Denied Renewal of My CWP

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Street
Camden, SC 29202
Phone

September 1, 2004

Senator Lindsey O. Graham (and the others who'll get this)
101 E. Washington St., Ste. 220
Greenville, SC 29601

Senator Graham,

I am writing you because I am having some problems dealing with the South Carolina Law Enforcement Division (SLED) and their use of the subjective laws dealing with the issuing of concealed weapons permits (CWP).

I was a valid CWP holder from 05/00-05/04. The reason SLED is denying my renewal is due to excessive speeding tickets in the past. While I admit to having broken the law seven times while driving, my last infraction was in 2001. I am not saying that I was not guilty, but the traffic citations should not legally prohibit me from obtaining a CWP. If my driving history were that big of a determining factor as to whether or not I possessed a CWP, then SLED should have, by law, revoked my right to carry while I still had a permit.

Just so you are fully aware of the circumstances, my driving record includes the following:

· Speeding, 1996
· Speeding, 1997; 2 counts
· Driving too fast for conditions, 1998
· Speeding, 1999
· Speeding, 2001; 2 counts

Again, I admit my guilt, but if I was granted my initial permit in 2000, then why does SLED perceive me as a hazard now when they didn’t do so in 2000 when my initial permit was issued? What number of violations is too many? South Carolina law does not even address traffic violations as a factor in determining whether one is allowed to possess a CWP.

I would also like to state, in my defense, that I have matured significantly and my driving habits have been greatly altered. To illustrate this transformation, I would like for you to review the enclosures I have submitted with this letter. First is a transcript from the University of South Carolina; I am currently enrolled there pursuing a B.A. in Criminal Justice, where afterwards, I hope to pursue a career as a law enforcement officer. In my early years, as my grades reflect, it was clear that I was irresponsible. From the highlighted text, one should be able to recognize a change in my attitude about the things that are important to me. Secondly, there are copies of three different certificates that have been awarded to me by Midlands Technical College – Scholar’s List, Summer Semester, 2003, President’s List, Spring Semester, 2004, and President’s List, Fall Semester, 2004. Lastly, there is a copy of a certificate from AAA’s Driver Improvement Program that I received in March of 2002. I have tried to change my careless ways, and I hope that these enclosures can reassure the fact that I am not as reckless as I use to be.

Back to the topic at hand, other than a "background check," as they would define it, SLED has no legal guidelines for making a recommendation for approval or denial, although rulings can technically be appealed within their brotherhood. SLED makes its own rules, subject only to the type of challenge that I would like to present here:

To note the current law: SLED is required to issue a permit as long as one meets the requirements of 23-31-215(J)(1) through (4):

A permit is valid statewide unless revoked because the person has:

(1) become a person prohibited under state law from possessing a weapon;

(2) moved his permanent residence to another state;

(3) voluntarily surrendered the permit; or

(4) been charged with an offense that, upon conviction, would prohibit the person from possessing a firearm. However, if the person subsequently is found not guilty of the offense, then his permit must be reinstated at no charge.

At no time did I have my permit revoked for any of these reasons nor do any of these reasons pertain to me while trying to have a permit renewed.

Additionally, 23-31-215(B) states the following:

Upon submission of the items required by subsection (A) of this section, SLED must conduct or facilitate a local, state, and federal fingerprint review of the applicant. SLED must also conduct a background check of the applicant through notification to and input from the sheriff of the county where the applicant resides. The sheriff must, within ten working days after notification by SLED, submit a recommendation on an application. Before making a determination whether or not to issue a permit under this article, SLED must consider the recommendation provided pursuant to this subsection. The failure of the sheriff to submit a recommendation within the ten-day period constitutes a favorable recommendation for the issuance of the permit to the applicant. If the fingerprint review and background check are favorable, SLED must issue the permit.

Now, I pose this question since this is what SLED is using as a reason to deny my permit – What exactly does the term “favorable†mean? South Carolina is a “shall issue†state. If SLED can use this term as loosely as they please in this context, then where else can the law use the term “favorable� The word “favorable†is about as subjective as a word can get. If I am being denied because of excessive traffic violations, then it needs to be stated in the law that excessive traffic violations would disqualify an applicant for possessing a valid CWP. If the law listed that as a reason, then I would have no problem with what the law says. Instead, the law is subjective and it is open to interpretation, and this interpretation could be applied towards absolutely anything.

If the law specified what criteria were to be considered in a background check, regulatory discretion could not easily be abused. There should be a truly logical, as well as constitutional, connection between background check criteria and SLED's recommendation. If the law were more explicit, then I would not contest a ruling that fairly applied to my case. Instead, the law allows sole discretion for SLED as a regulator.

