disappointment with the quality of CZ Duty.

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I may have incidently bought a lemon. Howvere, it is very disappointing.
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Tell us more about your CZ. What model is it? (That's unclear.) How old is it -- the year it was made is in an oval near the ejection port on older guns. How was it used before you bought it -- or did you buy it new? Is it under warranty?

How are the other five guns performing?

What problems are you having?

What other handguns do you have experience with?
 
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CZs marketing dept are a magnificent bunch of liars.

And people buy it hook, line, and sinker.
 
tagging..
thread might get interesting.

OP...sorry to hear you are having some issues with your P07. I hope the other 5 are running great. Let us know on those if you can.

the two things..rear sight and mag release. as stated, the holster may be interferring with the mag release. rear sight- easy to remedy, but like most. why should you have to fix it in the first place.

Hope you find solutions to your issues.
 
I love the CZ75, I'd love to have one. Very nice pistols.

However I have been less than impressed at the P07's I've inspected. Too bad, because they feel great in my hand and have a great DA trigger.
 
Yes the pistols are P07 Dutys. All of the other 5 are unused still in their boxes.

I didn't mean to open such an aggressive debate, but its good. Lots of information based upon experience is coming out.
 
el Godfather,

Sir, if you could answer the questions posed by Walt in post #26, it would allow us to help you.
 
dom1104 said:
CZs marketing dept are a magnificent bunch of liars.

And people buy it hook, line, and sinker.
meanmrmustard said:
Based on what exactly?
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The term "Liars" is probably a bit too strong, as the original CZ claim is probably factually correct -- but the idea behind the criticism is correct.

The criticism is based on how CZ's marketing hype gets spread around without any critical analysis. The folks in CZ marketing are word wizards. (I was in the business, off and on, for many years, and know good juju when I see it.)

CZ says their guns are the most widely used -- but CZ never offers any evidence to support the claim.

The phrase "widely used" is generally interpreted by most people who repeat the claim to mean "more in use world wide" when, in fact, it more likely means "we've sold a bunch of guns to small units or departments in a lot different places around the world."

If they said, "In use by more departments and units around the world than any other firearm," I'd have no problem with their language.

In the past couple of years CZ has started to sell to more and more police departments and military units in Eastern Europe. But, if you could add them all up -- you probably can't -- it still can't have been that many guns -- because all of the units and countries and governmental units cited are quite small. As noted earlier, Beretta has probably sold more handguns to the US military alone than CZ has sold to all the police departments and military units in the world. (The US committed to buy almost 1/2 million M9s in 2009!)

None of my criticism of the CZ hype should be considered criticism of CZ products, as I like them a lot and am a big fan and supporter. I just wish people would be more skeptical of the marketing claims.
 
dom1104, to answer your globally inaccurate statement, "no, they aren't". :)
I have had many CZ mad and CZ branded items come through this home and have had very little to complain about, and much to praise.
As for jmr40, he had a bad experience and just automatically dislikes the brand and anyone who supports it, so I pay him no mind. :)
Yes, CZ-UB doesn't sign big re-armament contracts ala Beretta, but Beretta has been around as a state sponsored arms maker for roughly 500 years, and CZ-UB in the Czech Republic came into effective being in 1992. :) They did sign a contract in 2010 to rearm the Czech military with 6,687 BREN 805 A1 rifles, and 1,250 BREN A2s, as well as 5,570 SP-01 Phantoms and 572 EVO Skorpion 9mm subguns, over a 3 year period. Not bad for a, relatively speaking, new company, one that previously sold CZ 75 PCR and P-01 pistols to some European PDs, to include their own. I was given to believe one Texas PD adopted the P-01, but I cannot find the link.
CZ-USA is more set up for the civilian shooters and hunters, and Alice, the CEO, is a BIG hunter world wide. Look at the catalog and you can see the emphasis is on defensive or competition pistols and hunting rifles and shotguns. CZ-USA doesn't list a single center fire semi-auto rifle in it's line-up. If the political climate changes to allow more US manufacturing other than Dan Wesson, maybe CZ-UB will ship some machinery over here to begin making US versions of their famous pistols. We'll see. I would LOVE it if they would, so we could get some others, like the CZ-97, perhaps redesigned into a .32 or .380, and maybe the CZ -122 22lr handgun. Of course I want to see a US made BREN 805 version, 922 compliant...but I'm not holding my breath in today's political world.
In the meantime, let me jump down off my ammo box and re state to the OP, I am sorry you are having problems with your P-07 Duty, and I would say again, call 1-800-955-4486 tomorrow morning, and ask the irrepressible Cindy to connect you to the person who can help you most. Then please let us know what happened, if you would.
 
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armoredman: In fact, they do lie.

Here in Indiana, we call lies lies, not "Creative Marketing" or "Word-Smithing".


Here is the official description of the CZ - P01.



------
The P-01/P-06 is based on the CZ 75 design, but with improvements in metallurgy, quality control and design. The components of the P-01 are completely interchangeable with every other P-01 with no individual fitting required. This required some very careful redesign so that the reliability and accuracy were not impaired. The P-01 is the only NATO spec pistol on the market that is available to the public. After 3 years of the most aggressive small arms testing ever by any manufacturer for any pistol, the CZ P-01 won the honor of replacing the CZ 75's previously used by the Czech National Police.
Reliability: The U.S. Army "Mean Rounds Between Failure" (MRBF) requirement is 495 rounds for 9mm pistols. During testing of the CZ P-01, the average number of stoppages was only 7 per 15,000 rounds fired. This is a .05% failure rate or an MRBF of 2142!
------


I have highlighted the BIG TWO for ease of reading.

