Deputy Shooting Of Military Officer Under Investigation (merged multiple threads)

[SalTx]

From watching the video on t.v., it appears very bad for the officer. Not much to play with to spin it in a good way. I guess the MP can retire now. Having been a LEO, I wish many times I'd had all my actions and those of suspects recorded on videotape. Would have saved me a few headaches and sleepless nights. Most I can be faulted with is sarcasm and not "smiling enough". Video from patrol unit, security cameras are, I believe, a big plus for LEO's.

 

[Gunsnrovers]

(preferably a long, straight road,)

And that's the key. Yes you can still stop and steer, but without power assist, modern cars are difficult to control.

As a passenger in a speeding car driven by someone who has decided to evade someone, turning off the ignition would not be high on my option list.

 

[XD Dude]

I happen to live within the jurisdiction of the SB county Sheriff's dept...tonight on my way home from work there was a cruiser behind me for about a mile...it crossed my mind that I hoped a video crew was somewhere around should I get pulled over

That cop never knew he was being filmed...this would have been another punk in a car chase story if the victim had died and there was no video...I hope the cop spends the rest of his life in a cell. Meanwhile...I am suspicious that the SBSD will try to cover somewhat for the deputy.

 

[misANTHrope]

Humor me. Go out in the garage, start your vehicle's engine. Put it in gear (step on the brake, please) Now turn off the ignition. It will shut off the motor, but will not lock the steering unless you are in Park (maybe Neutral, depending on the vehicle). If it is a manual transmission, most of them will only lock in reverse. Point being, cars are made so you cannot lock the steering while in motion. Turning off the ignition is a pretty good option in this situation...except, IIRC, on newer Vettes, the key is on the left side of the steering wheel and not all that accessible to the passenger. Shift lever and e-brake, on the other hand, are right there on the console...

This must be a feature of newer cars, because I've never experienced a car where the steering wheel lock depended on anything other than the ignition switch position. My Camaro will lock the wheel, win, lose, or draw, regardless of the position of the shifter or what speed the vehicle is moving. Granted, it is ten years old, so this may be a factor- but it remains a bad idea to play the odds that you'll lock the wheel by turning off the ignition.

To address some other concerns about killing the engine in motion- the loss of power steering likely wouldn't even be noticed until speed got below 20 MPH, and it wouldn't pose a problem until you got down to parking-lot speeds, and even at that point only the weakest girlie-man would have trouble. I base this on driving my brother's Fiero, equipped with manual steering and a tiny 13" steering wheel- can you say "no leverage?" Power brakes are a different matter entirely, though- it's stunning to drive a vehicle without power if you've been raised on vacuum assist, as have probably 95% of drivers today.

 

[cz75bdneos22]

i have nothing positive to say.

 

[molonlabe]

"When given a choice between privacy and accountability we always choose privacy for ourselves and accountability for everyone else. This is especially noxious when it's some all-powerful leader making the choice."

Anyone is free to video me during the course of my duties. Especially public service like firefighting or EMS (honoring HIPPA of course). I would expect if the police have nothing to hide, they would not mind either.

 

[isp2605]

Every one of our squads has a video camera and the officer wears a mic. Every stop has to be videotaped. When the lights come on, the camera comes on automatically. Get caught somehow disabling the camera and it's 5 days off for first offense.
We have found that cameras help the officers. It sure cuts down on false complaints. I just closed out a complaint where the 2 girls in the car said our officer yanked the driver out of the car, forced her on the ground, searched the car and tossed everything in the car on the ground, searched both driver and passenger by going inside their pants, and yelled and cursed at them. Videotape showed none of that happened. In fact our officer never once touched either girl, never entered their car, never searched either the girls nor the car, and was so professional during the stop you could have used it as a training video for new cops on how to conduct a traffic stop. The complainants are 16 yrs old which is the only thing that prevented us from getting criminal complaints against them for false reporting. That's one case where I would have loved to file false reporting. In the over 5 yrs we've had cameras in all our cars I have only handled 2 cases where the camera convicted the officer. Both of those were pursuits where the officer violated our pursuit policy. Neither had anything to do with the officer-violator contact.
Our guys love the camera now. They didn't at first but now they've seen where it gets them out of complaints. If you're out there doing the right thing then the camera will save an officer from wrongful complaints.

