Dillon vs Lee vs RCBS vs Hornady

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So, you're saying that you really like the press, and any problems you had were due to inexperience?
I ask this because I've been loading for 2 pistol and 3 rifle calibers for some time now, all on a single stage press (2 of them, actually). I think I have a fair idea of what to watch for safety-wise, and I am mechanically inclined. So if careful setup is all that's needed for the Load-master, I could live with that.
On the other hand, I already have my dies in LNL collars, and powder changes on the Hornady sound simple.
Guess I'll have to find a sample of each and try them!
 
Speaking for myself I can blame ME for about, oh, 100% of my problems.

From not setting dies correctly, to not cleaning the press, to not buying the nice to have items to make life easy... that was all me. Can't blame the press if the sizing die is set to far down, or if I forget to clean the primer punch seating surface, or lube the shell plate. The press just does what I make it do... usually with the end result being something broke (damn primer slider).

The Loadmaster is a FANTASTIC value. Price out a COMPLETE calibure toolhead (powder throw included) for a Lee and just about any other press... thats $50 per cartridge savings for you.

Same quality ammo as all the other colored presses.... just a bit cheaper to get there.
 
Homefront, I've actually had a Lee technician comment to me on the phone that their progressive presses seem to work best for folks who are mechanically inclined. I count myself in that category, and don't really mind the occasional fiddling that I have to do. (I DO mean occasional, by the way - most of the time my Loadmaster just runs. For example, I have had to adjust the primer seating depth mechanism recently, but it ran without my touching it for more than 10 years.)

A further thought on case feeders: the one on the Loadmaster is essentiallly gravity powered, with one, hand-indexed moving part. It loads VERY reliably with all cartridges I've used in it that are LARGER than 9mm Luger. The 9mm cases (I load all 3 of the shorter ones - 9x17, 9x18 & 9x19) are JUST short enough that they can tip into the feeding tubes base up. But anything longer or heavier in the base (like 45 ACP) will virtually NEVER go in upside down. I find it a major convenience to handle only bullets during the normal reloading cycle - right hand stays on the press handle. You just index the case feeder tube base a quarter turn when a tube is empty.
 
Well, LNL AP guys, you may have a convert. :confused:

I'm seriously considering selling the 550 setup and buying a basic hornady AP. The issue that is driving the decision is powder checking for some rifle loading. I can't easily see inside each rifle case to verify powder; pistol is easy to verify. I'm not willing to compromise on the die setup for rifle loading from sized rifle cases and the dies take up all 4 stations on the 550. Loading everything else was fine on the 550; really, but seperate seating and crimping of rifle ammo and doing a powdercheck just doesn't fit with a decap die up first.

1) How hard/fast is it to feed cases by hand and place bullets to be seated?
2) How much die clearance does the ejector spring need? I'm ready to grind the bottom of the crimp dies a little for clearance, but I'm not replacing all of them.
3) Is there a source for the case feeder for less than $240-$250; list price last year was $207. WTH happened to pricing on them?
4) How reliable is the priming system on the newer APs? It looks similar to the 550 except at the rear of the press.
5) Will older (shorter) Lee pistol dies fit into the bushings and have room for a lock ring?

EDIT: 6) Is having a basic powder die for each caliber enough to not require adjustments each time?

thanks
 
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1911user said:
1) How hard/fast is it to feed cases by hand and place bullets to be seated?
2) How much die clearance does the ejector spring need? I'm ready to grind the bottom of the crimp dies a little for clearance, but I'm not replacing all of them.
3) Is there a source for the case feeder for less than $240-$250; list price last year was $207. WTH happened to pricing on them?
4) How reliable is the priming system on the newer APs? It looks similar to the 550 except at the rear of the press.
5) Will older (shorter) Lee pistol dies fit into the bushings and have room for a lock ring?

I can at least help with a couple of your questions.

Feeding case by hand isn't too hard. I have the feeder but I feed by hand from time to time and it's still pretty fast. Placing bullets is also pretty easy. The O-frame of the press is at an angle so it gives you a little more room to get your hand in there.

