DHS says people with handguns, rifles, and shotguns may be terrorists

[PabloJ]

Don't even think about voting for Democrats. They cause this stuff. It's not some kind of indirect connection, it's in their party platform and their leaders are openly anti-2nd amendment. How much more clear does it need to be?[/QU

Yes 2x0 is different from 0x2.

 

[OilyPablo]

Actually they're two horns on the same goat.

Easy to say on the internet and yes RINO's are as bad as Democrats in many ways, but no they are not the same. I guarantee if you vote for Democrats you will get gun control.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Domestic Terrorists

The Boston Marathon Bombers had ONE handgun and two pressure cookers packed with powder from fireworks. Plus homemade grenades.

NSPOF Survey of ordinary citizens

74% of gun owners owned two or more firearms
68% of handgun owners also owned at least one rifle or shotgun

My conclusion

Profiling people who possess two or more firearms would miss the Boston Marathon Bombers but would profile tens of millions of lawabiding gunowners.

 

[Deaf Smith]

Everyone is a potential terrorist in the eyes of the DHS. Hence to them everyone should be spied on to make sure they are not terrorist.

The USSR had the same outlook. And once you pass off the lie that everyone is a potential terrorist then in time expect block spies, paid denouncers, drones, CCTV, roving monitors with eavesdropping equipment, and even your regular mail opened (if they have not actuarially started opening mail, since they DO open email and the UPS is just another branch of the administration like the DOJ, DHS, FBI, IRS.) Keep in mind the federal judges' now rubber stamp all their request.

And before you think I'm paranoid, I remember this guy 20 years ago who told me the government was hooked up to the supermarket scanners and scanning your fingerprints to know what all you bought. I laughed and pointed out the flaws with his reasoning (like the scanners ability, disk storage space, bandwidth, etc...)

But you know, lots of technology as improved in those 20 years and Snowden as exposed quite a bit of the NSA's activities (not to mention the IRS, ATF and others.)

It's not so funny now, is it?

Deaf

 

[JColdIron]

see clear logic in their thinking.

"Terrorist like to have weapons, so if you have weapons you might be a terrorist".

So, if that's true, then this is true as well for the same reason:

"Ducks like to swim, so if you like to swim you might be a duck".

Brilliant.

I wonder how the millions of people that go to the beach every year feel about our government thinking they are ducks.

I bet they feel the same as the millions of people that have weapons. They feel like normal Americans doing normal American things.

I'll be most terrorists have feet too. Doesn't make every Biped a terrorist.

Corrolation is not causation.

 

[Pizzapinochle]

Domestic Terrorists

The Boston Marathon Bombers had ONE handgun and two pressure cookers packed with powder from fireworks. Plus homemade grenades.

NSPOF Survey of ordinary citizens

74% of gun owners owned two or more firearms
68% of handgun owners also owned at least one rifle or shotgun

My conclusion

Profiling people who possess two or more firearms would miss the Boston Marathon Bombers but would profile tens of millions of lawabiding gunowners.

The memo say nothing about "two or more firearms." The three specific activities are:

-Illegal possession of firearms (rifles shotguns, pistols, and military grade firearms) and ammunition.
-Possession of explosives such as IEDs (including rockets, grenades, pipe bombs, and other homemade explosives) and other destructive devices; and
-Dangerous objects artfully concealed at security screening checkpoints or in areas where weapons are not allowed.

I am pretty darn certain "two pressure cookers packed with powder from fireworks. Plus homemade grenades" falls under "possession of explosives such as IEDs" and the criteria of this memo would not "miss" the Boston Marathon Bombers.

 

[Queen_of_Thunder]

Yes and worse case is with a simple signature even a single shot 22 can become illegal.

 

[OilyPablo]

The part mentioning the Constitution is interesting. I wonder if this would help an accused innocent gun owner get more rapid judicial response. Somehow I doubt it, but it's an interesting angle.

Let me make this clear: We can have liberal and conservative discussions and disagreements, we can not agree on a many many things, I can still get along with you and even buy you a beer. But when someone tries to deny my Constitutional rights, by whatever method, this person or entity is the ENEMY. There is really is no other way to see this.

 

[rdhood]

During a traffic stop, police discovered 7 firearms (4 pistols, 1 shotgun, 2 rifles) approximately 5000 rounds of ammunition, 21 ammunition magazines, a 12 guage ammunition belt with rounds, a pistol holder with magazines in pouch, punch knife, and other materials in the vehicle. The police arrested and charged the driver and passenger with weapons possession

This description sounds like my trunk on a Saturday afternoon drive to the (outdoor) shooting range.

 

[MattShlock]

Is there anyone here that really did not think that at the inception of DHS that it would be turned inward on us as an internal security apparatus?

I remember back in the day people on this very board and a couple others that said we were the tinfoil hatters and that DHS was need to keep us saaaaaaaaafe and that it could never be misused against us.

A Dr. Michael Savage fan I see.

