Dirt bag ruined this morning's hunt.....!

[saddlebum]

nin Oklahoma the state begs us to kill hogs, let them lay if you don't want them no problem.

If Florida has a law against it the they need some smarter biologist.they are destructive vermin that should be killed at every oppurtunity.
in the words of josey wales "buzzards gotta eat same as the worms"

 

[jimmyraythomason]

If prosecuted this would be a very hard case to prove. The only thing connecting shooter(alledged) to dead pig is a third party pointing and saying "he did". Tag numbers notwithstanding. This would require testimomy of the accuser and forensic evidence to convict,in the absence of a confession.

 

[kyle1974]

Florida has some of the most "treehugger" viewpoints on taking of any game.... they have the lowest bag limits for saltwater fishing of any state along the gulf, and apparently, they don't know what hogs enjoy doing...

screwing and destroying.

I Know a lot of people eat wild hogs, but after seeing what they will eat... no thanks. everything from rotting deer, raccoons, dead birds....

I don't know anyone that would eat a coyote, and a hog has a more diverse meal plan than they do.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

It was not my "interpertation".

That is interesting because in the OP you had folks reread, there was no admission by any shooter and you said,

One guy points to the other and says, "He did". A few more words were exchanged as I dialed the FWC and gave the license plates of both vehicles. The guy who had done the shooting looked ghost white at being caught.

So you have a supposed witness accusing another. You think that because the guy turned white that he was the shooter. That is an interpretation.

And know this too. When I asked "Who shot the hog." There was no return question as to where I found it, no statement of them having looked for it, no request for me to show them where it was so they could retrieve it.

So the two hunters, like you, stumbled upon a shot hog at their hunt spot and opt not to hunt there. Then some guy comes out of the woods in a foul mood and demanding to know who shot the hog. One guy thinks he is funny and points to his buddy. His buddy is shocked by the turn of events and turns white.

Finally said he shot it last night but that it was "probably" still good.

NOW the story changes? You have posted this on four boards now and this is the first statement like this.

Folks they had abandoned that hog regardless of what benifit of a doubt you may want to allow.

You keep saying the hog was abandoned, but the guys had not left. If some guy comes out of the woods armed and yelling at me, I am not likely to stay around.

And you may not like the idea that someone might rat you out when you do a misdeed but it's a sure thing you'd rather hunt around folks that you know will toe the line.

As for turning a blind eye to things.........that sort of thinking only emboldens those who break the rule and disreguard the reat of us. You may not have the courage for it but some of us do.

Turning in hunters who break the law is just fine and dandy. Of course, you didn't witness them breaking the law and no law enforcement witnessed the event, but that is another matter. As for having the courage to confront them verbally as you did, you got lucky. Had they been hardcore, you might have ended up with the hog. The smart choice for a person wanting to sleuth out the event would have been to observe and report, which is what the FWC suggests. http://myfwc.com/ABOUT/LE/About_LE_Alert.htm

If you suspect a wildlife or boating law violation, report it to the FWC's Wildlife Alert Reward Program: 888-404-FWCC (3922). If your information results in an arrest, you may be eligible for a reward of up to $1,000.

It is important to report violations as soon as possible and provide as much detail as you can about the physical descriptions of violators, vehicles, license tag numbers, etc.

-----------------------------

I Know a lot of people eat wild hogs, but after seeing what they will eat... no thanks. everything from rotting deer, raccoons, dead birds....

I don't know anyone that would eat a coyote, and a hog has a more diverse meal plan than they do.

Since you mentioned saltwater fishing, have you seen what it is that lobster, shrimp, crab, halibut, catfish, and flounder eat? They are all good eating and they are all scavengers and bottom feeders. They eat all the garbage that makes it to the sea floor.

 

[jimmyraythomason]

Without trying to be funny I equate this to taking tag numbers and turning in drivers who drive in the rain without their headlamps on,which is illegal here.

 

[jaholder1971]

Hogs may be as bad as vermin, but apparently they're illegal to leave to rot in FLA.

The shooter obviously had no intention of picking it up, else he'd have said so and his buddy wouldn't have run off.

And yes, Krochus, every right we have comes with a set of responsibilities attached to them. Apparently it's typical of the closet anarchist, I mean Libertarian thought to forget and ignore this.

 

[bswiv]

"I'll try and keep this short.............."

Second line of what I wrote. Did you catch that? I thought I gave enough of a recounting to pass along the basic fact that from the first question, before I knew it was these guys and not someone else who had left the area, the admission was made.