SLED's discretion has been necessarily altered before by changing the code language to "shall issue", removing excuses for not issuing licenses. The timeliness of response to applications is also specified in the law, controlling stalling or stonewalling

As current law allows, I can only contest that discretion has been abused and seek to have the decision by SLED overturned.

As a side note, I would like to notify you that state Senator Giese contacted me on August 29, 2004 via telephone. I had previously e-mailed him about my circumstance, and I was all but embarrassed to be a South Carolinian after the way he belittled me. I don’t know what was worse, him telling me that I don’t need to own a gun because I have no reason to, or the fact that he stated, and I quote, “I am, at least, ten times more important than you are, and I don’t need to carry a gun.†That, coming from an elected state official, was deplorable and outrageous.

Anyhow, I thank you for taking the time to read this and I hope and pray that you will address this issue. My hope is that SLED's exercise of discretion in denying my renewal application will be called into question and overturned. If I can be of further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact me.


Sincerely,



USMCsilver

(enclosures: 5)
 
Interesting that perhaps the most telling post in this whole thread is the :neener: from Vermont. That, while some think your application should be denied.
 
the fact that I am not as reckless as I use to be.
Sterling - I think things are covered pretty well .. being a tad pedantic ... this could I think read better if as .....

''the fact that I am no longer'' as reckless as I use to be'' - just sounds more positive IMO.


You know ... since you described that phone call from Senator Giese ... it has been on my mind .. as much as anything because of the incredible, inexcusable .. dammed arrogance ....... it is amazing ... and sure does nothing for his credibility from where I am standing.

Best of luck.:)
 
P95, you are correct and that does sound better. I have changed in my letter.

Again, I would like others to chime in --

Should I wait to see if I am denied again before I send these letters out, or should I go ahead and send them.

I look at it this way, I have a snowball's chance of having my permit wind up in my mailbox within the next 5-7 days; however, if it does show up for some odd reason, then these letters won't need addressing.

However, they do somewhat need to be addressed because of the subjective term "favorable."

Anyhow, send it, or wait?
 
If your license is going to expire while the Chief is "thinking it over", send it now! That's assuming your appeal (to the Chief) went out right away. You need to be sure that the Chief is already against you or that the bureaucracy is going to leave you with no license continuity before the appeal process is completed. When your license expires, you have already been abused. There again that assumes your application was also timely at the beginning of the process.
 
It has already expired. It was done with on May 3, 2004. I had 60 days to submit my renewal stuff. I sent, got denied, appealed w/in the 30 day window, got denied, and appealed w/in the next 30 day window.

If I get rejected, I will have another 30 days to take care of the Administrative Law Judge stuff.
 
I noticed a small typo in the last letter posted, at the end of the 5th paragraph......

I have tried to change my careless ways, and I hope that these enclosures can reassure the fact that I am not as reckless as I use to be.

Should be.......

I have tried to change my careless ways, and I hope that these enclosures can reassure the fact that I am not as reckless as I used to be.
 
I am confused here and wonder if you have added too many steps, perhaps appealing directly back to the source of the rejection.

SC Code:

(D) Denial of an application may be appealed. The appeal must be in writing and state the basis for the appeal. The appeal must be submitted to the Chief of SLED within thirty days from the date the denial notice is received. The chief shall issue a written decision within ten days from the date the appeal is received. An adverse decision shall specify the reasons for upholding the denial and may be reviewed by the Administrative Law Judge Division pursuant to Article 5, Chapter 23 of Title 1, upon a petition filed by an applicant within thirty days from the date of delivery of the division's decision.

************
Apply
-90 day window
Rejection
-30 day window
Appeal to Chief
-10 day window
rejection
-30 day window
Appeal to Administrative Law Judge Division

If you have been denied twice, you should already be talking to the Administrative Law Judge Division. You could get tripped up, because the time allotment has expired. You already know that SLED will not budge, so get on with it.
 
USMC,

Woah, back the bus up a second, I have one question...

"Also, this is bigger than just me -- this is big for the rest of CWP holders across the US. If SC can do this, than anyone can. You may be next; I pray not, but it is possible."

"Again, the issue here is bigger than just me. If the state can start to use their term "favorable" as a subjective means of whether or not they should issue a permit, than anything on a person's record could be used for the consideration of issuing permits in the future."

"As mentioned above, and as mentioned by me several times, this issue is bigger than me being denied my permit and the issue continues to grow. If we, in SC, are subject to the laws of people like this, then who says that it can't be happening where you people reside, too?"

"I look at it this way, I have a snowball's chance of having my permit wind up in my mailbox within the next 5-7 days; however, if it does show up for some odd reason, then these letters won't need addressing."

