Dillon 550 -VS- HornadyLnL

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Last nigh I recieved my LNL press and discovered the real story on The LNL Powder measure whcih has been omitted by everyone singing its praises here is the real scoop:


I wrote

on a 550B you keep a powder die set in each tool head and that sets the belling depth, then you move the measure from one tool head to another and adjust the powder drop when you change calibers (Mentioned because every time this comes up somone says the caliber conversions each require a seperate powder measure)."
Click to expand...


Dave wrote with regard to the powder measure:

You just swap in a micrometer insert dial it in with a thumb and forefinger to the setting you want and the powder measure is set up. Easy as pie though it is a good idea to record the setting when you record your load for future reference. To be fair, last I knew, the micrometer inserts were extras, but worth it.
Click to expand...

So according to everyone here that has posted on the Hornady powder measure conversion kit deal, I can go from .45 acp to .44 magnum, and I dont have to remove the Hornady powder measure, or adjust it other than plugging in a new insert for the powder drop.

WRONG!!!

The height of the Hornady powder measure must be adjusted manually by trial and error!! Unless you buy a sperate powder die and LNL bushing for each caliber you load. So if I go from .45 acp to .44 magnum, I have to remove the Hornady powder measure from the press, and by trial and error adjust the height of the powder die, screwing it out, or it will crush the .44 mag case, it doesnt matter if I use the belling funnel or not, the height of the powder die must be adjusted manually for each caliber, or you must buy a sperate powder die $20, and a lnl bushing $3 for each caliber you load so you can preset the height of the measure on the press.

Add $23 to each Hornady conversion for each caliber, or you could buy a seperate measure for each one you know so you dont have to unclamp it and reset the powder die height:rolleyes: just like the Dillon 550B.
 
"The height of the Hornady powder measure must be adjusted manually by trial and error!! Unless you buy a sperate powder die and LNL bushing for each caliber you load. So if I go from .45 acp to .44 magnum, I have to remove the Hornady powder measure from the press, and by trial and error adjust the height of the powder die, screwing it out, or it will crush the .44 mag case, it doesnt matter if I use the belling funnel or not, the height of the powder die must be adjusted manually for each caliber, or you must buy a sperate powder die $20, and a lnl bushing $3 for each caliber you load so you can preset the height of the measure on the press.

Add $23 to each Hornady conversion for each caliber, or you could buy a seperate measure for each one you know so you dont have to unclamp it and reset the powder die height just like the Dillon 550B."

OH, for Pete's sake, how long are you gonna go on running down a product you bought? If you don't like it, send it back and buy your self a Dillon and spare the rest of us the buyer's remorse.

I didn't remember to mention adjusting the powder die base, but that's because the thing takes about 20 seconds to adjust if you're not a total mechanical klutz and with it being so easy, it didn't come to mind. You don't screw it in and out of toolhead like you do on the Dillon, all you do is loosen the die locking collar and crank it up and down a few threads or two on the die until the measure rises to it's highest non binding point, big whoops.

If you aren't able to or can't stand taking the 20 seconds, the corect retail price (from Midway) of the powder die isn't $20.00, even at full retail, it's $15.29:

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=231522

Cruffler's discount gets one for $13.00 or thereabouts. I've never bought one in six years of using the press, though I might buy one IF I add one of the new CAPD's.

As far as the extra die bushing goes, that's $3.00 retail and $2.60 with a Cruffler's license. So if you did buy one (and I still can't think of a reason why you'd need to, though you might want to) it's cost $18.29 or $15.60 with a cruffler's license. And if you did buy one,

For someone that's used to cranking a single Dillon measure in and out of toolheads, you ought to appreciate that, but you don't. I suggest to you that if you can't overcome your buyer's remorse (A conclusion I'm reaching based on your continuous attacking of the Hornady over the course of the thread. I don't need to read your mind, it's in black and white.) and appreciate the press on it's own merits, then return it and buy a Dillon and be happy.
 
Now, Now touchy aren't we. Its almost like I insulted someones mother or something.:uhoh:

I'm just mentioning a little factoid everybody glosses right over, when they are Dillon bashing and calling folks names like Blue Koolaid drinker, Drama Queen etc.

