Dillon Seating Die Issue...?

[Saluki91]

I recently noticed that my Dillon seating die was not producing consistent OAL... like not even close. .005" variance or more - yikes! If it is important, I run this on an XL750.

This is disappointing, as I really like the ease in which I can switch the Dillon plug from RN to FP.

Am I missing something in setting up this die? Is this my excuse to take the plunge on a Redding or Lyman micrometer die? Are my expectations unrealistic?

Thanks!

 

[runner3264]

What caliber are you loading? What type of bullet? .005 Is nothing! Perfectly normal. Bullet ogives are different even in the same manufacture run of the same bullet. You're all good!

 

[nettlle]

Which Dillon?

 

[Saluki91]

What caliber are you loading? What type of bullet? .005 Is nothing! Perfectly normal. Bullet ogives are different even in the same manufacture run of the same bullet. You're all good!

9mm - Bullets were Acme 147gr LFP and a 145gr TMJ HP that I got from American Reloading.

Thanks!

 

[nettlle]

Which Dillon?

 

[Saluki91]

Which Dillon?

Seating die from the carbide pistol set - 9mm

 

[nettlle]

Which Dillon?

 

[JFrank]

I recently noticed that my Dillon seating die was not producing consistent OAL... like not even close. .005" variance or more - yikes! If it is important, I run this on an XL750.

This is disappointing, as I really like the ease in which I can switch the Dillon plug from RN to FP.

Am I missing something in setting up this die? Is this my excuse to take the plunge on a Redding or Lyman micrometer die? Are my expectations unrealistic?

Thanks!

You would likely have the same problem, I would look at neck tension consistency or the seating stem is making contact with the meplats… something along those lines is my bet.
I was speaking for rifle seating dies so for pistols I can’t help. Sorry

 

[runner3264]

Likely they are being seated by the ogive of the bullet. And I say again, .005 is nothing. The tip of the bullet has NO bearing except for making sure it isn't over the required COL and can move in the magazine freely. The sides of the bullet is what rides along the lands and grooves of the barrel. You'll notice the bullets aren't the same length so the ogive will be different on each bullet in a slight manner

 

[dcloco]

9mm - Bullets were Acme 147gr LFP and a 145gr TMJ HP that I got from American Reloading.

Thanks!

Bullet variance is the issue......

 

[nettlle]

Please reply with your answer. Sure as heck can't get you to reply to questions.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Is this my excuse to take the plunge on a Redding or Lyman micrometer die? Are my expectations unrealistic?

This is the perfect excuse to get the Redding Competition Seating die

I really like the ease in which I can switch the Dillon plug from RN to FP.

With the Redding, you never have to switch the seating plug because the Redding plug only contacts the bullet on it ogive

 

[9mmepiphany]

Please reply with your answer. Sure as heck can't get you to reply to questions.

Please stop.

Have you read the entire OP?
The question you keep asking is answered in the first sentence of the OP.

 

[Saluki91]

This is the perfect excuse to get the Redding Competition Seating die


With the Redding, you never have to switch the seating plug because the Redding plug only contacts the bullet on it ogive

Hmmmm... I'll open negotiations with Mrs. Claus. Thanks!

 

[sevt_chevelle]

I load 4 handgun calibers, 9, 40, 45 and 44 mag. I use nothing but Redding dies on a dillon 650.

The Redding die is nice because I can quickly make changes to oal based upon different bullets.

Your .005 difference is due because of the variance of the bullet themselves.

 

[runner3264]

I load 4 handgun calibers, 9, 40, 45 and 44 mag. I use nothing but Redding dies on a dillon 650.

The Redding die is nice because I can quickly make changes to oal based upon different bullets.

Your .005 difference is due because of the variance of the bullet themselves.

Thank you! Someone else that is actually answering the question

 

[jmorris]

I recently noticed that my Dillon seating die was not producing consistent OAL... like not even close. .005" variance or more - yikes! If it is important, I run this on an XL750.
….Am I missing something in setting up this die? Is this my excuse to take the plunge on a Redding or Lyman micrometer die? Are my expectations unrealistic?

You may not be missing anything in the setup, as men we rarely need an excuse to blow money on stuff we don’t really need and we don’t know what your expectations are, just that .005 makes you say “yikes!”.

If accuracy on target isn’t what you like, you might try quality JHP projectiles.

If you just want the calipers to read the most consistent OAL, you might try full wad cutters as they are flat across the face. Pointy bullets are often not exactly the same length, like the SMK’s for example.

