Disabled discrimination at a range?

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Ken, I agree with you 100% on this. 1old seems to want to punish them for not wanting him in their PRIVATE club, not because he is disabled but because he seems to be carrying an antagonistic attitude. I seriously doubt the club has any reason to deny him membership based on his disability and I'd bet there are many disabled members already there. A private club does mean they can say no if they don't like his attitude, how he smells, how he acts or any number of reasons. He has already refused to answer questions of if he is an NRA member, if he has a valid IN gun permit, etc. He expects the club to recoil in terror because he is crying lawsuit yet he never was denied acceptance since he withdrew his application. There are people in this world who are happy to sue for any reason just because they can. He isn't being discriminated against because of his disability, he is being disciminated against because he is acting like a tool. IMO of course.
 
Ill be devils advocate.

After teaching the class maybe he just doesn't like you. You did say you could tell he was annoyed with you having to get up and interrupt his classes. Sometimes folks rub other folks the wrong way.

It's entirely possible he just doesn't like you for some reason or another and him ignoring you has nothing to do with you being disabled or a vet. It's also possible the guy is a total D-Bag and needs a kick in the pants!

Not trying I be offensive in any way, just throwing a couple ideas out there.

Thanks for your service!
 
1 old
You're really coming across as someone thats pissed off at the world for their misfortune. You seem to think the world or society should bend its rules to suit you...sorry pal but entitlement at a private range doesnt fly with me. They owe you nothing.

Actually this thread smells of a troll from the OP but thats just me.
Maybe you can tell me who made it possible for the private club to exist. Who made it possible for people to go about their lives without worry. It was people like the OP,myself and everyone who has Served, is Serving now and those who choose to serve in the future that make your life possible. The very people who Scariface Their Lives, Their Health, Their Family's just so you don't have too.

Entitled? We have paid with our Blood our Broken Bodies and our Lives. Quite frankly we have earned it.
 
It's also possible the guy is a total D-Bag and needs a kick in the pants!
...Who? The Instructor dude, or the President of the club who's offered accommodations to try and make it work out? Or the club membership who don't even know this is going on but stand to lose their club because one guy who isn't in control of what happens doesn't like the OP?

Entitled? We have paid with our Blood our Broken Bodies and our Lives. Quite frankly we have earned it.
Entitled? Sure! To the thanks of a grateful nation, and to the gratitude of every one of us individually.

Entitled to do whatever, wherever, however, you want regardless of the wishes or rules of others (such as a private club)? Certainly not.

As expressed, a private club doesn't have to admit anyone who doesn't meet their requirements. In this case, those in charge seem to have tried to figure out a way to make it work.

The OP would rather go to big brother to assuage his tender feelings, bruised by someone who doesn't hold direct authority over the situation. He feels someone was rude to him so he's going to burn down the whole club.
 
queen of thunder said:
Quite frankly we have earned it.

I don't know about you, but I VOLUNTEERED to serve my country (US Army, Vietnam era) because I consider it my patriotic duty. If you were around, you'll recall that the military wasn't real popular at the time. When's the last time you saw thousands of people protesting the military in Washington DC with "Baby Killer" signs, burning US flags, and spitting on servicemen coming back from overseas? It was pretty common in those days.

I didn't do it because I thought it would be "earning" me anything, and I resent the fact that you would include me (and many others who feel the same way I do) in your "entitlement" statement.

If you feel that way, say that you think that YOU are entitled to special treatment and YOU have earned it. I'm not part of your "we" that thinks that way.
 
I sort of detect and attitude problem on both sides here. No matter the outcome of the case no one is going to be happy or get along. I sure don't want to belong to anything where I knew that even if I gained membership I would have no friends in the organization. I have some screwed up legs and my balance is not worth a damn so I get along pretty well with a cane and use a 4 wheeled walker for long distances. Pretty much relagated to bench shooting. I use a public range, no membership or fees required. What I find amazing is how many people ask about helping me move shooting gear from the truck to the range, hang targets or help picking up my brass. I politely tell them no thanks and that as long as I am able to do things on my own I'm OK and I really need the exercise. I have never felt any discrimation from anyone. I'm a retired Navy 04 but don't believe anyone owes me anything special because of my service time. I enjoyed it, felt it was the right thing to do and recieved my pay checks for work done. That's it.
 
