Did I ruin my Walker?

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Recently I bought a Uberti Walker. I've been shooting 55 to 60 grains of Goex black powder but I tried 2 30 grain pellets of Pyrodex under .454 round balls. After cleaning I noticed about 25 thousandths of gap between the cylinder and barrel, which I am sure was up close and fairly snug before. And the wedge is in tight. Was that too much pressure for this gun and have I damaged it by possibly bending that massive cylinder pin? I haven't shot it since I noticed this so I don't know if accuracy has been affected which was quite good before. Or is this normal for breakin and something I shouldn't be alarmed about. Please don't tell me I have ruined this fine piece and I did something real stupid!
 
One: Where are you getting the 25 thou figure? That sounds like an awful lot. Did you use a feeler gauge? Standard, ruled spiral notebook paper is right at about 3 thousandths, for reference.

Two: 55 and 60 grain charges are commonly used in the Walker. It shouldn't have been a problem, Pyrodex or black.

Three: The gap is more apparent at some times than at others, depending on the position of the hammer. In half-cock or full cock, you have to compress the hand spring to see the gap. With the hammer down, you have to compress the mainspring to see it because the hammer forced the cylinder forward. If you pull the hammer back just a little bit from the hammer-down position, the bolt is unlocked, the hand is still back out of the way, and the cylinder is free to slide front-to-back without resistance.

No doubt there will be some peening upon firing your first several shots. Get a feeler gauge set at the auto parts store and be sure, or use paper. A matchbook cover is typically about 12 thou. I doubt you have much more gap than that. Heavy, common, cheap flier paper (not quite card stock) is about 5 thou.
 
Thanks for responding Omnivore

I will have a feeler guage available sometime this morning but I can double up a matchbook cover and slide it in as you suggested which tells me I am at least 24 thousandths. The gap is evident at all times except when the hammer is at full cock, but you can push the cylinder back against the spring and see it. When you drop the hammer the gaps shows up again so the hammer is evidently not contacting an open nipple. The hammer lock and trigger mechanism seem to be unchanged. But when you pick it up and shake it back and forth when it is cleaned there is noticable slop back and forth in the cylinder which before Sunday was nice and snug. Is 60 grains of two Pyrodex pellets stacked on top of each other under a .454 round ball or even a .454 conical "right side up" of course with bore butter over the lead a bad combination considering that less Pyrodex is used when comparing to black powder charges of equal grams by volumn. Have other Walker owners went up this high with Pyrodex pellets and with the hole down thru the center of them pellets does that leave too much air space in the charge? I know one thing and that is I'll never go over 50 grains of Goex again because that is plenty to have fun and shoot this gun. I appreciate your response and hope for more discussion. I would post on the Walker page but haven't figured out how to do it yet. Thanks Again. Elbert
 
First of all, you didn't bend the base pin with 60 gr, so don't worry about that.

You say the wedge is in tight, but tight means many things. The cylinder end gap is controlled by the wedge position. I'm going to suggest you lightly tap the wedge in further using a hammer against a wood block and see if that doesn't reduce the cylinder end gap. The wedge and it's slot in the barrel assembly and the base pin on a new gun need to wear a little before they're all working together. You may need a few insertions/removals with the gentle help of a hammer before everything sorts itself out.

The wedge cannot be "too tight", as it's correct position is determined by the cylinder end gap. When the end gap is correct, the wedge is in the right place. It may be very difficult to push in to that position or to remove, requiring the use of a hammer and a wood cushion to prevent damaging the finish, but eventually that will work itself out.

This isn't an unheard of problem with a brand new Colt.
 
Two 30 grain Pyro pellets is a VERY hot load. Considerably hotter than 60 grains of granular Goex. Pyrodex now makes a 45/50 pellet, I'm not even sure I'd try that in a percussion revolver.
 
Many of the Italian repro-cap & ball revolvers are made with soft steel wedges. These deform pretty fast when using heavy loads. If you look carefully at your wedge you will probably see where it is deformed. The wedge bears against the forward part of the wedge slot on the cylinder pin and the rear of the wedge mortice in the barrel assembly. The cylinder pin is usually hard enough to resist, but the barrel may be soft metal. Also, shooting the pistol with heavy loads when the wedge is loose or barrel-cylinder gap is more than about .007 (.005 is best) will accelerate wedge battering.

