Michigan wrongly denied my CCW renewal

[MIgunner]

After paying the outrageous state costs for renewing my Michigan ccw and waiting 3 months, I just received a letter saying my application was denied. The incompetency in Wayne county is out of control. They cite the reason for my denial as "poss liquor underage 2003, violation of act 381, 2000". Not only is this from 8 years ago, but underage possession of liquor is not a dis qualifier at all. Now they want me to go to the gunboard to appeal it, which is moronic considering Michigan is a shall issue state and I meet all requirements 100%. The best part is that I start law school 2 days before I'm supposed to go in front of the gunboard, which means I have to miss my third day of law school.

Does anyone have any advice for me about this kind of situation? I know with 100% certainty that I'm eligible for my a ccw, especially when considering that I already have one! Wayne county is such a cesspool that the phone number for the clerks ccw office is NEVER answered and the voicemail box has been full for as long as I can remember so I can't even call them.

 

[Scimmia]

I wonder if you could file a claim in small claims court for any monatary damages incurred by them illegally denying you the permit and making you go before the board. Fuel, wear and tear on your vehicle, lost tuition for the missed day, and anything else you can think of. A lawsuit might be the only way to get them to take notice.

 

[357 Terms]

Renewing? so you already had one and they cite an 8 year old violation as reason for denial? why wasn't that a problem the first time? I would show up at that clerks office and ask some questions! If all else fails you could move down to good ole Indiana and get your lifetime.

 

[Trebor]

The gun board does have some discretionary powers to deny an application if they believe you are a danger to yourself or others. Google up the Michigan State Police FAQ on CPL and you can find the text of the actual law.

That sounds like the justification they are using.

My advice is to take a look at the text of the law, prepare your argument, and then go in before the gun board and appeal your denial. Point out that you already have a CPL, that the violation is not an automatic disqualifier, and make the argument that you are not a danger to yourself or others.

Btw, they do want you to go to the gunboard to appeal, right? Ordinarily a CPL denial is a different process before an administrative law judge.

It sounds like this isn't a full "denial" yet, but it is instead just not an automatic renewal. That is an important difference. It sounds like if you can make your case before the gun board they may grant your license or issue an official "Denial". If you are officially denied a different, complex, and poorly understood legal appeal process comes into play. If that happens your best bet is to hire an attorney familiar with the CPL denial appeal process. I'm not an attorney, but my understanding is that the CPL appeal process is different from anything else out there, has it's own idosycronities, and has a strict time limit.

 

[MIgunner]

I'm very familiar with the text of the law and it is outlandish for the board to even possible consider me to be a threat to myself or others. Law schools are informed of all criminal records when applying and would not admit someone who would not be able to pass the character and fitness portion of the bar exam, so basically I'm seen as being fit enough to become an officer of the court, yet somehow get denied on my ccw renewal.

The wayne county system is just a complete disgrace to any other state agency. The laws says "If the concealed weapon licensing board denies issuance of a license, the board must inform the applicant within 5 business days, in writing, the reasons for the denial, along with a statement of the specific facts and copies of documentary evidence
upon which the denial is based. The applicant must also be informed of his or her right to appeal the denial to the Circuit Court in the judicial circuit in which he or she resides.". Yet, my denial is marked 7/27 and the envelope is post marked 8/12 and no evidence is provided to show why I have been denied.

 

[ball3006]

The mental...

stability of anyone that knowingly lives in Wayne County has to factor in this somehow.......chris3

 

[El Mariachi]

Wow, you're the first 'kid' that I've ever known that was caught with booze whilst underage. How's it feel to be famous?......




(but all kidding aside, I'll go out on a limb and suggest that someone in that department is actually a closet anti. 'Cuz I put your 'violation' right up there with jaywalking and riding a Big Wheel without a helmet. Please let us know how this all pans out)......

 

[Tinpig]

"outrageous" - "incompetency" - "out of control" - "moronic" - "cesspool"...

I'm not saying your situation (and Wayne County) isn't all these things, and I'm sure you're justifiably ticked-off.