Queen_of_Thunder said:
Just curious as to your physical health.

So now it's about me and my lack of perspective , is it?

I have moderate to severe Crohn's Disease. And although they won't admit to it, I believe it was triggered by all those drugs, vaccinations and injections the Corps made me take back in 1990-91 before the first Dance in the Desert.

At times the disease has been bad enough I did use a cane for mobility. Thank God for Remicade.

Queen_of_Thunder said:
Maybe you can tell me who made it possible for the private club to exist. Who made it possible for people to go about their lives without worry. It was people like the OP,myself and everyone who has Served, is Serving now and those who choose to serve in the future that make your life possible. The very people who Scariface Their Lives, Their Health, Their Family's just so you don't have too.

Entitled? We have paid with our Blood our Broken Bodies and our Lives. Quite frankly we have earned it.

Yeah, uh, that's a disgusting attitude. I've never come across a fellow veteran who expressed such an entitlement or burden on his fellow citizens for his service.
 
I've followed this thread from the beginning. It seems to be degenerating and losing all connection to The High Road's standards. I really come here to avoid this type of drama and yet like someone who looks at an accident out of curiosity I find myself similarly invested in this thread.
 
Boy, this thread has gone down in the gutter by most everyone, even by the mods, IMO.

I don't know about you, but I VOLUNTEERED to serve my country (US Army, Vietnam era) because I consider it my patriotic duty. If you were around, you'll recall that the military wasn't real popular at the time. When's the last time you saw thousands of people protesting the military in Washington DC with "Baby Killer" signs, burning US flags, and spitting on servicemen coming back from overseas? It was pretty common in those days.

I waited for the Draft, but the fact I was A1 and did not run to Canada or elsewhere I feel I VOLUNTEERED as much as anyone. I also as anyone else took the one step forward and raised my right hand and recited the oath of enlistment just as the rest. I also did the best job I was able to do while in the Service.

I was stationed in DC, and yes I was spit at, cursed at, described as a baby killer, watched the Flag I Served being burned, and more. But being as I was drafted makes my service none the less, and my Pride in my Service any less.

In fact I'm still proudly serving as a member of our American Legions Honor Guard, not only for Holidays but for Veteran Funerals as well.

I agree with aka108 there is an attitude problem here on this thread on both sides.

Mayhap an outside mediator is the best solution to resolve the problem, and further if in fact this is all it would take to destroy the club, it was on thin ice anyway.
 
Entitled? We have paid with our Blood our Broken Bodies and our Lives. Quite frankly we have earned it.

You live in a country that supports its vets and holds them up but frankly you got a paycheck for your service, lifetime benefits and most volunteered to go in. Some, like my dope headed step father went in to Vietnam in order to avoid jail time, the judge gave him a choice. Some go in to earn THOUSANDS of dollars funded by tax payers to goto college on.

My point is that vets are generally honored by most Americans including myself. That doesn't give you free reign, a free pass and mean that everyone should bend over to accommodate your every whim or want without question.

BTW, thanks for your service.
 
Don't know what is happening here, just see 2 polorized sides slinging mud. Without taking sides on this, the comment that private clubs can make decisions on "I don't like you or you don't fit in", is true, but if you want to get your doors chained by the authorities the best way is to give a disabled person a bunch of grief that you wouldn't give the next guy. Sorry Ken [MOD] but although I share your dislike of "going to the Feds"; sometimes organizations need to have their feet held to the fire.

The truth here is hard to figure out. What I do know is that any organization I've ever been involved with, private, public, business, or personal; all have bent over backwards to accomodate and even seek out disabled and applicants that would represent a diversified base.

With this I agree with Ken. Complete your application, do your 2 events [as a worker or participant] supply the necessary personal info [NRA] and see what comes out the other end. Then do the right thing.

Vet 69-71 USArmy -=- Thanks to all for their service. I don't wake up in the morning expecting those who might want to trash our Constitution or use it to pursue their own THING, to send me a thank you note. I do however take a moment now and then to express my right to express my opinion.
 