 

[NineseveN]

If you're out there doing the right thing then the camera will save an officer from wrongful complaints.

It's an awesome tool, too often do police officers have false complaints made against them...this however, is not one of those cases.

 

[buzz_knox]

Anyone is free to video me during the course of my duties. Especially public service like firefighting or EMS (honoring HIPPA of course). I would expect if the police have nothing to hide, they would not mind either.

Your last point brings to mind all the comments about police support for video cameras in public areas, as well as reduced restrictions on search warrant requirements. They are all predicated on the public interest and the suggestion that "if you don't have anything to hide, you'd support it."

 

[molonlabe]

Believe what you want

But my case in point
Rodney King (Officers Jailed)
but lets look and something newer.
The beating of the black man in NO (officers fired)
Patricia Konie violation of her rights (suit filed)
Confiscation of guns in NO (Suit filed)
This incident (pending)

All of which would have never been brought to light without cameras.

 

[k_dawg]

I judge the police agency by their special treatment of the deputy, and how they are holding him to a lesser standard than if it were you or I.

cops *OUGHT* not be above the law.

 

[SixForSure]

A good violation of his civil rights, until the review can be completed. If the cops had charged him, might be a different story. This MP may be able to retire in style after the lawsuit......chris3

I doubt there will be a lawsuit on this one. The County should just open it's checkbook now and say "how much?".

 

[SixForSure]

............... It was dark, they crashed, they bailed out of the car, and at least one fled. I completely agree that in the video the suspect appears to be complying with the officer. However, the officer has no way of knowing if this is a bad guy, good guy or other while he is attempting to control the suspect. .............................

So your theory would be shoot everybody and let G__ sort them out?

 

[Hook686]

They used to be called SPs in the AF... now they are Security Forces, but most of us cannot bring ourselves to call them SF'ers since that has always mean Army Special Forces.

...

I grew up on SAC bases in the 50's ... then they were called AP's (Air Police) ... on base there was an area about 5 miles from the runway that was in a heavily wooded area. A railline connected to the facility located out there ... it was where the nuclear weapons were stored ... rumor was 20 megaton bombs for the B-52's. The base had a lot of AP's and we youngun's enjoyed going out to the great wooded area to camp, fish, hike ... It was not uncommon to hear a story of someone drawing a shot from an AP for getting too close the the three wire perimeter of the storage facility (multiple underground bunkers), or the railroad tracks that winded its way through the forrest to the facility (it was easy to hike along the tracks rather than hike through the forrest and heavy brush). Our opinion then was they (the AP's) had an "Attitude". Maybe this officer was from that era.

 

[answerguy]

They used to be called SPs in the AF... now they are Security Forces, but most of us cannot bring ourselves to call them SF'ers since that has always mean Army Special Forces.

...

I grew up on SAC bases in the 50's ... then they were called AP's (Air Police) ... on base there was an area about 5 miles from the runway that was in a heavily wooded area. A railline connected to the facility located out there ... it was where the nuclear weapons were stored ... rumor was 20 megaton bombs for the B-52's. The base had a lot of AP's and we youngun's enjoyed going out to the great wooded area to camp, fish, hike ... It was not uncommon to hear a story of someone drawing a shot from an AP for getting too close the the three wire perimeter of the storage facility (multiple underground bunkers), or the railroad tracks that winded its way through the forrest to the facility (it was easy to hike along the tracks rather than hike through the forrest and heavy brush). Our opinion then was they (the AP's) had an "Attitude". Maybe this officer was from that era.

Uhmmm.... wouldn't that make him at least 70 years old?

 

[c_yeager]

Uhmmm.... wouldn't that make him at least 70 years old?

Growing up on a SAC base would indicate that he was a child in the 50's, which would indicate that he really isnt necessarily "70 years old".

 

[F4GIB]

USAF "Security Forces are cops. It's remarkable that so few of the LE posters on this subject want to refer to the shootee as a fellow officer (as they do, the deputy). Compare the recent NYC case.

FROM THE USAF SECURITY FORCES WEB SITE <http://afsf.lackland.af.mil>:

OCT 1997 – Career field name officially changes from Security Police to Security Forces. Security and Law Enforcement unify under one AFSC.