The ejector spring is about 0.10" in diameter, and sits on top of the shell plate. If you currently have about that much clearance between your crimp die and the shell holder, it should be ok. The ejector spring can easily be removed (or just flipped out of the way) and you can flip loaded rounds out with a finger if you need to.

The only problem I have had with the priming system is that sometimes debris can get into the primer slide area and bind up the slide. Zapping it with a shot from a compressed air duster usually clears it right out.

I don't have any Lee dies to try, but I can tell you this: With a sizing die adjusted so it rests on the shell plate at full extension, the LnL bushing goes about 1.60" up the body of the die. If you can screw that much of the die into a bushing and still have room for a lock ring on top, you're good to go.

Car Knocker said:
Think outside the box. Put the lock ring on the underside.
You can't put a lock ring on the bottom of a LnL bushing. If you did, it wouldn't go into the press. Besides, the problem is usually that the die threads don't go high up enough on the die body, not that the die itself needs to sit lower in the press.
 
1911user,

Here's the answers to your questions:

"I'm seriously considering selling the 550 setup and buying a basic hornady AP."

That's what I did and I've been happy with the choice.

"The issue that is driving the decision is powder checking for some rifle loading. I can't easily see inside each rifle case to verify powder; pistol is easy to verify. I'm not willing to compromise on the die setup for rifle loading from sized rifle cases and the dies take up all 4 stations on the 550. Loading everything else was fine on the 550; really, but seperate seating and crimping of rifle ammo and doing a powdercheck just doesn't fit with a decap die up first."

The good news is with the Hornady, it's a bit taller, so you can see a little bit better, but you're better off to order either an RCBS lockout die or a Dillon powder check setup. Yes, you can adapt the Dillon to the Hornady. I haven't done it, but I can see where with a little ingenuity you could.

"1) How hard/fast is it to feed cases by hand and place bullets to be seated?"

They both feed from the left, while your right hand remains on the handle. You can enhance this by building a "strong mount" and a shelf to hold Akro Bins for both your brass and bullets. If you have trouble visualizing it, send me a pm with your email address and I'll be glad to send you a picture of my setup. My setup increased my production by over a hundred rounds per hour easily, because everything was then "right there."

"2) How much die clearance does the ejector spring need? I'm ready to grind the bottom of the crimp dies a little for clearance, but I'm not replacing all of them."

This is ONLY an issue with LEE factory crimp dies, as far as I know. You can use your Dillon dies in the Hornady. Solutions for the Lee: 1. Grind of a little bit of the die on one side. 2. Bend the spring to clear 3. Do a little of both 4. If Hornady still has the old Projector ejector setup available for sale, it may be worth it to retrofit it, but I don't know that they do. I'm going to check at some point though.

"3) Is there a source for the case feeder for less than $240-$250; list price last year was $207. WTH happened to pricing on them?"

"Danged if I know. I was shocked at the rise in cost. Those electric motors must be expensive or something. I've actually been thinking of buying the "small parts" and adapting a Lee collator and tubes onto it.

"4) How reliable is the priming system on the newer APs? It looks similar to the 550 except at the rear of the press."

It's boringly reliable. You have to adjust the base and the "cambar" (If it isn't adjusted out of the box. BTW, use a tny little blue loctite on the nuts and the screw, let it dry, so things will remain after adjustment.) and once adjusted once, you're done. After that, it's boringly reliable and is very similar to Dillon's in design, just feeds to a different location. Get the

"5) Will older (shorter) Lee pistol dies fit into the bushings and have room for a lock ring?"

I don't know, but here's a solution for short lee dies: 1. Drill and tap the LnL bushings for a small set screw on a couple of sides. (I used three, but this may be overkill.) Put your die in and adjust it in the press. Use a set of slip joint pliers to unlock the bushing and remove it. Put a piece of leadshop in the hold, insert the setscrews and tighten them. You're done and you'll never have to do it again. I did this with my 9MM set for all the dies that were too short.

"6) Is having a basic powder die for each caliber enough to not require adjustments each time?"

I honestly don't know the answer to this, as I always check and adjust my powder measure at each setup. I do this because this is critical to accuracy and to safety. The Hornady LnL powder measure is extremely easy to adjust and you can note the setting you measure with a with a caliper in you reloading notebook to get quick and repeatable powder adjustments for each load.