I'm 100% disabled and use a mobility chair to get around. I have only visited one range and luckily was treated very fairly. I am blessed to have my own private range and don't have to use public ranges. There are some really ignorant people out there but thankfully most are good people. I personally would not patronize a range such as this one but I hope you can find a good place to shoot!
 
If I own a private club or a business of any kind and elect to openly or covertly discriminate against some demographic or even against individuals at my whim, it's my right to do so. It is my right to a lot of things that are stupid.

The range where I shoot most often is up a flight of stairs and is accessible to a chair-bound person. The owner of that range recently bought a range a couple of miles away that's on the ground floor and accessible. Is he discriminating. Was he before he bought the ground floor range?
 
1-old, I had felt anger for how you were treated in the first instance, and hoped you would find a way to get it made right. It seems to me the club honcho tried to offer you one, and you didn't follow through. Claiming now that they've unfairly excluded you, when your "good faith effort" didn't even include filling out the membership application and meeting the board, seems passive- aggressive and dishonest. You served our country honorably, and perhaps you are entitled to a measure of thanks you feel you have not received, but I for one no longer feel you are acting in good faith on this matter.

If you won't give them their fair chance to do right, you can't fairly claim they haven't done right.
 
105 posts later and all I wanted was a place to shoot one of my .22's. :uhoh: Imagine the mud thrown around if I was a .500 shooter?:what::what:

I am finished with this thread and amazed that some of these posts were on a firearms site. It explains how we ended up with our POUS and doesn't look good for the future.
 
I am finished with this thread and amazed that some of these posts were on a firearms site. It explains how we ended up with our POUS and doesn't look good for the future.

Ugh... maybe you were the reason you weren't wanted? Ever thought of that? I know two disabled vets very well. One I would help do anything, anything. The other I will tip my hat to and that is about it. It is all about your attitude, generally.
 
Not pointing this at anyone here, just in general.

At a shooting range or anywhere, I've got no use for a veteran or anyone else who beats people over the head with his or her disability or veteran status, trying to use it to get his or her way.
 
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"Being offended doesn't make you right"

Honestly reporting and rationally discussing relevant facts, all of them and nothing but, would be helpful and respectable. Vague statements, loud denouncments, histrionic tangents, and misdirectional hyperbole are not helpful... or respectable. A man should do better.
 
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Sounds to me like 1old may have some anger management issues. That's not unusual amongst old grunts. Hopefully he will see the light and get some help with it.
 
My Response to an Untruthful Attack

I wanted to take a moment to respond the vicious attack Mr. Kevin Quinlan has brought upon myself and Atlanta Conservation Club, on this forum. Those of you who have stated you would like to hear both sides of the story exhibit great wisdom! Here it is:

To put it simply, Mr. Quinlan is a liar and miscreant that has a sense of entitlement larger than any room he could occupy.

Mr. Quinlan contacted me last month in reference to taking the Utah Course at Indy Gun Safety. He immediately introduced himself as a disabled veteran, which I found odd as it was not pertinent to the discussion. He asked a few questions and then stated he could not sit in one place for long periods of time, and would occasionally have to stand in the back of the room. I told him that would not be a problem. In my 25 years of teaching and being former military myself, I often instruct students in long courses to stand in the back of the room if they get sleepy. So Mr. Quinlan's assertion that he could "tell" I was irritated at him doing so is simply false, as it happens in classes all the time, and I encourage it. Mr. Quinlan is a liar.

As the Director of Safety of Atlanta Conservation Club, and a member of the Board of Directors I am familiar with the new member process as I am an integral part of that process. Mr. Quinlan called me to set up a required safety check. I was out of town on vacation when he called (My mother had been in the hospital with pneumonia) and I was not able to return his call until I returned. But prior to that he had called the membership coordinator and began complaining that we were discriminating against him because he was a disabled veteran. I got a call from the membership director asking me to contact him. But before I could, he called me again and left a message stating: "I am a Marine Corps veteran, so I don't know what training you're going to give me that the Marine Corps hasn't." Clearly, his attitude was all wrong about our safety program, and felt his status entitled him to a pass on what we require of everyone else! (In other words he requested to be treated differently than other new members, while claiming we were treating him differently than other new members!)