This is the duties statement set forth on that official web page:
"The Security Forces career field is responsible for all "police" activities on an Air Force base."

 

[F4GIB]

I brought up the issue of contradictory commands from LEOs a few months ago at http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=163982 . Although my scenario is different than this (mulitple officers instead of one), it seems relevant now.

Remember the totally INNOCENT young man in the "red car" who was shot in the head by FBI SA Barga in Baltimore about 2 years ago. Contradictory commands were given. FBI case so no one was disciplined. Civil suit pending.

If the "man in uniform rules" (as we are so often told by LE on this forum), then LE has to control it's own communications and should be responsible financially if they create a situation involving contradictory commands. There is nothing the civilian can do but get shot by one or another of the inept officers except lie still and hope they don't charge you with resisting.

 

[sabre452]

Six 4 Sure,
I already stated in the post that I don't advocate summary execution of suspects. I stated that it appeared the suspect was complying in the video. I didn't offer a theory. My contention was that the officer's statement needs to be taken into account as well as the circumstances that brought this officer and citizen together for the encounter. This officer didn't drive up to John Q citizen order him to the ground, order him up and shoot him 3 times. There was a series of events that led to this officer making what appears to be a very bad decision to use deadly force against an unarmed, complying suspect. Labelling this guy a JBT or murderous SOB on the basis of the video isn't fair. There are plenty recent examples of all of the possibilities here. In AL, we had an individual killed Christmas eve by a State Trooper that is currently under FBI investigation and the forensic evidence suggests the trooper beat and then executed the unarmed guy. There were at least 4 felony evasions on the news this week across the country where in every incident innocent bystanders were injured and maimed during the course of events. There was even an instance of what appears to be a justified fatal shooting of a suspect at the conclusion of one of the chases. This crap is happening in our society far too many times and none of the outcomes are desirable in my opinion. As for the poster that said cops like this are the reason no one says hi on the street any more, I could offer endless examples of officers shot indiscriminately during traffic stops, run over by drunks, killed in high speed accidents and even run down on the side of the road while changing a lady's tire. Spread the blame equally, consider all of the circumstances and don't hang this guy until his time in front of jury. LEO's aren't above the law and they aren't public punching bags either.:banghead: Thanks.

 

[No_Brakes23]

USAF "Security Forces are cops. It's remarkable that so few of the LE posters on this subject want to refer to the shootee as a fellow officer (as they do, the deputy).

I have yet to meet even one LEO who considers a Military Policeman a "fellow officer." Most of the LEOs I have talked to referred to them as "wannabes" and talk about them with almost the same disdain they have for rent-a-cops. Just my experience. Prior MPs still have to get POST training.

 

[PinnedAndRecessed]

Deputy who shot airman in Chino felt threatened, his father says

http://www.modbee.com/state_wire/story/11768020p-12487824c.html

SAN BERNARDINO, Calif. (AP) - The father of a sheriff's deputy who was videotaped shooting an unarmed Air Force security officer said his son fired because he felt threatened, but the wounded airman's family demanded the deputy be arrested.
Meanwhile, the man who videotaped the incident, Jose Luis Valdes, was taken into custody Friday for an alleged assault in Florida, officials said.

The deputy's father, former Compton Police Chief Ivory John Webb Sr., questioned claims that his son shot Senior Airman Elio Carrion three times as he complied with the deputy's order to "get up."

The videotape showed Carrion, 21, on the ground talking with San Bernardino County sheriff's Deputy Ivory J. Webb, who stood pointing a gun at him. A recorded voice appeared to be commanding Carrion to "get up." As Carrion began to rise, the deputy fired three shots into him.

A few moments earlier, however, a voice appears to say "stay down" although that portion of the recording is less clear. The senior Webb said his son may have shouted for Carrion to "shut up," and he called for the tape to be thoroughly evaluated.

His son told him he felt his life was in danger when Carrion began to get up, he said.

"He did feel threatened when (Carrion) began to raise," Webb told the Los Angeles Times on Friday. "It was a surprise, and he had a split second to react.

"If Carrion had got down and stayed down, none of this would have happened."

