Derringers - Any practical value or just a range toy?

[GEM]

In the TX summer in full inferno, I would wear shorts, an Under Armor sweat wicking t shirt and a light weight vented fishing shirt over a Glock 26. The heat argument doesn't impress me. Nor does the Model 19, I had one. Big gun for 6 rounds as compared to Glock 19 with 16 rounds. Sorry to be a grouch but that's the way I feel about. Shot both 19s extensively at matches.The utility of the Glock is much superior. Not because it is a Glock, other good semis would work.

I would throw a J frame in my cargo shorts pocket, going down two house to the mail box - a lazy risk assessment. BTW, a 432 in 32 HR mag is not noticeable in shorts pockets.

 

[Old Stumpy]

I have a High Standard hammer less derringer in .22mag. It fits in a nice shoot thru wallet type holster in my back pocket.

A good friend (now deceased) had one of those, and the wallet holster.
Nice and flat, and a surprise for a mugger.

As J.B. Books said to the guy robbing him: "And a little something extra."

 

[forindooruseonly]

A good friend (now deceased) had one of those, and the wallet holster.
Nice and flat, and a surprise for a mugger.

As J.B. Books said to the guy robbing him: "And a little something extra."

My father got jumped in his driveway by a group of thugs in a car. He had a Hi-Standard on him, and after he tackled and pinned the first guy, pulling the derringer out was enough of a deterrent to stop the rest from jumping in. I also know of a deputy who carried one and was off duty when a criminal with a grudge against him caught him in a parking lot. Ended up shooting the attacker in the face. Didn't kill him, but put him out of the fight and into the ICU in a hurry. Both of those events were in the 1980s, so with the arrival of modern pocket pistols there are much better options.

However, the best gun is the one you have with you. Derringers aren't my favorite, but I'm not going to pretend they're useless.

 

[GEM]

There is a tendency to mistake useless for not optimal. Folks have saved the day with derringers and NAA mini-revolvers. If that's all you got, go for it. A percussion derringer in the 1800's probably saved some folks and also did evil.

I've mentioned a Florida story where two old men in a diner intervened with a 22 Mag derringer and a 22 Mag NAA to shoot a guy with a shotgun that was robbing the place and threatening a waitress. They shot him in the stomach and he ran away. Note the part I bolded as the shooter saying the gun was not optimal

Robber gets outgunned on Westside

By Allison Thompson

Wednesday, September 24, 1997

Times-Union staff writer

The shotgun-wielding man who burst into a crowded Jacksonville restaurant Monday night probably wasn't expecting Oscar Moore, but Moore had been waiting for him for years.

Moore, 69, of the Normandy area, said he goes over potential crime scenarios in his head and has been planning for something like the robbery he found himself in the middle of Monday. He said he carries a gun everywhere he goes unless it's illegal.

Yesterday, he said he had only one regret about the shooting - the gun he used.

''That gun I didn't trust to try to go for a head shot ,'' said Moore, who shot the would-be robber in the midsection with a .22-caliber Magnum revolver. ''If I'd had another gun with me, I'd have gone for a head shot and taken care of it from here to eternity.''

As more than 30 diners sat in Sam's St. Johns Seafood at 4453 Blanding Blvd. about 7:20 p.m., a masked man entered the eatery and ordered everyone to the floor, said co-owner Sam Bajalia. The man grabbed waitress Amy Norton from where she and another waitress were huddled on the floor and tried to get her to open the cash register.

At that point, Moore stood up and shot him. Another diner, 81-year-old Robert Guerry of Birmingham, Ala., pulled out a .22-caliber derringer and fired at the man as he ran out of the restaurant. At least one shot hit the fleeing robber.

Seventeen-year-old Dervonne Marquise Moore of the 900 block of Frost Drive East arrived at St. Vincent's Medical Center later Monday night with a gunshot wound and was charged with armed robbery. Moore, who police said isn't related to Oscar Moore, underwent surgery and was in fair and stable condition yesterday.

 

[Cocked & Locked]

Much better than nothing.