I called Mr. Quinlan back and informed him that we require the safety check of all new members, but that his Utah course through Indy Gun Safety met the requirements so it was a moot point anyway. Little did I know he had sent a nasty email to the ACC membership director demanding his money back and stating he did not want to be a member of the club. ACC obliged him and gave him a full refund.

SO LET'S BE CLEAR: Mr. Quinlan withdrew his own application, and stated he did not want to be a member of the club!

Mr. Quinlan then posted a series of lies, (threatening multiple times to sue ACC) in an auction on Armslist, in a desperate attempt to attack ACC, just as he has done here. In the interim, since he had threatened and insulted us, the BOD voted 6-0 to NOT accept his application. I made the motion, and included, that if Mr. Quinlan got his attitude right and did not take additional adverse action against the club, that he be allowed to reapply in 6 months. (Even though he called us "pieces of <deleted> on Armslist! That was my "measure of thanks" to his service: Giving him the chance go get his <deleted> in a stack!)

ACC membership requires that the prospective member view a free online orientation presentation, pass a written online quiz about the presentation, complete a brief safe gun handling check, and participate in two club events by working them or shooting as a participant. Mr. Quinlan's membership was in the bag! All he had left to do was to show up at two events and mingle with the members. But all he wanted to do was cause trouble. We never mentioned his disability. Only HE did... by reminding us over and over that he was a disabled veteran. Mr. Quinlan never tried to explain why he could not do these things OR how it was he wanted us to accommodate him other than just foregoing all of the requirements of membership.

I'd also like to point out that Jeff and I never spoke about Mr. Quinlan's membership other than to try to get him IN! So it is a complete fabrication that "I got to him" (Jeff) first.

The assertion that my company (Indy Gun Safety) would have anything to do with discrimination against the disabled is ridiculous. I have gone out of my way to accommodate all sorts of disabilities in teaching my courses including teaching firearm and CPR & First Aid courses to the deaf, and personally pushing students in wheel chairs around the range at ACC. Do you have any CLUE as to the dedication to professional education and work it takes to teach a class through an interpreter? I have no obligation to do so. I do it because I love seeing ANYONE who wants to defend themselves or exercise their second amendment rights achieve that goal. It warms my heart beyond explanation.

Mr. Quinlan, this will be your only warning from me to cease and desist your conduct of slander against my business and myself. If you dare even respond to this thread I will unleash a fury of legal action against you the likes of which your small mind cannot possibly comprehend. You are a liar Mr. Quinlan. Your conduct is unbecoming of the Marine Corps, and a slap to all the brave men and women who serve or have served, and have sacrificed to protect our way of life.

Randall DeWitt
President/CEO
Safety Specialists Inc.
NRA Instructor/ Training Counselor
Indiana Bail and Fugitive Recovery Agent
 
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I wanted to take a moment to respond the vicious attack Mr. Kevin Quinlan has brought upon myself and Atlanta Conservation Club, on this forum. Those of you who have stated you would like to hear both sides of the story exhibit great wisdom! Here it is:

To put it simply, Mr. Quinlan is a liar and miscreant that has a sense of entitlement larger than any room he could occupy.

Mr. Quinlan contacted me last month in reference to taking the Utah Course at Indy Gun Safety. He immediately introduced himself as a disabled veteran, which I found odd as it was not pertinent to the discussion. He asked a few questions and then stated he could not sit in one place for long periods of time, and would occasionally have to stand in the back of the room. I told him that would not be a problem. In my 25 years of teaching and being former military myself, I often instruct students in long courses to stand in the back of the room if they get sleepy. So Mr. Quinlan's assertion that he could "tell" I was irritated at him doing so is simply false, as it happens in classes all the time, and I encourage it. Mr. Quinlan is a liar.

