Did Colt make a Dragoon ?

[Zerstoerer]

Hi,

did Colt make a Dragoon blackpowder revolver recently?
Or is this some Italian copy by Uberti or Pietta?

Some say they bought the tooling from Italy (how sad)
and made them here so they would qualify as Colts made
in the US, but...

The gun looks great, pictures to follow...

 

[junkman_01]

I think you had better read this to get up to speed on 'Colt' C&B revolvers....

https://www.bluebookinc.com/Info/PDF/POWDER/MBPHistoryOfColtBlack.pdf

 

[hang fire]

I think you had better read this to get up to speed on 'Colt' C&B revolvers....

https://www.bluebookinc.com/Info/PDF...fColtBlack.pdf

Very interesting, thx for posting the link.

 

[Slamfire]

I talked with the New York group in 1999, I had issues with my Colt Signature Series Third Model Dragoon.

The parts were Italian. I am of the opinion that the major machining was done in Italy, like cylinder holes, barrel rifling, etc. To meet content laws in the US I believe the polishing and fitting was done in New York.

 

[Zerstoerer]

Perfect, thanks.
Mine is a 2nd Gen, I'll write to Colt to get the letter.

 

[Gatofeo]

The history of the Colt reissued cap and ball revolvers is interesting. Colt's link to Italian manufacturers is well established. There are those who denigrate these 2nd and 3rd generation Colts as "Spaghetti Colts" and incorrectly claim that such Colts were made entirely in Italy.
History of their manufacturing disproves this claim.

The 2nd generation is widely considered to be the finest-made of all Colt reissues. It's not considered a reproduction, because it was finished and sold by the original maker.
Those who yell, "Spaghetti Colts!" need to remember that many Winchesters have been made by Miroku of Japan, and Fabrique Nationale of Belgium, yet they are collectively called Winchesters.
I don't hear the derogatory terms of "Wasabi Winchesters" or "Flemish Winchesters" applied to them.
Why not also denigrate Brownings made outside the U.S.? I haven't heard reference to "Strawberry Waffle Brownings." In fact, Brownings made and assembled in Belgium are more highly valued than those with parts made in Belgium and assembled in Portugal. Why this is so escapes me, because I have both types and quality is very high.

So why all the "Spaghetti Colt" labels? The Colt 2nd generation is very finely made, fit and finished. The 3rd generation "Signature Series" suffered from spotty quality control, ranging from very good to lousy. I've seen examples of both qualities in 3rd generation Signature Series, but I've never seen a poorly fit or finished 2nd generation.
Those who claim they are not "real" Colts need to reconsider.
And by the way, ever examine how many foreign parts are in your "American made" Chevrolet, Ford or Dodge?

If you have a 2nd generation Colt, you have a very finely made Colt.

 

[Spiller1933]

Gatofeo
There is no doubt in my mind that the 2nd gen Colts are superbly finished.
That is what prompted me to buy one when they came out.

But, mine had a problem. The wonderful 2 lb trigger pull quickly became lighter and lighter, until the gun would not stay cocked.
Inspection showed that the trigger nose was soft. They probably stoned the trigger after it was case hardened. I also saw that the point of the bolt was cutting into the cam rather deeply. This when the gun had been fired less than 24 times.
It took so long to get the durn thing, and looked so nice otherwise, I fitted then re-case hardened the trigger and replaced the cam.
It has performed perfectly since.
The sn is 223xx.

So there you are: one example of a 2nd gen Colt which was not fit correctly.

BTW, I read the PDF at BlueBook.
Very interesting.
It seems like the dates for the dragoons and walkers on page 30, don't match those on page 32, unless I'm having a reading comprehension issue here.

 

[J.T. Gerrity]

The 2nd generation is widely considered to be the finest-made of all Colt reissues. It's not considered a reproduction, because it was finished and sold by the original maker.
Those who yell, "Spaghetti Colts!" need to remember that many Winchesters have been made by Miroku of Japan, and Fabrique Nationale of Belgium, yet they are collectively called Winchesters.
I don't hear the derogatory terms of "Wasabi Winchesters" or "Flemish Winchesters" applied to them.

Colt did finish a few of the early 2nd gen ("C" series), then turned everything over to Lou Imperato and the gang in New York (finally making the "Address New York City" claim Colt had used for 150 years an honest statement) for final fit and finish ("F" series), and these are the same folks who continued their work on the 3rd gen stuff; however, the majority of raw parts for all 2nd and 3rd gens were always produced in Italy and finished here, whether it was done at Colt's or not.

Colt himself opened a shop overseas, and I don't think anyone has any less of an opinion of the "London" models than any other authentic Colt, even though they weren't made in the good 'ol USA...

 

[CraigC]

Well, to be honest, Japanese Winchesters are very, very well made premium guns. Although some, myself included, abhor the rebounding hammers and tang safeties they feature. Some of the finest firearms ever produced by human hands have come from London. Italian Colt replicas, that's a different story altogether.

 

[Jaymo]

Spaghetti Colts!!!! Real Colts are made 100% in the USA. Call them what you want, but they are Spaghetti Colts.
Assembled and finished in the USA by Imperato, from parts made in Italy does NOT make the gun a Colt. Colt can stamp their name on it all day long, it doesn't change the fact that they were not made by Colt in a Colt factory.

There, I had to say it.
I don't consider "American" cars with Mexican wiring harnesses and sundry Chinese parts in them to be American.

Miroku makes nice guns. My DGW Tennessee Mountain Rifle flintlock was made by Miroku and I wouldn't trade it for the world.
I like my Sushi Gunworks.
I also liked my Goulash High Power (FEG) .
Love my Lasagna 75s. (TZ75 and Witness).
Then there's my SKS Foo-Yung and General Tso's 47. Like them too.

Just like I'd like Spaghetti Colts if I had any.

 

[junkman_01]

Jaymo,

I have always held that position too.

 

[Jaymo]

Mark this day. Junkman and I agree on something.

I don't dislike the Uberti/Colts, but they are NOT Colts. A Python is a Colt.
The Spaghetti Colts were a way for Colt to charge colt prices for a gun that was made in Italy. It was borderline fraud on the part of Colt.
Sell a Uberti as a real Colt. Charge Colt prices for something that is intrinsically worth little more than the average Uberti.
I assemble my Pietta Colt copies after every cleaning. That does not make them US made.

Imagine the uproar if S&W had sold guns that were made in China, assembled in the USA by a 3rd party company, and called them Smiths and charged Smith prices for them.
Sacrilege.

 

[junkman_01]

 

[Jaymo]

Or if Ferrari tried to sell a Hyundai that was painted Ferrari red by Ferrari, and called it a Ferrari and charged Ferrari prices for it?

 

[CraigC]

IMHO, the only real advantage to the 2nd and 3rd generation Colt percussion guns is the authentic case coloring. Italian colors sometimes turn out nice, like this Open Top .44Colt, but there's no substitute for the real thing.




Most of them look more like this Taylor's .32-20:

 

[Jaymo]

CraigC makes a good point. I love my Pedersoli Howdah, but the color case isn't anything to write home about.