 

[Goosey]

I've mentioned a Florida story where two old men in a diner intervened with a 22 Mag derringer and a 22 Mag NAA to shoot a guy with a shotgun that was robbing the place and threatening a waitress. They shot him in the stomach and he ran away. Note the part I bolded as the shooter saying the gun was not optimal

There was a member here who fended off three armed bandits with a .22 mag NAA derringer, killing one. Unfortunately it exploded in his hand, but he survived the encounter.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/actual-shootout-against-armed-killers.433867/

 

[bc38]

I had a NAA mini (as well as a guardian). Guardian was very inaccurate and weighed 24oz loaded. Mini was thumb cock .22, similar to a derringer in usage.

I’m not convinced “no gun” is worse. At least then you will not be tempted to use it. You will have to grapple or run.

I think pepperspray is better than most derringers. I’ve never used it live but have played with the blue training cans.

Please do not put your trust in pepper spray. I have been maced, and or worked in an enclosed mace filled environment many more times than I care to remember. It is not all that difficult to keep on doing what your doing after being maced. It aint pleasant with tears streaming out of your eyes, snot running out your nose and gasping for air, BUT IT IS NOT INCAPACITATING. Of course you have a decided advantage when/if things become contact physical if your opponent is so effected. However; you stand a vary good chance of doing yourself when deploying pepper spray. Foggers are the worst, streemers are better but watch the wind and dont move through the area ya just maced, foam is great unless the BG collects some in this hands and throws it back at you. Thrown foam isn't the best delivery system, but nobody is throwing back 22/25 mouse farts. Mouse guns ans derringers may not be fight stoppers, and there are better options out there (sometimes) but a couple of holes in the body of the other guy will give you a decidedly leg up.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

I bought a Bond Arms Snake Slayer IV for a tractor gun when I am bush hogging the north forty. It is fun to shoot but I've not mastered reliable hits with .410 ammunition when shooting from the tractor. The trigger pull is terrible and prevent reliable hits even with a .410 shot shell.

I plan to keep the gun but it's usefulness has not been discovered. The Bond Arms derringers are well made but I question their effectiveness.

That mirrors my experience and conclusions with the Snake Slayer IV almost exactly, minus the "fun to shoot part". I have large hands, and the small grip really beat me up.

Yesterday I was picking up a gun I ordered from my LGS. While waiting for the background check to go through I saw a couple looking at and talking about a Bond Arms in the case, and I heard the man say to his female companion, "Yeah get it if that's the one you want. It looks nice."

I almost asked them if they had ever shot a Bond Arms or a derringer. It was chambered in 357 magnum. I minded my own business though.

 

[Tallball]

Here is my substitute. It cost $120-something used.

KelTec P32

• Tallball
• Jun 11, 2018

 

[HB]

Please do not put your trust in pepper spray. I have been maced, and or worked in an enclosed mace filled environment many more times than I care to remember. It is not all that difficult to keep on doing what your doing after being maced. It aint pleasant with tears streaming out of your eyes, snot running out your nose and gasping for air, BUT IT IS NOT INCAPACITATING

I don’t trust pepper spray, i think a glock 19 is better for most people.

My main point is a NAA is barely a gun and cocking/firing when somebody is whoppin on you would be hard... and a true derringer is worse.

A gun isnt a magic talisman.

 

[jmorris]

Much better than nothing.

View attachment 898842

Nice knife.

 

[jmorris]

Here is my hunk O iron, with the payload of the shotshells for visual, again just shy of 800 #12 pellets.

Practical, who am I to judge what you need?

It’s easier to draw from a holster than getting the little revolver out of a pocket and can cut a snake in half with one shot.

 

[needmorecowbell]

In my opinion, not even range toys.

This ^^^

 

[bc38]

A gun isnt a magic talisman.

 

[JoeHenry]

A Smith & Wesson J frame air weight is just about as easy to carry as a 45 Colt derringer and is a much more viable defensive weapon. I would try to sell any derringer if I had the misfortune to have purchased one.

 

[jstert]

indeed no firearm is a magic talisman. worse application of this thought is the supposed “enchanted” sound of racking the slide of a 12ga pump action shotgun as everyman’s home defense weapon.

i’ve put maybe 500 rounds each through my naa mini revolver and my various bond arms derringer barrels. i’m center mass accurate at legitimate self defense distances. neither one is tactical but neither am i. i’ve got other ccw choices but sometimes one of these is just what i can carry, making it my best at that place and time. since i’m practiced with them they are a reasonable choice for me and my circumstances, ymmv for sure.