Reapeat after me. They admitted it.............. They got mad because someone called them on it.

The story that morphed was what they were saying as I called FWC.

Focus on the SELECTIVITY of obeying the law.

In retro spect I wish I was a trained interigator but all I knew to do was ask a direct question. The direct answer was that they did it.

As for "their spot"........I went in on a different road so did not know they were there when I started out.

And this is a WMA......you do not own a "spot" in a WMA. Certianly we all give cushon and also take note of where someone's truck always is and if he's there we stay out but this is public land and it's not possible for anyone to have knowledge of where everyone else is.

And for those of you who object because it was just a hog go ahead and answer the question I posed about the deer.

This area has a 3 on a side rule. If he had decided that that rule was not to his liking, as he has done with the hog rule, and decided that 2 on a side or even one on a side was how he was going to hunt. Would that be a problem?

I mean he would be behaving in the same way, chosing the rules he obeys?

You'd decry that wouldn't you?

Fact is that you hate the fact he was caught because it was a hog plain and simple. Sad that you don't get the big picture of LEGAL.

 

[DammitBoy]

How big was this hog and was it a male?

 

[R.W.Dale]

I still haven't seen the Florida regulation that says a HOG on a wma must be retrieved.

So far I've only seen a regulation that says they may be left to lie on non WMA's and no specifics for on wma hogs


And the last time I checked this thread is about hog carcasses not hypothetical deer point rule violations

 

[hossfly]

I mean he would be behaving in the same way, chosing the rules he obeys?

That's an all too common practice. You'll often find folks doing it justifying by taking something like this and equating it to the second amendment and the founding fathers. They'll make you laugh if you watch them.

WMA's have the same problem many public goods have. They're subject to a lot of abuse and overconsumption. The fact of the matter is you won't walk on many private tracts in which the owner will leave a dead hog or any other form of blatant litter.

We don't hold wild hogs in the highest regard here either but most of us certainly wouldn't do that. Unfortunately fewer and fewer of us are teaching our kids if you don't eat it, don't kill it and it's showing big time now.

 

[bswiv]

Below is the relavent section. See #7.

The link to the whole thing is: http://myfwc.com/docs/Brochures/09-10_TwelveMileSwamp.pdf

And I keep trying to get the point across that I do realize that it was just a hog. What you are missing, and the deer point analogy was a attempt to get that across, is that he has no right to SELECTIVELY obey the regulations.

Whether or not you find it acceptable the fact that many in Fl find wild hogs a welcome bonus as a second big game animal bears not in the least on the question of his actions being illegal......and objectionable to many other hunters using the WMA.

Do you understand that.....the principle in it?

You have just got to get past the HOG part of the problem here....
===============================================
GENERAL AREA REGULATIONS:
All general laws and regulations relating to wild animal life or
freshwater aquatic life shall apply unless specifically exempted for
this area. Hunting or the taking of wildlife or fish on this area shall
be allowed only during the open seasons and in accordance with the
following regulations.
1. Any person hunting deer or accompanying another person
hunting deer shall wear at least 500 square inches of daylight
fluorescent-orange material as an outer garment, above the
waistline. This is not required during an archery-only season.
2. Taking of spotted fawn, swimming deer or roosted turkey is
prohibited. Species legal to take are listed under each season.
3. It is illegal to hunt over bait or place any bait or other food for
wildlife on this area.
4. Driving a metal object into any tree, or hunting from a tree into
which a metal object has been driven, is prohibited.
5. No person shall cut, damage or remove any natural, man-made
or cultural resource without written authorization of the
landowner or primary land manager.
6. Taking or attempting to take any game with the aid of live
decoys, recorded game calls or sounds, set guns, artificial light,
net, trap, snare, drug or poison is prohibited.
7. The wanton and willful waste of wildlife is prohibited.

 

[bswiv]

And this just occured to me, as we seem to have a hunting culture impass here.

The following links are to the Florida Sportsman Magazine Hunting Forum. Well used in the state.

Note that these are not searched out but rather the last 2 threads on the forum. Posts from TODAY.....and not mine.

Lots of hunters here don't have the same view of hogs as you.

