Detective Special vs Detective Special

[420Stainless]

A LGS has two Detective Specials. Both appear to me to be about 20% over priced, but I haven't tried to talk to the staff about any possible deals or actually checked out either yet. Number 1 is an older model with quite a bit of cosmetic wear, but doesn't appear to have been fired all that much for $399. Number 2 is a late model (large grips, no taper or turn down on the outside of the barrel) - almost pristine with no box or papers for $599. Side by side, the late model looks to be quite bulky due to the grip size compared to its elder, yet it looks nice in a substantial sort of way.

I intend to get a non-collector grade DS some day (maybe not either one of these if the price is firm) and lean heavily toward the older model for seemingly better hiding characteristics. Is there any love for the later model DS?

 

[dfariswheel]

The newer post-1972 shrouded barrel balances and seems to shoot better.
More weight up front means less felt recoil.

Under the bulky grip is a "stubby" grip on which you can install much smaller grips if desired.
The older guns as made prior to 1965 had the old, long grip frame.

 

[Cosmoline]

For the prices you state, the first (older) one sounds like a better deal. $400 is not overpriced for a DS with good timing. I paid $350 for mine and have never regretted it.

Only some of the DS's have the half size grip frame shown above. The older ones are generally thinner and lighter though. Get the SNs to check the year

 

[Shade00]

Hrm. Personally, I'd probably have a hard time paying that much for either. If I had to choose between the two, I'd probably choose the older of the two. Just me, though - if you want a collector, go with the newer - if you want a carry/shooter, go with the older and save some coin.

 

[Old Fuff]

I have always liked the old “pencil barreled” model because of its high front sight. With it raised in the rear sight notch I can engage a target out to 100 yards or more. But these days few are interested in doing that.

The short-butt frame can accommodate many different sizes of stocks. As you noticed the ones that come on the later Detective Special are a bit large, but comfortable when it comes too shooting. Colt made stocks that are identical to the ones on the older model, but fit the newer frame. They also made an even shorter style that works better if you pocket carry.

So don’t worry, pick the revolver you like best, but keep in mind that the short butt frames offer choices in stocks that the full frame doesn’t.

The prices do seem high, but Detective Specials, as well as other Colt snubbies have been and are going up…. and up.

 

[Slamfire]

I have a number of DS's. The older the DS the better built. My latest "old" model was made around 1962. The earliest is around 1930. When I compare the fit and finish of the internal parts to the "old" Colts, with the 70's full lug versions, the internal parts on the full lug versions look like they were filed from soap.

Late model Colts have all sorts of crude profiles, file marks. They show evidence of a lot of hand filing. The earlier parts are nice, precisely machined parts, with only a small amount of handfitting.

What is obvious, Colt machinery was wearing out. Towards the end of production, greedy management, instead of replacing old equipment, expected workers to carve out the internal lockworks from crude oversized pieces.

Since the worksmanship is crap, I suspect other shortcuts were taken. Even if that is not true, it just makes me wonder if a late model Colt would last as long as an earlier well built DS.

To me, the best Colts were built before WWII. Almost art works in steel. The Company must have taken pride in its work, the work force was obviously stable.

Then the "Suits" took over and ran the company into the ground.

 

[Cosmoline]

Does the older one have the short frame?

 

[Hawk]

Detective Special pricing looks to have gone seriously off the rails. The one I got for around 350.00 a year ago now has a near identical one in the same dealer's case for 499.00.

It would appear the collectors have found them. They may well have found them before, but I've only noticed it recently.

 

[Cougfan2]

Their antiquated equipment and high East coast labor costs is what drove Colt out of most of the firearms market. They could just no longer make a decent profit with what they would have ended up having to price their guns at if they were going to continue to sell. I would have been enormously costly to update their factory with modern machinery. Some of their drill presses were still belt driven!

There was a great book that you may be able to find on Amazon or e-bay called "The Rampant Colt". A very interesting read on the history of Colt.

 

[Old Fuff]

Does the older one have the short frame?

They shortened the frame in 1966, so I presume a revolver dating from 1962 would have the longer one.

 

[Old Fuff]

Their antiquated equipment and high East coast labor costs is what drove Colt out of most of the firearms market.

They also put they're final assemblers on a piecework basis, which encouraged faster work at the expense of quality.

Prior to World War Two the Great Depression was on, sales were slow, and whatever time that was necessary to insure the best possible quality was used, and of course it shows.