The Colt 1860 Army and the 1847 Walker are the models most likely to show accelerated wedge battering. Make a new wedge of tool steel and harden it, or buy a replacement and have someone case-harden it. Original wedges were made very hard and also considered normal wear and tear items. This is why most old Colts that saw any amount of use rarely have original serial-numbered wedges in place.
 
I haven't shot my uberti walker yet but after reading this thread I set my cylinder gap to 007 thousandths and it looks like the wedge went in pretty far to achieve this measurement. On the right side where the screw is I have about 1/8 of an inch of travel left before the screw touches the end of the wedge channel. Is this normal or is something out of wack?
Also the hammer face doesn't force the cylinder forward when the hammer is down, the hammer is just barely touching the nipple. When I put the hammer down on a capped nipple there is plenty of hammer to bust a cap.
I've got an 1858 remington and a rogers and spencer but this is my first colt style revolver, just trying to figure it out, your help is appreciated.
 
On a perfectly timed percussion revolver the hammer does not touch the bare nipple; it stops just after striking the cap and driving it into the nipple - essentially the thickness of the cap metal. Sounds like you got it.

The wedge position sounds a bit far in to me, but if it results in the condition you described, I'd say it's good. A new wedge would probably not be that far in until it wore a little.
 
I just found the reason

I took the wedge out after noticing that the barrel frame right behind the wedge was swelled up on both sides. Evidently this wedge is harder than the frame because that hot load of 60 pellet Pyrodex resulted in the frame slamming into the wedge resulting in the swelling which is causing the excess gap of up to 25 thousandths. Is this something that Uberti would replace or is something I have to live with?:banghead:
 
Who did you buy the WALKER from chances are you may be able to exchange it. Especially if you bought it from someone like Cabelas. OH and one more thing you need to join our WALKER club. We will have to all put our heads together and figure out how to get your WALKER replaced.
 
Thanks for inviting me to join. Just tell me how and where! I bought this gun from a gun shop for 300 dollars new and unfired because the previous owner discovered that mispellings were on the frame and he didn't want it afterall so they refunded him and dropped the price because the frame had ADDRESS. SAM.L COTL NEY-WORK CITY. I wanted it just for that reason plus I've always wanted a Walker and I thought this misspelled piece might be worth alot more money in time. I will be contacting Uberti to see if they will replace with the leverage also that nothing is even spelled right on this piece. It looks like it got caught between the translation between Italian and English. I did learn though that you can stuff enough propellant in one of these things and do a pretty good number on one!
 
I'm very surprised that a 60 gr load would damage a Uberti Walker like you described. Recoil loads are transmitted from the cylinder to the recoil shield in back of the cylinder, since it is free to move fore and aft on the base pin. There is no mechanism to transmit recoil and damage the barrel frame in the location you describe. It is possible the chamber was not properly aligned with the barrel bore and the round impacted the edge of the forcing cone, driving the assembly forward, but that's a glancing blow and even with 60 grs of powder the load would not be enough to cause as much damage as you describe.

First of all, are you sure the gun is a Uberti and not a Palmetto? Describe the markings on the gun. Uberti does not mark the Walker frame with the Colt name and address as you describe, and they certainly would not have made the spelling errors you found. I suspect the gun is a Palmetto kit.

Given the damage you describe the barrel assembly will need to be replaced. If the gun is a Uberti I doubt they would replace the damaged parts directly. They rarely interact directly with US customers, preferring to go through their distributors, and since this gun was owned by another person there is no warranty path that you can take.

VIT gun parts carries Uberti Walker parts.
https://www.vtigunparts.com/ab2240000Equick/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=71&cat=Uberti+1847+Walker+%2E44cal
The barrel assembly is part no. UB:020003 and costs $110. But be absolutely certain it is a Uberti before you order it as iit's unlikely to fit properly if the gun is a different brand.

To join the THR Walker club go to the thread named THR Walker Club and post a message asking to join. That's all there is to it. Requirements are that you now own, have previously owned or would like to own a Walker and are a member of the THR forums.
 
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Good Morning, The information underneath the loading lever is a follows: CIMARRON F. A. CO., FBG., TX, 78624 .44 CAL BLACK POWDER ONLY-A. BERTI-ITALY. And also the loading lever spring which holds it up snapped in half last nite just putting the lever back up with no undo force. Gosh:confused:
 
The loading lever clip can be purchased from VTI parts. id recommend getting a couple of them. As they are porbably the weakest part in a WALKER
 
Elbert ..could have been a casting defect on the inside ...air bubble or such ..easy to replace being dovetailed in ...it happens . They would have to do an xray on these parts to catch something like that ..then the price would be ..way up there ..
 