And as to their edability........claming them as unfit is just ignorant.
And the ones that have been hammering corn out of feeders and taking advantage of crops are downright special.
Yes they might in that instance be pests which shooting and leaving( friend did that to a couple on his lease last week), depending on the regulations, may be the correct action but those would be some fine eating.

http://forums.floridasportsman.com/forum/hunting/hog-hunting-relatively-near-orlando

http://forums.floridasportsman.com/forum/hunting/public-land-hogs-what-am-i-doing-wrong

 

[R.W.Dale]

7. The wanton and willful waste of wildlife is prohibited.

And yet still no confirmation that hogs become "wildlife" on WMA's

however I did find this

The Southwest Florida Water Management District (District) considers feral hogs an invasive exotic species.

http://www.swfwmd.state.fl.us/recreation/hoghunt/

I do know one thing Florida's game and fish webpage is about useless. Hell you'd think Florida would beat backwards ass Arkansas in this respect but your page looks like it was left over from 1997 and we have an I-phone app

Wild hogs
■ Fort Drum WMA: Three hunts. No size
or bag limits. Each three-day hunt: $50;
20 hunters on 20,858 acres. Camping
permitted.
■ Green Swamp WMA West Unit: Two
archery and three general gun four-day
hunts for hogs and deer (see Deer above),
and two three-day hunts for hogs only. No
size or bag limits on hogs. Dogs are
allowed on one of two hog-only hunts.
Each three-day hog hunt: $75; 200
hunters for the still hunt and 100 hunters
for the dog hunt on 34,335 acres. Camping
permitted. One hog-dog permit allows
one hunter, one gun, one assistant and
up to three dogs.
■ Lake Panasoffkee WMA: Eight fourday
archery hunts for hogs and deer (see
Deer above). No size or bag limits on hogs.
Each four-day hunt: $100; 20 hunters on
8,676 acres. Camping permitted.

do you know what no size no bag limit means? KILL EM ALL! that's what it means.

 

[jmr40]

In most places hogs are not considered wildlife. Technically this may have been a violation, but Wildlife officers have bigger problems to worry about with limited budgets to work with. Somehow I can only visualize Gomer Pyle chasing Barney Fife yelling "citizens arrest, citizens arrest" after Barney made the illegal "U" turn.

If you didn't want your mornings hunt ruined you should have just kept hunting.

 

[saddlebum]

and there in lies the rub, no state that i know of consider hogs to be wildlife

 

[dogrunner]

I still say that all you hotshots from Texas, Oklahoma, and Arkansas may well be right on target in YOUR HOME STATE. But not the first one of you knows precisely what Florida's statutes read...........Leave it lay where it fell? Well, there just happens to be a Florida criminal statute MANDATING that an animal must be buried!.......Didja know that Ark?...............and like I said, those pigs in WMA's that're managed as game animals enjoy the same protection and rule base that native game does.

Anywhichaway you look at it, those pigs are regarded as game by FWC on THAT WMA.............doing as that so called hunter did is plain wasteful and doggone bad manners to boot.

And yeah, Tex/Ark/Ok...........suppose I began to say that you ought not pack a semi rifle with more than five in the mag as we must, suppose I suggest that you oughta run dogs on deer like I do, suppose I suggest that your laws on CCW are really screwed up and you oughta not have to have training sessions as a couple of you are mandated to......c'mon.....the OP is right............for his place he is right and YOU fella's are WRONG!

I also ment to state that anyone that downs pig meat, ought never even CONSIDER eatin' a chicken..............ever watch 'em sort thru the brown & white stuff!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You DO know what that white stuff is, right?

 

[R.W.Dale]

And yet still no statute has been produced stating that hogs are wildlife on Florida wma's

but I HAVE shown thr regulation that says you can kill every hog you see



Oh and for the record I use a 20rd p mag and a 10rd c-products to hunt with

 

[jimmyraythomason]

Apparently the shooter wasn't a complete dirt bag as he didn't feed the OP his cell phone as would likely have happened here.

 

[R.W.Dale]

Apparently the shooter wasn't a complete dirt bag as he didn't feed the OP his cell phone as would likely have happened here.

LOL I have a mental image of some old country boy staring at the OP during his entire self righteous tirade mouth agape in a disbelieving slack jawed expression as if the OP had a toaster growing outta his head

 

[coyotehitman]

bswiv, you have no authority to enforce any laws, correct? If not, IMO YOU were out of line confronting anyone who did not directly impede your ability to go about your daily life. YOU chose to allow the dead hog to ruin your day, YOU chose to get into a confrontation with two strangers, and now YOU are choosing to continue an argument with folks whose mind you will not change.

If you wanted to do something useful, you should have jotted down the tag number and report the incident. Confronting armed strangers with an attitude could get your picture on the back of a milk carton in some locales.