When you read about the Hornady lock n load compared to a Dillon press, it operates by itself, requires no adjustments, YOU GET IT FOR FREE and the Dillon costs a million dollars etc...
And if you question the Hornady worshipers they then resort to name calling.

Just interjecting a little reality into what seems to be a one sided debate everytime it comes up :scrutiny:

I can't recall calling anyone names here, not highroad is it.:)
 
Your own statements prove what has been said about the Hornady LnL whole time. You bought a press with 650 performance for about the price of a 550. No one every told you any different. Not in this thread, not in any other. The bottom line is, the Hornady LnL performs as well, with some unique features that are better, for the price of a 550.

You just got the press, aren't familiar with it (like you are your Dillon you've had for years), so it's different. It's on you to either work with it and understand it and get comfortable with it or send it back for what is comfortable.

You're implying someone distorted the facts to you. Well, no one did. As a buyer of a product, it's your obligation to find out all the facts, not only through a forum, but from the manufacturer's BEFORE you make your purchase so you'll have everything when you get the press, then, when you've selected your product, make sure all the items you want are in stock, etc.

Be responsible for your own decisions.

Your various comments indicate you did none of the above, but rather, ordered off the cuff and thereby violated the five P's: Prior Planning Prevents Poor Performance. Don't blame others for your lack of diligence if you're not happy.

I'm on about three tons of allergy medications for an allergic reaction I'm having, so they're making me irritable as all get out, so I apologize for allowing the medication to get the best of me and getting ugly.

But frankly, you aren't taking responsibility for your own decisions and you are are stating others have lied or deliberately deceived. No one has. The pictures and descriptions of the products are right there, on Hornady's and Midway's websites for you to read. If you didn't, that's on you.
 
But frankly, you aren't taking responsibility for your own decisions and you are are stating others have lied or deliberately deceived.
Click to expand...

Please take a deep breath and relax, I am not accusing or blaming anyone for anything. I just think that there is a whole lot of emotion in this Dillon Hornady thing that really isn't necessary. And a bit of distortion as to the real difference in cost betwwen the two presses.

I now plan to load all of my higher volume loads on the LNL, and my lower volume ones on the dillon 550 but who knows that may change.

And thank you for your patience and help.
 
"And a bit of distortion as to the real difference in cost betwwen the two presses."

You mean like that $20.00 price you were quoting on the LnL powder measure die that was actually $15.29 full retail at Midway?

BTW, if you take the price of a 550 powder measure from Brian Enos website $67.50, you can buy 2 of those powder dies (if you feel you need them) at $15.60 (full retail) and 3 of the powder through expanders at $8.79 (full retail) and still have $9.93 left over to pay for shipping. Then, with the powder measure base die you already have, you now have the convenience of having, what, four pistol powder measure setups for the price of a single Dillon powder measure.

So especially when you're seeking ultimate convenience and minimal adjustment, the Hornady ends up being less expensive. And that's comparing the LnL to the 550, not the 650. Hmm, that's a cheap enough convenience, I may just have to buy me one. Thanks for pointing that out.
 
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Oh, well - - -

vts, my apologies. One of these days, I'm going to learn to scan thread titles and pay extra attention to ANY thread that includes "vs" or "versus" in the title. Such a thread frequently gets some thread drift early on, and collapses right into a highjack.

That having been the case in this thread, I'll ask that the two major "contributors" do me a personal favor: Please, PRETTY please, take a break and sit out the remainder of this thread.

vts, please feel free to re-state any part of your question that hasn't been covered. Thanks for your patience, and thanks to all participants for your cooperation.

Johnny
 
I am still considering the Blue vs Red question for my first progressive and I love following these threads. Even when the emotion comes out I find it fascinating to see the passion that we reloaders have for our hobby. A progressive reloading machine is a significant investment for most of us and can be a source of immeasurable pleasure or pain so it's not surprising that people feel so strongly about their equipment. As long as you try to base your comments on fact/experience and don't make personal insults, then I certainly welcome anyone's input.

Obvioulsly there are some aspects that are subjective such as the "feel" or how smooth a particular press operates but those of us still trying to decide DO want to hear personal opinion as well (again assuming you have first hand experience and are not just regurgitating marketing propaganda)

...so MasterBlaster and Dave, keep it coming, I think you have both of you have done well demonstrating your viewpoints without getting too personal!!