As the Director of Safety of Atlanta Conservation Club, and a member of the Board of Directors I am familiar with the new member process as I am an integral part of that process. Mr. Quinlan called me to set up a required safety check. I was out of town on vacation when he called (My mother had been in the hospital with pneumonia) and I was not able to return his call until I returned. But prior to that he had called the membership coordinator and began complaining that we were discriminating against him because he was a disabled veteran. I got a call from the membership director asking me to contact him. But before I could, he called me again and left a message stating: "I am a Marine Corps veteran, so I don't know what training you're going to give me that the Marine Corps hasn't." Clearly, his attitude was all wrong about our safety program, and felt his status entitled him to a pass on what we require of everyone else! (In other words he requested to be treated differently than other new members, while claiming we were treating him differently than other new members!)

I called Mr. Quinlan back and informed him that we require the safety check of all new members, but that his Utah course through Indy Gun Safety met the requirements so it was a moot point anyway. Little did I know he had sent a nasty email to the ACC membership director demanding his money back and stating he did not want to be a member of the club. ACC obliged him and gave him a full refund.

SO LET'S BE CLEAR: Mr. Quinlan withdrew his own application, and stated he did not want to be a member of the club!

Mr. Quinlan then posted a series of lies, (threatening multiple times to sue ACC) in an auction on Armslist, in a desperate attempt to attack ACC, just as he has done here. In the interim, since he had threatened and insulted us, the BOD voted 6-0 to NOT accept his application. I made the motion, and included, that if Mr. Quinlan got his attitude right and did not take additional adverse action against the club, that he be allowed to reapply in 6 months. (Even though he called us "pieces of $%&#" on Armslist! That was my "measure of thanks" to his service: Giving him the chance go get his $@#% in a stack!)

ACC membership requires that the prospective member view a free online orientation presentation, pass a written online quiz about the presentation, complete a brief safe gun handling check, and participate in two club events by working them or shooting as a participant. Mr. Quinlan's membership was in the bag! All he had left to do was to show up at two events and mingle with the members. But all he wanted to do was cause trouble. We never mentioned his disability. Only HE did... by reminding us over and over that he was a disable veteran. Mr. Quinlan never tried to explain why he could not do these things OR how it was he wanted us to accommodate him other than just foregoing all of the requirements of membership.

I'd also like to point out that Jeff and I never spoke about Mr. Quinlan's membership other than to try to get him IN! So it is a complete fabrication that "I got to him" (Jeff) first.

The assertion that my company (Indy Gun Safety) would have anything to do with discrimination against the disabled is ridiculous. I have gone out of my way to accommodate all sorts of disabilities in teaching my courses including teaching firearm and CPR & First Aid courses to the deaf, and personally pushing students in wheel chairs around the range at ACC. Do you have any CLUE as to the dedication to professional education and work it takes to teach a class through an interpreter? I have no obligation to do so. I do it because I love seeing ANYONE who wants to defend themselves or exercise their second amendment rights achieve that goal. It warms my heart beyond explanation.

Mr. Quinlan, this will be your only warning from me to cease and desist your conduct of slander against my business and myself. If you dare even respond to this thread I will unleash a fury of legal action against you the likes of which your small mind cannot possibly comprehend. You are a liar Mr. Quinlan. Your conduct is unbecoming of the Marine Corps, and a slap to all the brave men and women who serve or have served, and have sacrificed to protect our way of life.

Randall DeWitt
President/CEO
Safety Specialists Inc.
NRA Instructor/ Training Counselor
Indiana Bail and Fugitive Recovery Agent
I knew it. I knew had a weak character and a huge sense of entitlement. can you imagine all the money that trouble maker has cost the taxpayer since he got out of the service. anyone who goes crying to the commie lib organizations is a weakling and all the guys here that told him to go to all those groups who are manned with people that hate guns should be ashamed of themselves. Randall De Witt you are a good man who wasted your time with this guy
 
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I read through all of this with interest. All of you! See if you can start over. I hope it works out!

Hayes Ellis (LTC R)
25 years total service.
 
I'm glad Mr DeWitt replied. This seemed fishy.

Interestingly, this isn't the first he said/she said said Mr Quinlan has been involved in on the interwebs

http://smith-wessonforum.com/lounge/275266-1-old-0311-kevinqjhps-kevin-quinlan-needs-man-up.html
 
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