 

[AKElroy]

What he did was illegal and unethical under the circumstances.

Are you lacking hogs in Florida? I get this is illegal. What I don't get is the outrage, unless hogs are sparse & prized in the area. My lease in central Texas is overrun & we have orders to shoot at first sight, regardless of whether they are left to rot. personally, I harvest tenderloins without so much as a gut-out, leave the rest for the other hogs. Seems a fitting end when they outnumber whitetail on my property 7 to 1.

If they are in abundance, I would have shot that hog as well; rot or not. Your post mentions that the shooter had a treestand, and that he opened shooting lanes by trimming brush, these facts voiced with some frustration that he was apparently PREPARED to shoot stuff. Why is that innapropriate?

 

[buck460XVR]

Whackin' and stackin' where legal is an ethical thing. If it's legal and you want to do it, others may not agree with you and argue with you, but it's still legal.

Whackin' and stackin where illegal is still illegal, no matter what your ethics are. Telling other folk that it's fine to do because you agree with it ethically.....still makes it illegal.

I believe the OP knows the local game laws better than those thousands of miles away. He has also stated the warden confirmed that wanton waste on that particular WMA is illegal. There are dirtballs all over this world, and unfortunately, most have the same rights to own firearms and hunt that the rest of us do. That doesn't mean that they can use their ethics when they do not conform to the law. Just cause 48 states in the union have legal CWC, still makes me a possible felon here in Wisconsin if I try to carry concealed......don't matter if my ethics say it's okay, or that I don't agree with the Governor.....it's still illegal. Odds are the dirtballs were gonna leave the pig lay. Most here will agree to that. Was it correct for the OP to report it? IMO...yes. Whatever reasons Florida has for their rules don't matter. What matters is rules are rules, laws are laws. This is The High Road and we all promote legal methods of hunting, correct? To claim Florida F&G doesn't know what they're doing and everyone should do as they ethically feel is right, regardless of the law, is not taking the High Road and displays a type of hunter that many here would not care to hunt with. Should the OP have confronted the dirtballs and ruined his day? IMO, no. He shoulda phoned in the abandoned kill from where he found it and continued on his way. That way the law coulda done it's job and he still coulda had a enjoyable hunt.

 

[Leaky Waders]

"pigs in WMA's that're managed as game animals enjoy the same protection and rule base that native game does."

That's nt really true. On game the size of hogs...eg deer, there are bullet limitations and caliber limitations, and bag limits. Hogs are eligible to be killed by any method during a particular season. No bag limits.

So if you're squirrel hunting with a .22 or 12 gauge you can try to bag a hog if you like.

In Florida, you can kill other species that are introduced too. Do we have to skin every rat, or armadillo or bar b que every starling? Or is that wanton waste too?

Personally, I wouldn't shoot some nasty hog unless it was pretty close to my truck. I mean, it isn't fun messing with them and dragging them out by hand. To each their own though.

Public land is shared land. And, I can see the OP's point...in that, if you're not going to 'use the game' then leave it for people who would. I can also see the more pragmatic people thinking that a good pest is a dead pest. Personally, I wouldn't confront armed people in the woods.

Think about it..."Man shot over Hog inicident." It's just not worth it for your family.

 

[zxcvbob]

Dirt bag ruined this morning's hunt.....!

Doesn't sound ruined to me; it sounds like you had a grand time.

 

[bswiv]

Did anyone look at the link to the regulation to that WMA. Says clearly that cutting of vegitation is prohibited. The warden working that area writes tickets for it.

Also is fairly clear on the "wildlife" thing.

Land is state owned so they keep a close eye on it.

Warden was called from where the hog was found. Thought I said that before!

Also said I did not know until I asked the guys if they were involved. Thought I made clear that I am to old a broke down to be beligent. The beligerence started when I called them on it.

Also made clear that I started giving FWC their licnece plates as soon as they came clean.

And did even one of you note the link to the FLORIDA forum and see that many hunters have a different view of hogs than in other places?

And no I was not ENFORCING the laws.....I was doing the right thing and reporting to the FWC.

No ground given on the leaving of the hog was illegal or on the properness of calling it in.

Public land with regulations and a lot of other folks who, as someone else also noted, would of liked to harves that hog. They had no right to waste it and no right to expect when they got caught to have it ignored.

Finally the issue of what the South Florida Water Management District does on their land is useless as this land is managed by and under the direction of the FWC....so thats who's regulations you follow.