, Gov. Timothy M. Kaine would meet with victims and relatives three more times over the next two years to review legislative and administrative responses to the shootings.

Victims and families also could meet with senior Virginia Tech officials within six months of the settlement to ask questions and discuss changes made to the campus since the tragedy, as well as memorials. They also would receive an update on the investigation from the university and state police.

Seung-Hui Cho, a mentally disturbed student, killed the 32 victims and wounded several others at Virginia Tech on April 16 before committing suicide.

At least 20 families have filed notice with the state that they may sue. They have until April 16 to file.

Attorneys for families and officials in the governor's office did not immediately return calls from The Associated Press.

"My people are pretty unhappy with it, and I don't blame them," Edward Jazlowiecki, a lawyer for the family of slain student Henry Lee, told The Virginian-Pilot of Norfolk.

Jazlowiecki said Lee's family faults Virginia Tech for not warning those on campus sooner that a gunman may be loose.

Cho shot his first two victims in a dormitory just after 7 a.m., but university officials did not send an e-mail alert until more than two hours later -- just before Cho killed 30 others in a classroom building across campus.

The proposal would require all claimants to agree and says the state can withdraw the proposal if not enough parties do, the family member said. Other relatives declined to comment.

In addition to the $100,000 payments to each of the families of those killed, another $800,000 would be reserved for the injured, with a maximum of $100,000 to any person.

The proposal also would set up a fund to reimburse or advance expenses not covered by insurance for medical, psychological and psychiatric care for victims and their immediate families.

In October, the families and surviving victims received payments ranging from $11,500 to $208,000 from the Hokie Spirit Memorial Fund, set up in the days after the April 16 shootings to handle donations that poured into the Blacksburg school.

The proposed settlement would keep the fund, which had been scheduled to close this past December, open to accept contributions for at least five more years
 
but I just don't think we need to push this issue too far, and the thought of bunch of [bold]21[/bold] year-olds carrying CCW in classes in college is not a pretty one IMHO. When my kids go to college, I'm not sure if I want them to carry a weapon to class...
We're not pushing the issue, THEY are by infringing.

Not a pretty sight? A ground floor classroom with the windows & doors flung wide open to receive the Spring breeze wafting gently around students comfortable and secure in the knowledge that a third of the class (including the prof) possesses a weapon. Nope, it's not pretty, it's beautiful. Unless one is a hoplophile who only sees high cap mags & the potential for death and destruction slung from every hip. Or, to an evil-doer intent on creating harm it would not be a pretty sight at all.

When my daughter goes off to college next year I want her to be as safe as possible. She won't be driving off in the cute little Miata convertible because Mom & Dad will have this solid, safe(er) Volvo S80 for her. Gift horse & all that don'tchaknow. If she wants to take a weapon, a young lady who has been around firearms her entire life, I will encourage her to do so. But then again, I'm one of those who believes that carrying a firearm in the face of potential danger makes one safer, not 1,000 times more likely to be injured/killed with that weapon or automatically endanger every elementary school in a five-mile radius.... But maybe that's just me & my warped perspective.
 
It is interesting the way that those who oppose armed students in a college or university classroom always raise the inflammatory point of “immature, irresponsible 18 to early 20’s students” having guns. Conveniently ignored is the fact that concealed weapons licenses are restricted to those that are 21 years old, and a background check will likely weed out questionable applicants. “What,” one might ask, “about those students that are older, more mature, and sometimes have military service or law enforcement in their past histories?” What is to say that individuals of this kind that volunteered couldn’t go through the state’s law enforcement acadmany (if they hadn’t already have done so) and then be sworn in as special members of the school’s own police department or the county sheriff department? Having been accredited, they would revert to the role of student, but nevertheless be armed. Of course their identities would be kept secret. Potential shooters or campus muggers would be faced the a possibility that their intended attack might be thwarted before it got of the ground, and this would make that particular institution of higher learning a much less attractive target.

It is obvious to anyone with common sense that posting a sign that says, “Our campus is a gun-free zone.” Or writing regulations in the student’s handbook, isn’t going to hinder in any way a determine killer that’s willing to give up their own life in exchange for a chance to make a statement and go out in a blaze of glory. Nor will it discourage a mugger or rapist looking for an easy target.

It is equally clear that the more time the killer has before an armed response arrives, the longer the list of victims will be. It is a proven fact that instant response equals fewer dead and wounded, but decision-makers are determine to insure the killers will have all the time they need.

The sad fact is that the people that run our educational institutions (and that includes their law enforcement forces) don’t have any common sense. Their idea is to build a communication system that will inform everyone on the campus of what is happening within 20 minutes, when the incident will probably be over In 10 or less. By evading the core issue university administrations simply insure a higher body count. And no, there is nothing we can do about it. So long as “educated fools” are in charge the killing will go on, and with the mass media encouraging copycats the incidents will likely increase.
 
Originally posted by Prince Yamamoto: Carry pepper spray and continue to write letters asking that they change the policy. The truth is campuses are relatively safe (though I still wish I could CCW on mine). If you're ever attacked, Pepper Spray gives you a chance to at least temporarily disable your attacker. If/when that ever happens, THEN you sue the school blind. So start looking at what your school's total purse is, figure out crime statistics (most universities publish them). Look at the numbers of total attacks on campus, look at the number of cases solved. If your campus is very dangerous and your wife is attacked, you have a case. You'll probably win the case too. I have a hunch all these campus rules will be shot to hell if Heller goes our way in June, anyway, so you probably have that to look forward to.
All colleges are required by law to publish their crime statistics.
 
For those who are for breaking the rules, does this include other laws people disagree with? If I think weed should be legal should I just go and buy some? If I think I should be able to speed through my neighborhood should I just start cruising around at 75 mph just because? What about if I want to walk around nude at the local park?

You all seem to be forgetting that other factors at work. I would definately go the route of asking for an escort all the time on the campus. I would also suggest asking that all male students ask for one as well.
 
I would definately go the route of asking for an escort all the time on the campus. I would also suggest asking that all male students ask for one as well.
This approach would also, hopefully, open their eyes as to the massive responsibility they have assumed by banning weapons.

For those who are for breaking the rules, does this include other laws people disagree with? If I think weed should be legal should I just go and buy some? If I think I should be able to speed through my neighborhood should I just start cruising around at 75 mph just because? What about if I want to walk around nude at the local park?
Apple, please introduce yourself to Orange... Oh, & ask Ms. Parks to move back a couple of seats.
 
For those who are for breaking the rules, does this include other laws people disagree with? If I think weed should be legal should I just go and buy some? If I think I should be able to speed through my neighborhood should I just start cruising around at 75 mph just because? What about if I want to walk around nude at the local park?
^^^^ Strawman Argument ^^^^^^

1. mis-characterize argument
2. ridicule mis-characterized version (can be implied)
3. repeat 1 and 2
4. declare victory

Works every time. Unless someone points it out.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top