Disabled discrimination at a range?

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1 old 0311-1

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Anyone else ever experience discrimination when trying to join a range? I am a disabled Vet here in Indy and TRIED to join a local range in a nearby town.

They did everything but say 'disabled not welcome.' Charge me double the normal rate, won't answer phones, won't return e-mail, keep changing the rules , and best of all when they have a membership drive going.:confused:

I am a Caucasian and have never experienced discrimination before but when it comes, man there ain't mistaken it. You look at things in a new light when it hits you.
 
Gotta admit that's one I've not heard of before. Certainly have watched the conflicts that arise over ADA accessibility in businesses and public establishments, but I can't recall ever hearing of a shooting range or gun shop that had anything but respect for vets, disabled or no.

In fact, I've generally seen more awareness of veterans, the POW cause, and related issues where gun folks gather.

Can you be any more specific? No harm in naming the range, either.
 
check with local eeoc ref ada complaint

Dprice gave you great advice. Check with your EEOC.
I don't know all the details of your conversations with club but it is illegal to discriminate against a person with a disability.
You say they want to charge you double? On what grounds and what justification? Did you tell us the whole story? Its not that I don't believe you, but there seems something amiss somewhere. Most club officers are usually very careful in their dealings with potential members etc. and very careful not to run afoul of either Federal or state laws.
If indeed you stated the incident factually, then you have a good chance at filing a complaint against the club. I doubt they will have the finances or inclination to argue with Uncle Sam!
 
Atlanta C.C. in Atlanta Indiana is the club.

I took a Utah CCW class and because of my condition I couldn't sit for 4 hours without getting up every 20-30 minutes to stretch my back out. I could tell the guy giving the class, Randy, was REAL upset with the interruptions.

He mentioned something about shooting at Atlanta and I asked how to join. He responded "Gee I don't know. I guess keep calling them."[ Turns out he is the safety director there.)

I finally got the membership director, Jeff, on the phone and explained I was the disabled Vet who took Randy's class. Looks like Randy got ahold of him first .

Membership is $100 plus you must shoot at one of their events. I explained that being a disabled vet with a cane I really can't compete competitively. The membership director said " WOW! I don't know what we are going to do about that. We would have to charge you $200 if you want to join." I said yes that's fine. He then told me to get ahold of Randy again so he could do a safety check on me. I explained to him that I took and PASSED the Utah class 2 weeks earlier, THAT THE CLUB RECOGNIZES AS A SAFETY CHECK, that Randy put on, and I am a Honorably Discharged disabled Marine. I was told I STILL had to take it again. I said fine and started calling Randy. For two days his phone was shut off. Then I started leaving messages, again, and again, and again. NOTHING.

After 7-8 days it became obvious he was NOT going to return my call, this while they have a membership drive going. I then send the membership director an e-mail telling him this isn't working and where do we go from here. Three days later and nothing from him either. Did I mention there was a drive going to bring new members into the club?

I then called the Americans With Disabilities Act and ask if they can help. I explain the situation, and that I have e-mails, and phone records to verify everything. He reads the ADA act and turns out they have violated two clauses in the 1963 civil Rights Act.

I then call Jeff back explaining what the ADA people said. Like Moses parting the seas he calls back IN 60 SECONDS and says both he and Randy are available and I now WON'T have to take the safety check BUT I would still have to be approved by the Board. Guess who is on the Board. Randy and Jeff. I told him with the outcome obviously predetermined no sense wasting my time.

Am I being picky or being a victim of Discrimination?
 
I'd like to hear something more specific, too. What is it they're having an issue with?

As a Board Member at my club I couldn't imagine intentionally opening our organization up to that kind of lawsuit.
 
I saw you just posted.


I'd tell you to put your application in and let them have a chance to deny it first.


THEN seek action. Something suggests you'll get accepted without much fanfare after that conversation.
 
I'm glad you called the Americans with Disabilities people and got clarification, that clearly put things in your favor. With that being said, I'm not sure I'd want to give this range my money after all of this, it seems like a pretty shady establishment
 
Forgot to mention. The club president called me trying to smooth things over. He said " I CAN'T FIRE THEM BECAUSE THEY ARE VOLUNTEERS" 4-5 TIMES. I finally cooled down and said I would bury the hatchet. He then told me I STILL had to pass the board vote with Dumb and Dumber representing 40% of the vote. I declined. The papers from the DOJ arrived today and i will fill them out shortly.

If anything is recovered 100% will go to the Wounded Worrier Project.
 
What would you be recovering? You have rescinded your application as far as I can tell. How have you been wronged until you have been denied? I hope you will reconsider and submit your application for approval.
 
You know, don't let the actions of a couple schmucks take an entire non-for-profit club down. Board Members run amock because the members of a club join just because they want to have a place to shoot, not because they want to get involved in a civic club.

If you file a complaint and lodge a suit, you'll not hurt those Board Members. You'll hurt the club and the hundreds (thousands?) of members who joined just to have a place to shoot.

If you really wanted to join a place so you can have somewhere to go shoot, submit your application. Give them a chance to deny you membership first.