Despite being more accurate at 100 yards than a cast and coated 9mm is at 7 yards, it’s not uncommon to find the OAL of individual bullets off .005.



So if you seated them all to the same OAL, the base, distance from lands, etc would vary and that is not what we want.

Instead we measure off a diameter along the ogive of the bullet, not the tip. At this point you are using your calipers as comparators, but is shows the same length from the datum (reference diameter/hole the ogive contacts) to base and that’s more important than OAL.



You can even pop the spring clip off your seater and remove the seater itself and use it on the rounds you have loaded.

This is a rifle seating stem but you can get the idea.



Are your rounds that have .005” difference in OAL have the same difference? When measured with the seating stem?

If no, your problem is solved.

If yes, provide a few more details. What brass are you using? All Dillon dies, seating in #4 crimp in #5? Take them out in #4 and measure them, if they are good there and getting messed up in #5, you crimp is introducing error.

I suppose I should have started with this but you could also segregate 50 rounds or so, half as “perfect” per your expectations the other half “yikes!” grade and go shoot two groups at your preferred distance and see if it’s even worth splitting hairs over the difference, if there is any in actual use.

Happy shooting.

 

[Saluki91]

You may not be missing anything in the setup, as men we rarely need an excuse to blow money on stuff we don’t really need and we don’t know what your expectations are, just that .005 makes you say “yikes!”.

If accuracy on target isn’t what you like, you might try quality JHP projectiles.

If you just want the calipers to read the most consistent OAL, you might try full wad cutters as they are flat across the face. Pointy bullets are often not exactly the same length, like the SMK’s for example.

Despite being more accurate at 100 yards than a cast and coated 9mm is at 7 yards, it’s not uncommon to find the OAL of individual bullets off .005.

View attachment 1043143 View attachment 1043145

So if you seated them all to the same OAL, the base, distance from lands, etc would vary and that is not what we want.

Instead we measure off a diameter along the ogive of the bullet, not the tip. At this point you are using your calipers as comparators, but is shows the same length from the datum (reference diameter/hole the ogive contacts) to base and that’s more important than OAL.

View attachment 1043144

You can even pop the spring clip off your seater and remove the seater itself and use it on the rounds you have loaded.

This is a rifle seating stem but you can get the idea.

View attachment 1043146

Are your rounds that have .005” difference in OAL have the same difference? When measured with the seating stem?

If no, your problem is solved.

If yes, provide a few more details. What brass are you using? All Dillon dies, seating in #4 crimp in #5? Take them out in #4 and measure them, if they are good there and getting messed up in #5, you crimp is introducing error.

I suppose I should have started with this but you could also segregate 50 rounds or so, half as “perfect” per your expectations the other half “yikes!” grade and go shoot two groups at your preferred distance and see if it’s even worth splitting hairs over the difference, if there is any in actual use.

Happy shooting.

Thanks - I really appreciate your input and suggestions. I'll give those a try.

 

[AJC1]

You may not be missing anything in the setup, as men we rarely need an excuse to blow money on stuff we don’t really need and we don’t know what your expectations are, just that .005 makes you say “yikes!”.

If accuracy on target isn’t what you like, you might try quality JHP projectiles.

If you just want the calipers to read the most consistent OAL, you might try full wad cutters as they are flat across the face. Pointy bullets are often not exactly the same length, like the SMK’s for example.

Despite being more accurate at 100 yards than a cast and coated 9mm is at 7 yards, it’s not uncommon to find the OAL of individual bullets off .005.

View attachment 1043143 View attachment 1043145

So if you seated them all to the same OAL, the base, distance from lands, etc would vary and that is not what we want.

Instead we measure off a diameter along the ogive of the bullet, not the tip. At this point you are using your calipers as comparators, but is shows the same length from the datum (reference diameter/hole the ogive contacts) to base and that’s more important than OAL.

View attachment 1043144

You can even pop the spring clip off your seater and remove the seater itself and use it on the rounds you have loaded.

This is a rifle seating stem but you can get the idea.

View attachment 1043146

Are your rounds that have .005” difference in OAL have the same difference? When measured with the seating stem?

If no, your problem is solved.

If yes, provide a few more details. What brass are you using? All Dillon dies, seating in #4 crimp in #5? Take them out in #4 and measure them, if they are good there and getting messed up in #5, you crimp is introducing error.

I suppose I should have started with this but you could also segregate 50 rounds or so, half as “perfect” per your expectations the other half “yikes!” grade and go shoot two groups at your preferred distance and see if it’s even worth splitting hairs over the difference, if there is any in actual use.

Happy shooting.