I doubt you'd need additional powder dies, just a new expander for each caliber. But you could use them, if you wanted to avoid any die adjustment and powder adjustment at all. I'm not sure the expander version of the CAPD is out yet though. I recommend you hold out until it is available. The hold up is the spring.

Or, keep your Dillon measure for pistol and use the Hornady measure for rifle. This would be a nice thing. You can get the two springs to get rid of the "bar" and go back to the old style case activation from Brian Enos for four bucks. The Hornady is not reversible, so you don't have to worry about double charging the case from reversing the shellplate.

Hope all this makes sense,

Dave
 
if all you want is a couple hundred rounds, take a look at the semi progressive Lee Turret Model. at one time there was lots of chatter on here about this inexpensive press. i used one for years until i got my LnL

and, i keep 200 rounds of my most shot calibers ahead so i can grab and go without having to load some. only prob i had with mine was the auto advance. i would adjust it and not too many rounds later it was a prob again, however it partially rotated and i advanced it by hand the rest of the way. easier done than said it turns out good rounds too, just pistol only, which you seem to want.

this will give you an introduction to progressive tools and might be all you ever need for your small requirements and, did i say inexpensive. everything you will need for little more than a single benjamin.

it is quick and easy to change calibers with another turret. get another powder measure and you can leave the two set up for their desired charge of powder you use for that round. oh, polish the "lands and grooves" of the turrets with four ought steel wool (fur) and lightly lube.

read up on it's particulars and if you think that is a deal, may i reccommend F and M reloading for the purchase of Lee products. least expensive of them all

if, later, you want a full progressive get the LnL for price consideration. if you want the Cadillac of loaders, get the Dillon. either will serve you well, but, the Dillon comes with braggin' rights.

see what happens when you ask a question on THR. present party excluded, these guys know their stuff and you wont go wrong following their advice.

good shooting
 
I ordered the press this afternoon with some shellplates and extra bushings. I have to sell all of the dillon 550 setup to pay for the new one (and get ebay pricing for it). I may list things here for a day or 2 then move what's left to ebay Sunday night.

I'm planning to use my older hornady powder measure since it came with micrometer dials on the rifle and pistol inserts. I think the powder activation will work with it. It looked OK from the manual.

So the RCBS powdercheck will not work with 30/06 cases. Checking powder in rifle loads is a major reason for the change. I'll have to find a different powder check die. It's not worth $65 (to me) for a dillon electronic powder check system. I don't need precise powder level checks, just something visual to catch gross over or under charges on 223 and 30-06; pistol would be a plus.

thanks for all of the good info. everyone.
 
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The RCBS lockout die only works with straight wall cases. If all you want is a visual indicator, their plain powder check die should work with rifle cases. I know for sure that the Hornady powder check die works with .308 Win and .260 Rem rifle cases.
 
Thanks to all for the great info.
Sailor, that actually was on my mind! I was thinking that the Lee Classic Turret would be a good logical next step up from single stage, but the thought of three pulls per round has held me back.
 
1911user,

To make the lockout die work with bottleneck cartridges, all you have to do is get a plastic/nylon "foot" that goes inside the cartridge of an appropriate size. The ones that come with it are for larger openings than the .30 caliber. I don't think it would be hard to get one that works with 30.06, but I haven't gotten around to either making one or getting one from RCBS.

homefront,

The Lee Classic turrent, with the safety prime and pro auto disk is an excellent setup for the money I think. My pistol volume is reaching a level I may end up buying one to reload rifle. In which case I'll move the auto disk to my Hornady and use my Hornady powder measure on the Lee Classic Turret.

I think you could do a lot worse than getting the Lee Turret.

Regards,

Dave
 
Dave, I went with the RCBS powder check (not lockout) die for $23. It looked like the easiest to do quick powder level comparisons and readjust for different calibers. The hornady powder cop die looked like a little more work to setup and it was $2 more.
 
1911user,

sounds like a reasonable solution. If you are or have a buddy who is an electronics tech or engineer, he can rig you a buzzer for that die outta parts from radio shack for next to nothing cost wise.

Dave
 
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