Blaster, since you have a 550 and are now ramping up with the LnL I look forward to hearing your comparisons between them in the future....I know it will be an interesting and informative read! :D
 
PC Aka Plastic Cowboy,

If you want good info on Blue check out Brian Enos web site, It is excellent! Search THR for Red info, and there is some (red) info in in Brian's non Dillon Forum... Good luck on your journey!
 
I've used the Hornady system for a month or so and find some thing great and some things not so great. I've never used the blue machines.

IMO the LNL did require tinkering and tweaking. Nothing was a huge problem IMO and for me- I want high volume production, but it's a fun hobby for me... so the tinkering is not a big deal... frustrating at times but not a problem. And I've never used a progressive so I was starting from scratch.

- Love the bushings
- Love the auto indexing- no "timing" issues for me.
- Love the 5 stages
- Love the primer system
- Love the old primer tube for disposal of old primers
- Love the robust mfrg of the system
- Love the quick change powder drop die

-Don't like the ejection wire (I got it working fine, but I think it could be better- besides some dies won't fit because of it)
-Althought the CAPD is nice, I'm not confident in the powder thru expanders. I think they could be better. Mine fit tight as hell and I think they really open us the cases too much below the case mouth. I'm not using them currently which precludes my ability to use a powder cop since I bell separately now.
-Didn't like the linkage on the CAPD- mine was binding and I filed it for smoother operation.
-Don't like that it needs a pistol rotor/assembly for good pistol loads


Am I pleased? Damn yeah! I'd do it again in a second. But since it's so easy to swap out calibers, I'll stick with just one. :)
 
Luggernut- that's the kind of stuff I was talking about, information like that is so helpful when learning about the particulars of the different machines.

I've spent lots of time on Brian Eno's website so I know most of the operational details about both presses. Actual experience like this is what I'm looking for now.

-Thanks
 
I just think that there is a whole lot of emotion in this Dillon Hornady thing that really isn't necessary.
Click to expand...

Are you kidding, this is mellow. Go to Glock Talk and see how bad it is between Blue and Red.
VTS, sorry I don't own either press. I own a Lee Classic Turret. Good luck with whatever you decide to buy. Load safe and shoot often.
Rusty
 
I totally agree with what LuggerNut said about and will add:

-Love the cost.

-Hate the Documentation! It sucks at best. They need to make a video like Dillon does. That's a great idea!
 
Yep-- that pretty much what I've gotten from several of these discussions, price is pretty good especially when doing mulitple calibers (as I intend to do). But everyone agrees that the instructions are very poor, especially for such a complex machine.

It certainly would not be that expensive to include a CD/DVD video that demonstrates how to use it. Heck- it could be done with a digital camcorder for the price of a couple of fully loaded LnL presses.

Maybe I should make one and get rich!!! :scrutiny:
 
VS,

I just went from a Dillon 550 to a Hornady L-N-L AP. I considered upgrading to the Dillon 650 but every time I read about them I hear the caliber changes for the 650 are longer than doing them on the 550. That is why I chose to upgrade to the Hornady. My reasons? Auto-indexing, case activated powder drop like the Dillons, the ability to use a powder cop die, case feeder and quick caliber changes.

In my opinion, there is no doubt that the Hornady L-N-L AP with the current 1,000 bullet promotion blows the pricing away as far as initial press costs for the Dillon 550 or 650. It's a great deal and I feel the Hornady is a more modern press. I feel it is designed for easy caliber changes. It probably has the same amount of moving parts as the Dillon 550/650.

I feel that the bushing system, the lack of shellplate buttons and the powder measure metering inserts make the Hornady a better press overall. In order to accomplish the same ease and quickness of caliber changes in the Dillon line you would want to have additional powder measures and from what I hear, you'll want an entire primer set-up on the 650. That isn't mentioning the toolhead stands to keep your assembled set-up standing up straight.

My Dillon 550 worked flawlessly out of the box. They even talked me through my first die set-up. Their customer service is fantastic. My Hornady press has issues. The powder-through-expanders are screwed up. It works great without the powder through expander but then you cannot use a powder cope die and must use the expander die.