 

[GEM]

This conversations are like:

1. I carry a SAA for self-defense. I dare you to criticize me.
2. I carry a BP revolver for SD. I dare you to criticize me.
3. I carry a rock for SD. Rocks served people well for 200,000 years, so that's my choice.

Yep, the derringers and NAAs can work. They are not optimal. What else is there to say?

 

[ApacheCoTodd]

This conversations are like:

1. I carry a SAA for self-defense. I dare you to criticize me.
2. I carry a BP revolver for SD. I dare you to criticize me.
3. I carry a rock for SD. Rocks served people well for 200,000 years, so that's my choice.

Yep, the derringers and NAAs can work. They are not optimal. What else is there to say?

I think it's funny to contemplate how many ballistic utopians who mock a *derringer* in favor of the next step up would often mock the next step up in favor of yet another step, and another....

Todd.

 

[Kleanbore]

I think it's funny to contemplate how many ballistic utopians who mock a *derringer* in favor of the next step up would often mock the next step up in favor....

The discussion here is about derringers. It is not funny.

Eight score years ago, derringers compared reasonably well with other concealable firearms available. Some people carried a brace of two.

Today, however, there are numerous small alternatives that are safer, that contain more ammunition, that can be deployed more quickly and with one hand, and that can be fired a second time much more rapidly.

They represent much better choices for self defense.

Defensive scenarios in which derringers might suffice exist primarily as unrealistic fantasies conjured up for the purpose.

For a dose of reality, I suggest trying one out in a good defensive pistol course.

Right now I cannot remember any drill in which a defender might have succeeded with a derringer.

 

[ApacheCoTodd]

I think it's damn funny.

I'll bet in 118 responses, there are several individuals who say that a derringer (pistol A) in insufficient, irresponsible and foolhardy but the next size up (pistol B) is fine.

Then, of the individuals who state pistol B is fine, I wonder how many have a history of mocking the size and architecture of pistols B in favor of pistols C or D, a carbine, rifle or shotgun in size and capability.

Yup, most certainly funny.

People are funny, people on the internet are among the funniest.

I can't imagine any one reading ANY post saying that there are NOT better choices if available and practical - except for argument miners, I guess.


Todd.

 

[Kleanbore]

Then, of the individuals who state pistol B is fine, I wonder how many have a history of mocking the size and architecture of pistols B in favor of pistols C or D, a carbine, rifle or shotgun in size and capability.

Irrelevant conjecture.

 

[ApacheCoTodd]

Irrelevant? Nope, not if you comprehend the point if my first post.



If you can't or won't, I don't care to help you further.

Todd.

 

[Kleanbore]

Irrelevant? Nope, not if you comprehend the point if the first post.

I suggest that a discussion of " the size and architecture of pistols B in favor of pistols C or D, a carbine, rifle or shotgun in size and capability" would not be relevant to the question posed in the first post, "So all of this taken into consideration, do derringers have any practical value or are they range toys? What is the best caliber for one of these?"

 

[cowboy77845]

I carry my 45/310 for snakes when at the ranch. Pretty handy.

 

[ApacheCoTodd]

I suggest that a discussion of " the size and architecture of pistols B in favor of pistols C or D, a carbine, rifle or shotgun in size and capability" would not be relevant to the question posed in the first post, "So all of this taken into consideration, do derringers have any practical value or are they range toys? What is the best caliber for one of these?"

And.... My responses are relevant to the common thread that Derringers are not practical due to the utopian point of view of there always being a more practical - even if only barely - larger alternative.

Derringers are not practical because there rare LCPs.

and yet.

We will often see here that folk will say that LCPs are borderline irresponsible because there are LC9s.

Then, we'll have debate creep to more capacity, only a little bit.... and a little bit and the logic stream that started in trying to prove the improve able that a Derringer is impractical finally settles on someone saying that a pistol.... ANY pistol is only to get to a rifle, etc...

My point quite clearly is that you can not effectively say that a Derringer is impractical, irresponsible or down right dangerous to the carrier (as has in fact been stated) just because someone, somewhere makes something subjectively or objectively *better*.

Or, from the other tack, they are quite NOT "just a range toy".

You're selectively applying responses to dismiss a point of view.

Todd.