Valdes taped the scene Sunday night after a car involved in a brief high-speed chase crashed into a wall by his home, 35 miles east of Los Angeles. Carrion, who had recently returned from Iraq, was a passenger in the car driven by a friend.

Webb, 45, who has more than 10 years with the department, was placed on paid administrative leave.

The FBI has opened a civil rights investigation of the shooting but Carrion's family said Friday that more must be done.

"My family is outraged because this person hasn't been arrested and is on paid vacation," Carrion's wife, Mariela, said at a news conference outside sheriff's headquarters.

She said her husband was doing "good." He was discharged Friday night from Arrowhead Regional Medical Center in Colton.

Attorney Luis Carrillo, who represents Valdes and Carrion's family, said federal authorities should arrest the deputy for civil rights violations if local authorities do not make an arrest.

"Their son is a hero," Carrillo said. "He went to Iraq and thank God he didn't get a bullet, but he comes home and he gets three bullets...."

The Sheriff's Department had not contacted the Carrion family since the shooting and had no comment on the demand for an arrest, spokeswoman Jodi Miller said.

Carrillo also said the arrest of Valdes appeared to be "some kind of retribution on a good Samaritan who taped something that law enforcement didn't want the public to see."

Valdes was taken into custody by Pomona police on a no bail warrant for aggravated assault with a firearm from Dade County, Fla. The warrant came up during a routine background check when Valdes went to an immigration office for an interview to renew his alien registration "green card," Pomona police said in a statement.

He was arrested and booked at the Pomona City Jail pending his extradition to Florida, police said.

The warrant alleges Valdes used a weapon to assault an elderly woman in Miami, said two federal immigration officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity because their agencies did not handle the arrest.

Valdes, contacted by cell phone, confirmed he had been arrested but said the only problem he had in Miami was an arrest for driving under the influence. He did not elaborate about that arrest, but said authorities wanted to send him back to Florida within 24 hours.

"They want to get me out of California as soon as possible," Valdes said in Spanish. "They say I was involved in gunfire in Miami."

He did not provide other details.

 

[El Tejon]

Wait a tick! When you shoot someone your problems only begin? How is that possible?

I thought once you shot someone in self-defense because you were afraid you were given an award by the Chamber of Commerce?

 

[4v50 Gary]

The shooting review board will review all evidence and determine whether the shooting was justified. Specifically, was there anything that would lead a law enforcement officer with the same training to believe that his life or the life of another was endangered. If not, they will recommend disciplinary action up to and including termination. There's also a civil remedy for the airman when he slaps the deputy with a lawsuit (regardless of the shooting review panel's findings).

 

[GruntII]

Comparing him to a Nazi SS trooper is so far out of line it isn't even funny. Making that statement is no less offensive than when the moronic head of the NRA used the term. I hope you have done something to contribute to our free society besides run your 18 year old mouth. You have much to learn.

As for the shooting... we still don't have all the facts. Yes, it does look very bad for the deputy and my gut tells me he did muck up. But consider this possiblity... perhaps the person we hear on the video telling the passenger to get up is not the cop who we see holding the gun. If that is the case, and the deputy with the gun was telling him to remain on the ground, he might not have heard someone else order him up and assumed he was getting up for more sinister reasons.

I offer this possibility bcz it has happened. There was a shooting a few years back in Baltimore where agents stopped a car. One was yelling for the occupants to keep their hands up. Another was ordering them to get out/unbuckle. The 16 year old in the passenger seat heard the one who told him to get out... the agent ordering him to keep his hands up did not hear this and shot the kid under the assumption he was reaching for a weapon.

All I can say is I hope the truth comes out in the end and parties who did err are held responsible.

JBT seem to fit from what is on the video. I have been a cop 14 years both street and inside and you dont' shoot someone for just doing what you ordered them to or doing something you told them not to do. there has to be other circumstances involved. I have long maintained the officer survival movement in this nation turns out kids afraid of their own shadow now not aware and tactically prepared officers as it once did.

From the video somebody needs to stick a fork in the deputy because he is or should be done.

 

[GruntII]

I'm all for LEO but that deputy didn't handle the stress of the situation well. He probably discharged by accident. Three bad shots at close range, for one.

I'm glad that AF guy is okay.

Once is an acident , twice is a co inky dink, 3 is intentional . This guy pulled the trigger all three times.