There are some machining variances that cause the entire assembly from the powder measure down through to the expander to not work as advertised. I have been speaking wtih Ken in their engineering department and he is working through the issues. They assure me they will fix the problem. They seem to be customer service oriented but are having some quality issues. They have sent me free parts (overnight even) to get my press up and running. I have confidence that once this is fixed I will be extremely happy with my decision.

Additionally, if you purchase their die sets you can get 100 free bullets of your choosing from a list on the rebate form. In going from a fully loaded Dillon 550 to the Hornady I can tell you I miss the strong mount, bullet tray and aluminum roller handle tremendously. They really make it a stable and ergonomic press.

The whole cost topic seems to be thrown around a bit and Master Blaster did bring up a valid issue with many of the cost comparison arguments brought up here. Here is what I see as a comparison. Let's look at adding one caliber change between the Dillon 650 and a L-N-L AP for 45ACP assuming you stay within the manufacturer for all items:

Dillon 650 caliber conversion, carbide dies, toolhead and powder die: $157.79

Hornady L-N-L AP shellplate, nitride dies, 3 bushings, powder die, powder-through-expander: $98.05

Difference: $59.74 in favor of the Hornady caliber change. And that is with including the expander which really isn't needed. It just puts things on par with the Dillon 650 and it's ability to check for low and double-charge powder checking.

* The prices were compiled from brianenos.com and midwayusa.com.

With this configuration, the caliber change time to 45ACP on each press is about the same assuming you do NOT have to change the primer system. In both configurations, you'll still have to fiddle with the powder measure metering to get it dialed in for your load.

The real benefit of the Hornady is that with an additional $8.99 metering insert there is no time spent dialing back in the powder measure. You replace the insert and you are good to go. No fiddling around which is where you spend most of your time. The metering insert allows for repeatable powder measure settings with zero re-adjustment time. Adjusting, throwing, measuring, repeat. Although I hear that Hornady powder measure is the same as the RCBS Uniflow and are supposedly more accurate than the Dillon powder bar system, I can't confirm that but it does seem logical based on design.

Add another seating die, bushing and a metering insert and you can have a set-up for a totally different load in the same caliber. That's real handy if you use two different bullets or load for two different 45ACP handguns that like their own special loads.

If it wasn't for the problem I have with the powder through expanders right now, I'd say the Hornady kills the Dillon line for versatility, cost and ease of use. At this point, I am not 100% certain but have a high confidence I made the right choice going with the "underdog."

I hope this helps!

--AJ
 
Dillon 650 caliber conversion, carbide dies, toolhead and powder die: $157.79

Hornady L-N-L AP shellplate, nitride dies, 3 bushings, powder die, powder-through-expander: $98.05

Difference: $59.74 in favor of the Hornady caliber change. And that is with including the expander which really isn't needed. It just puts things on par with the Dillon 650 and it's ability to check for low and double-charge powder checking.
Click to expand...

You forgot to add the $17 hornady crimp die and another $3 bushing to be equivelent. Dillon dies come with seperate seat and crimp dies; a standard hornady set does not.
 
You forgot to add the $17 hornady crimp die and another $3 bushing to be equivelent. Dillon dies come with seperate seat and crimp dies; a standard hornady set does not.
Click to expand...

That's a good point. You are going to be left with the Hornady expander die being unused in an effort to compare presses being used in an identical manner. I just looked at pricing on Midway and it doesn't make sense to buy just the Hornady size die and seating die. They add up to be more than the 3-die set.
 
Yes it does seem that you need to buy the taper crimp die seperately, for the auto calibers that headspace on the case mouth, 9mm .45acp, .40 S&W.
The revolver calibers, like .357 mag .44mag, .45 colt that use a roll crimp do not need a seperate crimp die since the hornady seating dies do roll crimp.

What issues are you experiencing with the belling funnel and in what caliber do you see problems? Does the .45 acp belling funnel work?

Thanks.
 
Johnny Guest......... Thank you

After my favorite moderator have ....moderated...... this post I'm getting really good info.
This post got carried away, lets admit it. Both Dillon and Hornady are good machines. They both have upsides and they both have down sides.
The question is what up side do i need and what down side can i tolerate.
Hornadys LnL is a new comer so one must expect some problems (how long has it been on the marked?). But when its running it should give 650 like performance.