The information underneath the loading lever is a follows: CIMARRON F. A. CO., FBG., TX, 78624 .44 CAL BLACK POWDER ONLY-A. BERTI-ITALY.

I'm surprised somebody hasn't suggested this yet:

Try contacting Cimarron Firearms and let them know about the problem. Even though you aren't the original owner, they may fix the gun without charge, or at very least for a reduced cost.

Then again, they may not, but it's at least worth a try.
Cimarron Firearms Co. Inc.



J.C.
 
I contacted Cimarron Arms and talked to their black powder man. I told him about the mispelling and he said that Uberti did that on purpose to draw interest with the collection crowd. And they did a hundred of them with mispelled words. He also said it was around ten years old and couldn't fix it free. He thought the only way the barrel frame could be jammed into the wedge was a misalignment with the bullet jamming it forward. So I called the gun shop where I bought it and explained the situation and he said he would refund my 300 dollars. He has another one which he said he would let me have for 300 dollars extra but it is made by Colt. Does anybody know if these are worth 600 dollars or any better than the Italians? I have seen this one and it is a little shorter in the barrel and has a loading lever latch up front like the 58 Remingtons.
 
Colt's Manufacturing Company made two different series (the C Series and the F Series) of Second Generation black powder revolvers between 1971 and 1982 in their Hartford plant. They were assembled and finished by Colt employees using Colt processes and expertise from parts made by the Italian replica manufacturers. They are considered premium quality guns, much better than the Italian replicas.

The Walker was only produced in the F Series; the value could very well be worth the extra $300 or even more. The Fifth Edition of the Blue Book of Modern Black Powder Arms lists (on page 49) a 100% F Series Second Generation Walker as worth $1000, but as always, condition matters greatly. A 98% gun is down to $725, and 90% is $450. These guns were marked like the original Walkers. Most had 4 digit serial numbers, but some 244 were made with a 5 digit serial number; they command a 20% premium. In addition, there was a presentation model called the Heritage Walker made under the F Series that is worth about 10% more than the regular one.

A Third Generation Walker was then produced by another company named Colt Blackpowder Arms, Inc. Again, Italian parts were assembled in the US; many of the craftsmen were former Colt employees, and these guns are also considered premium quality Colts. They are distinguished a silver backstrap with Sam Colt's signaure, and they are known as the Signature Series. The values start at $650 for a 100% gun, then $525 and $415 for 98% and 90% respectively.

Of course, Blue Book values are a guide only. Actual prices can and do vary considerably, and condition is all important with these guns.

I'd say the dealer is being quite fair with you, depending on the actual model and condition of the gun he wants to sell you.
 
I just reread your post after seeing Scrat's comment. Yes, it does sound like he's proposing to give you a Dragoon. That changes the values I quoted.

The Dragoons were made in both the C and F Series Second Generation models, and there were many different Special Edition Dragoons made in both series as well. The picture becomes much more complicated. The standard C Series 3rd Dragoon values at $725/100%. The standard F Series 3rd Dragoon values at $675/100%. The Third Generation Signature Series 3rd Dragoon values at $600/100%. As in the Second Generation guns, there were also some Third Generation special editions to further muddy the water. Whew!

BTW, I would take a Colt manufactured Dragoon in trade for the damaged Walker and $300, depending on the condition.
 
I found it is a Colt Dragoon and have set it back for trade and purchase. He is more than fair and if anybody wants a collectable broke Walker you can let me know. Does this mean I can still join the Walker Club if I own a Dragoon and only had a Walker for a short time.:D
 
Yes you can. NOW lets talk about that WALKER. Could make for some good parts. Not to sure if its worth fixing. But it sure sounds like a good parts gun.

Do a post on the walker thread. if you have a pic of it post it.
 
I hate to sound like an ******* but have you considered just throwing it out the window and buying a new Walker? It sound's like every part in it had been stressed out except for maybe the wooden grip panels and they may have a hairline fracture in them....
 
GOC throwing it out the window. he was going to give it to us for parts.


I got first dibs on the cylinder.
 
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