Thats only one description, for one page, not to even MENTION the famous "CZ 75 B is used by more Governments, Militaries, Police and Security agencies than any other pistol in the world."

So for you to say they dont... seems a little......


odd.

As for me, I will buy AMERICAN pistols, from people who dont lie to me.

I made the mistake in the past, had a whole SLEW of CZ pistols, mostly by the recommendation of this forum, but I was led astray... luckily I found my way back to good old 1911s made in the USA.
 
Dom, I'd like to know how that is a lie, not because I don't believe you just curious. I bought a p07 for my first gun, not because of marketing but cuz I liked it. Mine has the bulge but I haven't found a single report of a problem attributed to it, and mine works fine so I don't worry about it, though I must admit I would rather it not be there.
 
dom, the highlighted text is wrong in what documented way?

If they are liars, then what about Perfection, Glock's claims of a revolutionary pistol that had nothing revolutionary about it, merely incorporating elements from SIG, Hk, Browning, even CZ at just the right time? How about Springfield Armory, claiming "Past, present, future" mentioning George Washington's ordering of the creation of Springfield Armory, all emblazoned on an image of GI's getting ready to storm the beaches? Advertising is all about the twist, and all companies are guilty of it.
 
I agree with you Ash, Springfield is also a bunch of liars, even moreso than CZ.

If you honestly think that Glock pistols didnt start a revolution......

Ok.
 
Dom1104:

The claim that the "CZ 75 B is used by more Governments, Militaries, Police and Security agencies than any other pistol in the world" may be correct.

Saying that CZ-75Bs are used by more governments, militaries, and police and security agencies isn't the same as saying they've put more guns in service. If they've made a lot of sales to small units and departments around the world, their claim may be correct. Fifty here, fifty there, ten here, 20 there, etc., it can all add up to "used by more."

It's hard to know HOW many guns they've sold -- but they didn't claim they sold more GUNS. They claimed they've sold to more organizations. As I said earlier, that's a kind of "magic language" -- in that it seems to say something different than the way most people parse that sentence. You might say the language is tricky, but it isn't necessarily a lie. It does SEEM like one, though... But that's because we read more into the sentence than is appropriate.

As to the claim about NATO-spec firearms for Civilian use: I've not been able to get any clear answers to that one. I know a lot of companies have guns in use by NATO (Beretta, SIG, Glock, for example), but I don't know whether they've put those weapons through the same testing process and standards trials that CZ did to justify their claim.

I will say, however, that you're getting awfully close to being as guilty of making unsubstantiated (and, perhaps, misleading) claims as CZ seems to be. A question: if you can't substantiate your contrary claims, would we be justified in calling you a LIAR, too?
 
Call me what you will, thier claims are outlandish, unbelievable and misleading.
 
dom, nothing of the Glock was revolutionary. Nothing. Everything in the design was copied from somebody else - and when Glock did introduce something revolutionary, it was called GAP...

I'm not trashing Glock, they earned their place. But Perfection? They exaggerate just like everyone else.
 
It's not important how many agencies use CZs. What's important is why someone gets a lemon when they should have had a nice peach or apple :)
 
I have yet to find a company that does not play words to their advantage. They are not lying but you have to carefully read what they are actually saying. How many car companies claim to have the longest lasting cars and trucks? In reality, there can only be one but I can think of at least three that claim this. While I make no secret I prefer CZs and have had better experience with them than any other brand (and I have tried a lot of the big names) there are a lot of good companies out there. Smith, Glock and CZ will have no problem taking care of you if you have a problem. I'm sure HK and Sig would too if necessary. Just call CZ and they will make it right.
 
Call me what you will, thier claims are outlandish, unbelievable and misleading.
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Generally speaking, I agree. But not unbelievable -- as many folks believe them. Misleading? Yup. Outlandish? Maybe.

But, try to track down so opposing facts. It's hard. I was a senior moderator on the CZ forum for a number of years, and we did our best there to gather info about who used what -- what we found was rather limited. They did have guns in a LOT of places, but not necessarily a lot of guns.

Most of CZ claims are probably factually correct but misleading. But part of the problem is we are easily misled. People read one thing and infer another.

CZ has picked up the pace in the past couple of years, and they're starting to be used by larger number of more impressive customers. Eventually, they'll probably live up to their claims.
 
CZ fandom in full effect... The reality is that the CZ Duty is not CZs best effort to date and there is a reason a lot of these guns were dumped at sub $300 pricing...

Honestly I am not surprised that you are dissapointed...
 
Below $300? Where? Good price.
CZ-USA and CZ-UB acknowledged the P-07 had issues they weren't expecting, and spent many a dollar getting them taken care of, and redesigning the ones they brought in after. Not like when the HK USP came out, and failed terribly. HK refused to do any thing, and Tucson Police department couldn't dump the things fast enough. We had six on the rental shelf - a year later when I left there we had one - four were back at the factory for repairs, and one more was boxed up to go. HK makes FINE quality firearms, but that particular pistol at that particular time was junk, in my humble opinion, and by way of comparison.
Personally I don't really like the aggressive checkering on the P-07, as I carry concealed under a t-shirt in AZ summer weather. The P-07 grip is a cheese grater. I vastly prefer my SP-01 Phantom, and carry it all the time. Now when the P-09 Version comes out soon, I will take a look at that one might be a meld between the two.
On the side, since someone said it's all CZ fandom, I shot a Kimber Saturday for the first time, nice 1911. If I liked SA pistols I'd buy one. Limited ammo, though. :)
 
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A ton were sold in late 2011 for $300 OTD. I personally had no interest so I not pick one up. It does nothing that my P01 did not already do for me... LOL

As for Mimber I am not s fan...
 
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