The Dillon 550 is a dam good press from what i hear. But there is a few thing that i personally think is missing. This is my first progressive press and i what the RCBS lock-out-die....... just in case, so i need a five station press. It is not auto indexing, that may or may not be a problem but i what a progressive machine. Whit that in mind i need the Dillon 650.

So fare I'm in favor of the Hornady LnL:eek:

I'm not raging down on Dillon or any other press. I just think this is the one fore me
I'm sure there will be days ill regret it, but I'll get over it:evil:

Thank you all for your feed back. Please keep em coming, now that it's a little more civilized ill keep reading

All and all i think this is a good post whit good feed back.
So once again....Johnny Guest......... Thank you

PS: DaveInFloweryBranchGA and Master Blaster. Thank you fore your feed back and passion for your machines. I have read every thing you guys wrote and it was help full to start whit, but in the end is was just to much focus on money. One might be wrong by $5.76.....thats ok. If one press comes out a few bucks more than the other it wont be a huge deal fore me.
So please keep em coming boys....just play nice
 
You forgot to add the $17 Hornady crimp die and another $3 bushing to be equivelent. Dillon dies come with seperate seat and crimp dies; a standard hornady set does not.
Click to expand...

Some Hornady pistol die sets do come with the taper crimp die (e.g. 454 Casul), at no extra cost.

Or you can crimp with the Hornady seating die. How many thousands, if not millions, of rounds have been crimped while seating, before Dillon convinced us we needed an extra die and station to crimp with? Dillon die sets come with a neutered seating die that won't crimp, and the whole die has to be unlocked, screwed in/out, and relocked, just to adjust the seating depth.

Plus, you can use the Hornady expander die that comes with their sets, avoid having to fine-adjust the powder die (or swap it out) for the expansion, and still have room for a powder check/lockout die.

Andy
 
Some Hornady pistol die sets do come with the taper crimp die (e.g. 454 Casul), at no extra cost.

Or you can crimp with the Hornady seating die. How many thousands, if not millions, of rounds have been crimped while seating, before Dillon convinced us we needed an extra die and station to crimp with? Dillon die sets come with a neutered seating die that won't crimp, and the whole die has to be unlocked, screwed in/out, and relocked, just to adjust the seating depth.

Plus, you can use the Hornady expander die that comes with their sets, avoid having to fine-adjust the powder die (or swap it out) for the expansion, and still have room for a powder check/lockout die.
Click to expand...
What "common" pistol caliber hornady die set comes with a seperate crimp die? The original issue was caliber conversion cost and dillon dies were used for the 650 conversion. A seperate hornady crimp die is required for an even cost and functional comparison (this was acknowledged by Empyrean).

If you expand and drop powder in seperate stations AND use a powder check die, then die station number 5 is the only one left for seating and crimping. That won't work well. I checked on my press and a hornady seating die will crunch the ejector wire in the 5th die station. You could remove the ejector wire and then be able to seat/crimp in #5, but loaded rounds would have to be removed by hand instead of auto-eject. That kind of defeats the purpose of an auto-indexing press especially compared to a 650 that doesn't require short crimp dies.
 
It seems to me that Hornady should address the ejector issue with this press since it limits the ability to use a powder check die,and to use any other manufacturers crimp/seat die, and even the Hornady revolver caliber roll crimp/seat in station 5. Once I have all the parts for mine in hand, which will be sometime next week (after some digging around, I did find a vendor with a pistol rotor and a shell plate #1).

I will see if there is a way to modify the ejector so the dies will clear it, and a powder check die can be used, otherwise the 4 stations on the Dillon 550 do the same thing as 5 stations on the Hornady. And yes you can use the powder check die on the dillon, you just have to use a seating die that also crimps in station 4, and the powder check die will work fine in station 3.

I just have to make sure the two presses don't fight with each other on my bench. maybe my RCBS rock chucker can referee:neener:
 
As I mentioned on another thread, I just logged in the 38,000th round on the LnL. I have no opinion on Dillon. Never seen one in action. Never been in the same room with one. I went through the red/blue agony a few years ago and went with LnL. I load everything from .380 to 300 WSM. Lots of .45 ACP this past year. Some .204 Ruger, .223 & .308. Need to replenish my 9mm and just set that up before coming up to check the forums.

Friends of mine at the gun club are Dillon fans. They make good bullets. I liked the features and price of the LnL. Not trying to convert anyone.
 
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