Still, if you do go before the gun board, I'm sure you know to take a few deep breaths and do your best to stay calm, firm and polite. At the end of the day getting your permit renewed is more important than chastising the bureaucrats.

Good Luck-
Tinpig

 

[WTBguns10kOK]

Make sure you turn out the lights when you leave Michigan.

 

[ms6852]

I have to agree with Tinpig, presenting your case in an intellectual, calm, and polite manner will give you a better foot hold. Remember not to point fingers and accuse anyone of wrong doing. By attacking the beaurocracy you put every one on the defensive mode and they will try to cover up any mistakes on their behalf and in the end you will lose. Just smile and say yes sir, or yes ma'am. You will get further ahead than calling them morons.

 

[oldbear]

So you broke the law 8 years ago and now you are unwilling to pay the price for doing so?
Yes the state is being a little harsh, so perhaps a trip to the appeals board is in order. One word of advise, though. Take the chip off your shoulder, man up to what you did and explain you are now older and much wiser and changed your ways.

 

[mortablunt]

Rule #1 when dealing with legal stuff on THR: Don't give the other side any ammo they can use to claim that you are a vitriolic, trigger happy menace to others.

Definitely have it appealed. Worst comes to worst, you can try your hand at open carry (assuming that is legal).

 

[Frank Ettin]

I'm very familiar with the text of the law and it is outlandish for the board to even possible consider me to be a threat to myself or others. Law schools are informed of all criminal records when applying and would not admit someone who would not be able to pass the character and fitness portion of the bar exam...

Okay, it's outrageous, and more. But you're starting law school, and it's not too early to learn to be professional about these things.

In your future law practice, you will see many outrageous things. You will see incompetent civil servants. You will deal with disingenuous business people. To handle those sorts of situations effectively, you will need to put your indignation aside.

Do your research, find out what you can about procedure and prepare a solid, well reasoned and well supported case. As Tinpig advised:

...take a few deep breaths and do your best to stay calm, firm and polite. At the end of the day getting your permit renewed is more important than chastising the bureaucrats...

That's the way professionals deal with outrageous situations.

 

[labhound]

If you're going to be a lawyer one day, now is the time to start acting like one! Go before the gunboard and present your case in a professional manner. Consider it part of your law school education. It'll be good practice for later in life.

 

[buck460XVR]

Is the violation of Act 381 different than the underage drinking?

 

[USAF_Vet]

Wow, you're the first 'kid' that I've ever known that was caught with booze whilst underage. How's it feel to be famous?......

I knew a kid who joined the AF on an age waiver. He got busted for underage drinking, underage smoking, and underage possession of pornography.

But back on topic, assuming you didn't do anything while you had your CPL that would rightfully prohibit you from renewal, the underage drinking charge seems a bit trumped up. If it didn't prohibit you the first time, why would it prohibit you from renewal? My gut says it is either a mistake, or something else is going on.

You have the right to appeal the decision, right? That would be my first course of action. If they had no legal recourse for denial of your renewal, get the CPL back first, then go after them legally.

 

[brickeyee]

I wonder if you could file a claim in small claims court for any monatary damages incurred by them illegally denying you the permit and making you go before the board.

Very unlikely.

 

[J.A.D.]

From what I've been told recently, this is happening all over. Lots of people are finding themselves without a CCW over things like traffic tickets. What this amounts to, is disarmament. A direct abridgement of your 2nd amendment right. We should be allowed to OPEN carry in this country. Yet we the people are too afraid to demand that right.

 

[antiquus]

...move to Monroe county.

Here's a resource: http://www.migunowners.org/

 

[USAF_Vet]

If I'm ever denied a CCW, which I can't forsee happeneing as I haven't had so much as a parking ticket in over a decade, my state allows open carry. I OC quite often, but there are times I don't want to advertise that I'm armed.
Looks like I'll get into a CCW class in October.

 

[MIgunner]

I plan on going about it in a professional manner, but the fact that I even have to deal with this is just plain stupid. I meet all of the required regulations and guidelines for a Michigan CCW and Michigan is a shall issue state. If it isn't just some careless mistake I will appeal it to the courts. Which have awarded attorney fees and damages to wrongfully denied ccw applicants in the past.