Are you in this for YOU or are you in this crusade to get the law changed for the PEOPLE as well?

Seriously confused now...
 
Have you heard from SC Grass Roots?

I am betting the first topic of conversation will be a $35 dollar membership, and rightfully so. USMCSilver is short on funds (unemployed student), so we might have to offer to chip in.

If you have off line messages enabled, I could send you the email address for the primary GRSC legal resource. You can also try their webpage at

Grass Roots of South Carolina

I have mixed feelings about being an active member of this group beyond sending money, so I don't represent this as a complete endorsement of all aspects of GRSC. I do think you will likely get $35 worth of help or advice. They know their stuff as well as the players involved.
 
Annual membership is only $15. I'm a member. They have done a LOT for SC CWP laws. Maybe this situation is one they should start working on for the good of SC, not just USMCsilver!
 
ID_shooting, I am in it for me as well as the rest of the people. If I get my CWP back, then that's great. I am still going to pursue getting the law changed somehow so that SLED cannot use the term "favorable" as loosely as they have been allowed in the past. Maybe I can get some kind of "rider" statement placed in the law defining what "favorable" is. I don't know.

And as far as money for SCGR goes, I could afford the membership, and have tried to apply.

When I clicked to print my application so I could mail in a check, there was a window that popped up stating that my membership would be valid until 9/9/04. Well, this was last week when I tried to print the form. So, it sounded as if I would have to joing again in two weeks.

I sent them an e-mail asking if that was an error, but never heard anything back.

However, I did get a good e-mail today. The Public Liaison of the GOA responded to the e-mail I sent them. He gave me the name and phone number of their Chief Attorney and told me to contact him. He will be the first one I call when I get denied again.

RealGun, about the "too many steps" thing --

If you'll go back to page one, you'll see the letters I have received. It laid out the first step of the appeals process -- contacting Capt. Weir. I did, and he rejected me and he said to contact Chief Stewart, and that is who received my last appeal. I assume, upon rejection, he will point me towards the ALJ.

Too many steps, maybe, but I was just following instructions.
 
Annual membership is only $15. I'm a member. They have done a LOT for SC CWP laws. Maybe this situation is one they should start working on for the good of SC, not just USMCsilver!

You're right. I think I was recalling an amount I sent to GOA.
 
RealGun, about the "too many steps" thing --

If you'll go back to page one, you'll see the letters I have received. It laid out the first step of the appeals process -- contacting Capt. Weir. I did, and he rejected me and he said to contact Chief Stewart, and that is who received my last appeal. I assume, upon rejection, he will point me towards the ALJ.

Too many steps, maybe, but I was just following instructions.

According to my reading of the code, they don't have the discretion to impose more steps in the process.
 
They are not going to reverse, because it would be a change in department policy and an admission of faulty judgment, applicable to a number of cases and contrary to their sense of police mission. You need a slam dunk.
 
Summarize. "I have never had more than 2 tickets in a given year....been ticket free for 3 years."

Brief is best.

Glad I don't reside in SC. I had 3 tickets in 90 days after receiveing my DL back in 1981.

Once had 2 tickets within 1 hour. That was about 3 years ago. First one I deserved...second one was crap....but I digress.

Good Luck, keep up the fight.

Smoke
 
denied renewal of CWP

OK, first things first. I'm a newbie currently in Virginia but definately not southern by birth or heritage (not that I don't like the south - except for heat & humidity). I get paid to read, understand, interpret & apply law & policy for an unnamed state agency that operates prisons.

First the disclaimers: I am not a lawyer, attorney or other person licensed to interpret law or provide advice on issues relating to law. I do not now, nor have I ever, played a lawyer on TV, radio, stage, or in my dreams.

I read the SC laws of permit issuance & renewal and found many holes in the denial reasons. First off, there does not seem to be any referral to the locality Sherrif for a recommendation. Second, the law says "shall issue" if you qualify to own/possess a handgun.

There are enough reasons to take this through the legal process of the Law Judge appeal, as well as filing a 42 USC Section 1983 federal lawsuit (as well as a concurrent SC state suit) for violation of at least your 14th Amendment rights, if you do not want to press the individual vs. collective issue on 2nd Amendment. Heck, you might even have some other due process violations that I'm just not focusing on at the moment.

I can only echo that this will not go away, and you had better think about changing your major to plumbing or something else that pays $35/hr+, because this will keep you from becoming a certified LEO, as well as making it very difficult to get any type of security clearance.

Being a starving college student is good, 'cause you can file all your legal stuff "pro se" - Latin for without a lawyer. Courts are required to give you great leeway & defference when you have no mouthpiece. Alternatively, you can ask in your pleadings for the court to appoint counsel because of the complexity of the law and the great import of any decision rendered.