Once you're in, make some friends there. Get involved in the club. Then run for one of their positions. Board Members are elected by the membership. That's how I became President of my very large gun club.

Once you're on the Board, then you can be a force for good.


But I'll be completely up front and frank about this. If you really have no interest in joining the club and enjoying the facilities and just want to make trouble for some jerk Board Member by being a jerk yourself, I've got no sympathy for you. Any legal or ADA action you take will harm the unsuspecting members of that non-for-profit shooting club and not those Board Members.
 
BBQJOE said:
I don't think I'd try and be a member of any club that didn't want me.
Click to expand...
you are exactly right who would want to be around guys after you force your way in. it is amazing the guys here pulling every commie lib trick in the book like call EEOC use the ADA what next call the ACLU. all the organizations mentioned here for the guy to contact were set up by the same people that want your guns. man up and look for another place
 
Some of the ADA compliance stuff is ridiculous. IMHO it infringes on private property rights.

However, I see no reason why your membership should be denied of this is public range. Since paying extra would cancel out the competion requirement and you passed the safety course. (I would probably have politely asked you to stand up or sit in the back, so you would be a distraction to other classmates.) If it is a private range then it is up to the membership board/owner to permit new members at their discretion. Again, it falls under private property jurisdiction.

Lastly, I thank you for your service.
 
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Yeah, please do be polite.

Those jerky Board Members might not have been, but it looks like that non-for-profit shooting club is doing a lot of good work for the shooters in their community. Being a Board Member of a non-for-profit shooting club is often a thankless task. No pay. Have to interact tactfully with your membership, some of whom are jerks themselves.

And in this current climate, people come out of the woodwork to join the local clubs. Some people have never owned a gun before, just bought one 6 months ago, and want some place to go shoot. They have questionable safety and gun handling skills. My own club instituted an orientation and safety brief this winter as a result of the "banic". We've never done that in the club's 70 year history.

Anyway. A whole lot of non-for-profit clubs are overwhelmed with applications for membership. We've seen record numbers of applications at mine. Record. Many of them don't employ Range/Safety officers at the property. Never had a need to. So while it may appear you're being discriminated against, don't mistake it for your disability. We're discriminating against people who we can't trust not to be a safety risk to our other members on an unsupervised range at mine. I suspect that might be what you're experiencing.

We've seen a whole lot of people join our club since the gun control efforts that never cared to join before. We're happy to have them become a part of our community now, but in the back of our minds we do wonder why they've been a part of our membership area and only now want to join a club.


I'll make a call to the club, colleague to colleague as it were, and see what's going on if you're serious about joining the place.

By the way, there are many clubs who put conditions on membership like volunteer work parties or involvement at club matches. That's often written right into the club's By-laws. I belong to many clubs besides the one I'm a Board Member on. Some are too far away for me to come out for a weekend work party. Those who have such By-laws have always been accepting of my reasons for not attending those required work parties - "I have my own club to run, meetings to attend, and club business to conduct. And yours is over an hour away from me. I shoot matches there, and joined just to support your club. Would you take a donation in lieu of . . . . ?"

The answer has always been, "Yes, of course.'
 
1-old 0311-1 - Let me start by saying thank you for your service.

I am not a veteran, but am disabled. I do not require a cane or a wheelchair at this stage of my life, but my disability is quite noticeable. I always worry about how I am going to be perceived when I go into a gun shop or a range. Luckily, I have been the victim of little such discrimination up to this point.

Hearing about this kind of disgusting discrimination makes my blood boil. Some here are advising you not to pursue legal action because it will hurt the other members of the club who had no part in or knowledge of what was going on. I think that if there are that many members of the club, there should be little problem creating a new one sans the...two undesirables.

Not pursuing this will allow those bigoted individuals to continue this discrimination, and continue hurting and humiliating prospective members.

If it were me, I'd nail 'em to the wall they built.

Hope you have a great week

L
 
I'll cut to the chase. Your condition required you to engage in an activity which was disruptive at least to the instructor if not the rest of the class and your condition will not allow you to "qualify" for membership.

Does the returning of phone calls or perceived overcharges really matter?

I read the OP three times and feel I got it right but am open to clarification.
 
Although I belong to a private gun club, we have 4 days a year for "Wounded Veterans", they come out and shoot at the big bore range, trap house, or pistol range, free of charge. Our club provides the ammo and firearms, and targets. This is becoming one of the bigger times for members to get involved and help out, in fact the guy that runs this shooting time is disabled himself ! Its truly a sad state of affairs, when a disabled vet doesn't have a place to go shoot, or able to join the shooting club. There are many members in our club that are veterans, I am a disabled veteran myself, Viet Nam era. Thank you for your service Marine, being a swabbie, you'd be welcome at our club ! Oooh Raaah !
 
I don't get what your saying about being disruptive.... That he had to get up ever 20-30 minutes to stretch ? Guess what. I do also. I have civilian work back and shoulder problems after 31 years of work. Why would that make anyone ineligible. As far as qualify he only wants to shoot. Not compete. I can't imagine any club not making room for someone who wants to shoot. <edit> File a law suit and maybe the membership will wake up.
 
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