But look, the reason you're paranoid is...

...they're after you!

 

[AethelstanAegen]

Did any of you guys actually stop to read the stuff? No where does it say that large quantities of ammo and arms equals terrorist. It's simply listed as one of MANY possible indicators and specifically states that it shouldn't, in of itself be taken as evidence of terrorism. So actually the DHS guidance sheet basically agrees with you all. So maybe we should all work on our reading comprehension and stop running for the tin foil hats every five seconds. It's this kind of stuff that gives us gun owners a bad reputation as wackos.

 

[Deaf Smith]

I'd agree with you Aethelstan but Snowden showed us (and is still showing us) the government is dangerously out of control.

Deaf

 

[OilyPablo]

Well I for one actually read the Roll Call Release.

Recent SAR incidents reported to the Nationwide SAR Initiative (NSI) shared space highlight the types of weapons discoveries that are suggestive of pre-operational activity and attack planning. Although neither incident was linked to terrorist activity, they are cited as examples for awareness and training purposes.


» (U) During a traffic stop, police discovered 7 firearms (4 pistols, 1 shotgun, and 2 rifles), approximately 5,000 rounds of ammunition, 21 ammunition magazines, a 12-gauge ammunition belt with rounds, a pistol holster with magazine pouch, a punch knife, and other materials in the vehicle. The police arrested and charged the driver and passenger with weapons possession.

Then I ask: "SO"? Well where I live this would not be crime. And it wasn't terrorism. It was more than "an indicator", because they seem pretty damn proud of arresting this person. My reading comprehension is just fine thanks, it's just that I don't like what I'm reading.

Let's just say I'm on the way to the range with an AR, an AK, 20 magazines for each. Seven or eight handguns, maybe 70-80 magazines. Oh a couple shotguns and 6-8 boxes of shells. Don't forget the box cutter in my shooting bag, knife in my pocket and the all important "pistol holster with magazine pouch". My car breaks down and a nosy cop stops and then calls DHS. I get hauled off to the hoosegow. All my guns, ammo and knife get confiscated. 3 days and $20,000 later, I'm allowed to walk. NOTHING I did was illegal and every thing on the "Constitutional activities should not be reported in a SAR or Information Sharing Environment (ISE) SAR absent articulable facts..." was on the up and up.

So you will just say "tin foil hat"? Dude - where have you been the last, I don't know, 12 years?

 

[DammitBoy]

What Oily said, times twelve...

 

[HighExpert]

You are forgetting that, to some folks, Geo, Washington was also a terrorist. If you don't agree with the government's ideas of control and are willing to resist, that may make you a terrorist. After all, they are afraid you might keep voting them out of office.

 

[herkyguy]

Like any other government entity, DHS continues to grow and will not stop any time soon. it was only recently that i learned DHS has its own agents (HSI). that's in addition to the agents attached to all the other agencies under DHS.

it seems a bit over the top to me.

 

[rdhood]

So maybe we should all work on our reading comprehension and stop running for the tin foil hats every five seconds. It's this kind of stuff that gives us gun owners a bad reputation as wackos.

wake up dude. There are no more tin foil hats. All of the spying conspiracy theories are no longer theories. They are FACT. Our government is actively spying on YOU, on ME, on every single person in this forum... as well as all of the top leaders of the free world. Angela Merkel and I have something in common: The U.S. government is spying on us. That is a FACT. You can argue your opinion, but you cannot argue against FACT. It is an ADMITTED FACT.

 

[itsa pain]

Is there anyone here that really did not think that at the inception of DHS that it would be turned inward on us as an internal security apparatus?

I remember back in the day people on this very board and a couple others that said we were the tinfoil hatters and that DHS was need to keep us saaaaaaaaafe and that it could never be misused against us.

yes you are right. I always said the war on terrorism is a war on us. many gun owners seem to worship govt and only the govt can take away our rights not a goat herder 10000 miles away. so I cant understand the way some people think

 

[12131]

Well I for one actually read the Roll Call Release.

Recent SAR incidents reported to the Nationwide SAR Initiative (NSI) shared space highlight the types of weapons discoveries that are suggestive of pre-operational activity and attack planning. Although neither incident was linked to terrorist activity, they are cited as examples for awareness and training purposes.


» (U) During a traffic stop, police discovered 7 firearms (4 pistols, 1 shotgun, and 2 rifles), approximately 5,000 rounds of ammunition, 21 ammunition magazines, a 12-gauge ammunition belt with rounds, a pistol holster with magazine pouch, a punch knife, and other materials in the vehicle. The police arrested and charged the driver and passenger with weapons possession.

Then I ask: "SO"? Well where I live this would not be crime. And it wasn't terrorism. It was more than "an indicator", because they seem pretty damn proud of arresting this person. My reading comprehension is just fine thanks, it's just that I don't like what I'm reading.