Good luck.

skidmark
 
USMCSilver

I would suggest that instead of "March of 2002. I have tried to change my careless ways, and I hope" that "March of 2002. I have worked to change my careless ways, and I hope" would be a more positive statement of your efforts.

"Tried" sounds like you have failed whereas "worked" is a responsible application of your energies.
 
Hoo boy....where to start?

I picked up an application for a permit on the first day they became available after the shall issue law went into effect. It took me about 3 or 4 days to get everything else together, and then I mailed it in.
On the 90th day after the application was mailed, I received a letter from SLED stating that my app was on "hold" until the disposition of a case against me could be determined. According to their records, I was arrested for uttering a fraudulent check on November 26 of 1984, and they wanted to know what happend. Well, that date just happened to be my 7th anniversary, and I have NO recollection of being arrested for anything. Furthermore, in 1995, I had to get a copy of my criminal record from SLED as part of becoming an insurance agent, and the record I was given showed nothing at all.
I tried to backtrack on the charge mentioned, but was not able to find out anything about it. Because of some other more important issues in my life at that time, I decided that it wasn't worth the $$ or hassle to disprove SLED, so I let the matter slide. I figured there would be no CWP for me.

This past Tuesday, I was going through some old files and found a letter from SLED. Curious, I opened it and what should fall out but a CWP that had been issued to me on 4/4/96, good until 4/4/01!!!

How did that mysterious charge clear itself up? What will happen if I now try to get a new one? From '97 to '02, I delieverd parts for a local car dealership, and during that time, I received a number of speeding tickets.

All of this is made even more curious by the fact that although the law mandates training classes, the permit I was issued originally was issued to me without my showing any formal training other than submitting copies of my Life NRA and USPSA membership, and a copy of my NROI certificate. Apparently, at that time, these were good enough to satisfy somebody.

Most curious of all, how the heck did that letter get into my file cabinet without me knowing about it until 8 years after the fact? :fire: :banghead:

I intend to re-apply, and we shall see what we shall see. GRSC shall hear about this, too. If I could have my way, SLED's only role in this would be to check one's criminal record for FELONY convictions, and if none were found, then they would have to rubber stamp it "approved."
 
Radar Love - not.

USMCSilver, having been in a similar situation, I'd also suggest that you get "armed" and educated about speed traps.

Personally, I'm a good driver, and I'm not out to run the Daytona 500 in Frenchtown, PRNJ. But after having a clean record for ten years or more, somehow my wife and I managed to get tagged three times in six months for doing the average prevailing velocity (plus once for the heinous misdeed of pumping my own gasoline in PRNJ. :barf: ) At that point I figured that I needed to get both protection and education.

Get yourself a good, high-end radar detector. I have the Bel RX-65, and at this point would feel blind and helpless without it. I've also seen good things about the Escort 8500 and Valentine V1. You'll need X, K, and Ka band coverage. A "technological" display showing the frequency of the radar is helpful to distinguish false alarms from the real thing.

Laser detection might help you too, but if they use it in SC it's probably already too late to avoid getting tagged when the alarm goes off. Balancing that is the fact that it's not terribly popular with police: it's expensive, it can't be used from a moving vehicle, and there are some legal issues around laser calibration that stem from a NJ court decision.

Read up as well. This page has the book that the police get their training from.

radar-understanding-2.gif


Here's a book by a former NY state trooper, that tells you a lot about how speed traps are set up and what the capabilities of current radar detectors are. (For instance, the officer must visually estimate your speed before popping the radar, so it will help you to keep an eye on the radar horizon.) It's useful.

Failing to prepare is preparing to fail.

HTH,
- pdmoderator
 
You should acknowledge that radar detectors are illegal in some States, clearly viewed as a tool to allow speeding. Their use could further jeopardize a driver's license. I think the real issue with speeding, making it controversial, is arbitrary enforcement and speed limits, zones, and extent of those zones that don't make sense. In other words, speed limits are only good in principle. Unfortunately, we can't pick and choose when to obey the laws or deny the power of law enforcement. I suppose we could attack that power but don't know that we do.

In my small town in SC we don't have local police. My brother, a former mayor, tells me the proposals to have police in the past were voted down because it was arged that local residents would get harassed with tickets, and no other real law enforcement benefits would result. The truth is that speed limits in this town are both ignored and not enforced. It seems to me that some compromise is really required.

Because we drive like we have an entitlement to judge how fast is okay, speed limits are necessary in my opinion. I bring this up because we seem to argue based upon what we think of speed limits rather than the concept of being law abiding.
 
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