Also few people know it, but it was absolutely necessary for both Colt and Smith & Wesson to retain they're skilled work force. Neither had complete blueprints of the various parts that went into their handguns. They depended on gauges, and the experience and skills of the workers - which were considerable.

 

[OFT]

I'm not sure that I would want either one at those prices but if I were to choose one it would be the older one. Likely it shoots as well as the newer one and the older models with the tapered barrels are just cooler.

 

[Cougfan2]

They also put they're final assemblers on a piecework basis, which encouraged faster work at the expense of quality.

This is the same thing that happened to the Gibson Guitar company when they moved to Nashville from Kalamazoo, MI. They had very few of their skiller luthiers that made the move with them. Their quality went to hell and the necks on their flagship Guitars like the Les Paul started feeling like baseball bats.

 

[420Stainless]

Does the older one have the short frame?

It has the longer frame. I did not memorize the S/N on the older one so I can't place the year. The late model one dates to 1974 according to the proofhouse site.

I think I'll go back and checkout both for lockup and timing. If good, I'll see if they'll come down on the price a bit for one or the other. I don't feel any particular sense of urgency even though I know DS are only going to get more expensive in the long run. Perhaps it is strange, but the only reason I really want one is to simply have one. I may carry it occasionally just to change things up, but I recently acquired a reliable (so far!) PM45 that has supplanted all other light dress carry weapons for me. But I've always wanted a DS and a Python. Not being a real, or knowledgeable collector, the Python values have already exceeded my appetite. Still hope for a good DS though.

 

[420Stainless]

dfariswheel,

Thanks for the photos on the grip frame comparison. I never would have guessed that those thick grip panels were actually concealing a shorter frame.

 

[doc540]

as stated above, the short-gripped frames make possible a variety of aftermarket grip options....all of which are easier to conceal if that's a factor for you

 

[Cosmoline]

Since the older one has the full frame, I'd say buy it. Check timing first, but if it's OK that's not a bad price. The day of $200 DS's is long, long gone absent a fluke. These are going for four hundred or more and are real keepers. Mine is my main carry piece. They're a class act. The later ones started to copy S&W on the exterior and IMHO were not as classy.

 

[Guillermo]

+1 buy the old one

the new one sounds nice but is 100 or 150 too pricy.

 

[csmkersh]

I'd buy it even though it's twice the price I paid for this one

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[cpirtle]

I have intentionally over paid for guns I've wanted a couple of times. Guys on the forums will tell you your crazy that they bought that gun for a third of the price you paid, but don't let it get you down.

Local economies vary greatly and we have all stumbled on excellent deals, you can just make it up on the next one.

In my opinion if you want it, can afford it and can't find it anywhere else easily just buy it and be happy.

I personally bought a 99%+ late 60's/early 70's DS about 5 months ago from a fellow forumite in a FTF for $350. The deals can still be found occasionally but they are getting hard to come by and not all of us have the "patience of Job(e)"

 

[Hawk]

I have intentionally over paid for guns I've wanted a couple of times. Guys on the forums will tell you your crazy that they bought that gun for a third of the price you paid, but don't let it get you down.

Don't know who said it here but I thought it was a perceptive remark - something along the lines of "You didn't pay too much, you just bought it a little early. Wait a while and the price will be just fine."

 

[Guillermo]

Hawk

You are right with your "You didn't pay too much, you just bought it a little early" theory if it is a good quality older gun. There are exceptions with cheaper and/or modern guns.

Of course with old Smiths and Colts you could not be more right.

 

[Hawk]

You are right with your "You didn't pay too much, you just bought it a little early" theory if it is a good quality older gun. There are exceptions with cheaper and/or modern guns.

Aw, you're just trying to soften me up for the next time you and Fuff are trying to get my DS for 40.00 (on the high side).


Sometimes I wonder if exceptions don't occur even with stuff that one would have never guessed would gain in value - noticed pricing on Bauers recently? Some are going for what I paid for a "real" baby Browning.

 

[Old Fuff]

Aw, you're just trying to soften me up for the next time you and Fuff are trying to get my DS for 40.00 (on the high side).

I'm hurt...

I mean you pay to have your trash hauled away don't you...

I was just trying to haul away.... Oh never mind.

 

[Guillermo]

Aw, you're just trying to soften me up for the next time you and Fuff are trying to get my DS for 40.00 (on the high side).

I too am wounded

The offer was good. I REALLY would have paid you $40 plus shipping

I guess it is true that no good deed goes unpunished

:banghead:

Besides...the Fuffmiester only offered you $25 (you pay shipping!)