Let's just say I'm on the way to the range with an AR, an AK, 20 magazines for each. Seven or eight handguns, maybe 70-80 magazines. Oh a couple shotguns and 6-8 boxes of shells. Don't forget the box cutter in my shooting bag, knife in my pocket and the all important "pistol holster with magazine pouch". My car breaks down and a nosy cop stops and then calls DHS. I get hauled off to the hoosegow. All my guns, ammo and knife get confiscated. 3 days and $20,000 later, I'm allowed to walk. NOTHING I did was illegal and every thing on the "Constitutional activities should not be reported in a SAR or Information Sharing Environment (ISE) SAR absent articulable facts..." was on the up and up.

So you will just say "tin foil hat"? Dude - where have you been the last, I don't know, 12 years?

Yes, sir. I read that, too, and that scares me.

 

[itsa pain]

wake up dude. There are no more tin foil hats. All of the spying conspiracy theories are no longer theories. They are FACT. Our government is actively spying on YOU, on ME, on every single person in this forum... as well as all of the top leaders of the free world. Angela Merkel and I have something in common: The U.S. government is spying on us. That is a FACT. You can argue your opinion, but you cannot argue against FACT. It is an ADMITTED FACT.

beautiful post. the govt and it defenders labels anyone who out them as conspiracy kooks. yet every other day I read the govt charges people with conspiracy to commit murder kidnapping conspiracy to defraud. one guy who was a passenger at a roadblock got charged with conspiracy to evade roadblock. the NSA built a 4 billion dollar building the size of a small city to spy on us that takes 1.7 million gallons of water a day to cool equipment. they live on and invent conspiracies

 

[itsa pain]

As much as I enjoy taking a bite-out-of-Washington, we are drifting away from firearms, and wandering into politics here. We need to get back at least directly to the firearms aspect.

Me? I own handguns, revolvers, rifles, carbines and shotguns. My weapons are for fun, for hunting, for collecting, for the heck of it, and for self-defense if I ever need them. I make no apologies to anyone in any public office for exercising my God given rights.

Geno

it is politics and politicians that decide what rights we have

 

[itsa pain]

Why not go to the material that has PublicIntelligence.net so excited and make your own interpretation after reading the entire body of information?


http://info.publicintelligence.net/DHS-FBI-Weapons.pdf

Here's the information sharing document they provide a link to http://nsi.ncirc.gov/documents/ISE-...Issued_2009.pdf?AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1

The PI.net folks do say, "Like other bulletins in the DHS-FBI series on suspicious activity reporting, the document notes that “constitutional activities should not be reported” unless the circumstances “support the source agency’s suspicion that the behavior observed is not innocent, but rather reasonably indicative of criminal activity associated with terrorism, including evidence of pre-operational planning related to terrorism.” However, no guidance is provided on potential legal issues related to the reporting of constitutionally-protected activities.", but they don't acknowledge that guidance is part of law enforcement training nor are they acknowledging that the "Like other bulletins" is an acknowledgement that this warning to LE to respect the constitutional guarantees on the 2A is oft repeated.

Have we seen weapons and explosives caches in the hands of terrorists? Sure. Have we seen personal firearms collections that rival those terrorist caches? Sure. How do you know the other guy with the same collection you have is a terrorist or an enthusiast? You don't just by the fact that he has several guns so you must determine if there are other indicators before assuming it equals terrorist activity. That's what the DHS bulletin is warning LE to not make the mistake of assuming. That's the crux of the matter.

I guess like the bible you can twist any document to get the desired result. sometimes I wonder if we are being monitored here. I really do not like the idea of my freedom being in the hands of a steroid juiced leo

 

[Gaucho Gringo]

The google map satellite pictures of my house is all the proof I need to be convinced that we are being watched. I can tell about when the photo was taken by what cars are in the driveway and landscaping details. The government has the ability to read my newspaper on my front porch like it was in front of them from the satellites orbiting above. 30 years ago they did not, I voted as a Democrat and did not believe in conspiracy theories. Today I no longer vote as a Democrat and some conspiracy theories make a lot more sense now.

 

[astra600]

I might have too much ammunition if the shelves in my garage collapse, but that would be my fault for poor weight distribution and not enough 4 X 4s. I wonder how it would go at the local government office if I sought a permit to build strong shelving for the purpose of storing large amounts of heavy steel/lead components and projectiles. Said shelving to be attached to the exterior wall studs and posts mounted floor to ceiling. I would actually have a stronger wall. And maybe a visits from the suit and dark glasses guys?
Now, would the UPS driver be committing a terrorist act by carrying / delivering cases of ammo? The gov't makes all the money it wants and can spend you into bankruptcy proving their point if they feel like it. If they get too bored they will do another Waco. Just figure that DHS is an embryonic gestapo and go from there.

 

[DNS]

Building quite the little army of obedient soldiers. Sadly I think this is going to end badly when a catastrophic event calls for them to over reach their very shaky authority.

I support Oath Keepers too so I'm probably a super terrorist extraordinaire.