Using the seating stem was a cool idea I hadn't seen yet.

It's all fun and games until the compressed loads leave rings on your bullets, then nothing is consistant.

A die that has a seating stem that perfectly fits your bullets will give you the most consistency. When I contacted dillion they said they dont do that. Select a die that has that servise available for now and future bullets.

 

[jmorris]

Using the seating stem was a cool idea I hadn't seen yet…

A die that has a seating stem that perfectly fits your bullets will give you the most consistency. When I contacted dillion they said they dont do that. Select a die that has that servise...

Just trying to eliminate variables at this point. Still have to know the results from the OP for the next step or to even know if he has a problem or it’s “built in” the components.

Anyone can make a custom seating stem.

https://www.uniquetek.com/store/696296/uploaded/Bullet_Seating_Stem_Customization.pdf

 

[lordpaxman]

Thanks - I really appreciate your input and suggestions. I'll give those a try.

I’d be interested to hear what you find out. I have Dillon dies on my RL1100, and get +/- .002 or .003 for production runs on mixed HS brass with 147 RN Blue bullets. This measurement was a sampling only, I didn’t measure every round so I really don’t know what the total spread actually is, but, lots were at the set point of 1.120”.
Also, I use the progressive as a “total” progressive, that is I wet tumble with primers in and then the progressive sizes/deprimes, swages, primes, powder, seat, crimp. While a more expensive seating die might help, I think the process and raw materials are just as important.
I would gladly purchases a Redding competition die (if I could get one) if I thought it’d give me +/.0005” on mixed brass and coated bullets AND improved my competition scores but that balloon pops really quickly and I go back to what I currently have.
If I was going to do anything, it’d be to use the progressive in “partial” mode, where you size/deprime and possibly prime in one step, then run them all through again for powder, bullet, crimp. Even then if it’s mixed headstamp I think with the mixed neck tension will still lead to variances on COL. In the end, you’ll have to evaluate if it really even makes a difference in your intended use.

A die that has a seating stem that perfectly fits your bullets will give you the most consistency.

I’ve been tempted to machine a seating stem like that, but, I don’t think coated lead bullets are all that consistent so even those seaters that contact the supposed ogive, are going to vary.

 

[AJC1]

I’d be interested to hear what you find out. I have Dillon dies on my RL1100, and get +/- .002 or .003 for production runs on mixed HS brass with 147 RN Blue bullets. This measurement was a sampling only, I didn’t measure every round so I really don’t know what the total spread actually is, but, lots were at the set point of 1.120”.
Also, I use the progressive as a “total” progressive, that is I wet tumble with primers in and then the progressive sizes/deprimes, swages, primes, powder, seat, crimp. While a more expensive seating die might help, I think the process and raw materials are just as important.
I would gladly purchases a Redding competition die (if I could get one) if I thought it’d give me +/.0005” on mixed brass and coated bullets AND improved my competition scores but that balloon pops really quickly and I go back to what I currently have.
If I was going to do anything, it’d be to use the progressive in “partial” mode, where you size/deprime and possibly prime in one step, then run them all through again for powder, bullet, crimp. Even then if it’s mixed headstamp I think with the mixed neck tension will still lead to variances on COL. In the end, you’ll have to evaluate if it really even makes a difference in your intended use.

I’ve been tempted to machine a seating stem like that, but, I don’t think coated lead bullets are all that consistent so even those seaters that contact the supposed ogive, are going to vary.

I agree, were dealing with stacked tolerances and the more factors included the worse the final outcome.

 

[rfwobbly]

The root issue is that your stock Seating Stem (or anvil) doesn't fit the bullet's ogive very good. That's why your Flat Point bullets have the least variation (you're using a flat anvil to press in a flat nosed bullet, so what can go wrong ? ). While Dillon's Round Nose anvil may require some minor modification. And further still, Dillon does not have a good answer for conical ogive bullets, like the Hornady XTP or the Precision Delta Hollow Point. And, IMHO, their SWC anvil is too generous in it's dimensions to be useful.

A good Seating Stem needs to 1, push on the correct place with generous contact surface, and 2. center the bullet precisely during the seating process. These are NOT the same thing.

What I suggest you do is go buy a metal lathe and start making your own anvils. If your anvil will hold the bullet horizontally, then that's a pretty good indication of good ogive contact.








Another hint is that since the body of the Dillon die has to be adjusted up and down for OAL setting, you might try placing an o-ring under the die Lock Nut. In this way the nut doesn't need to be loosened with a wrench every time, and small adjustments for OAL are much easier to make, even during production.



Hope this helps.