Discovery Channel Reliability....AR vs AK

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nachosgrande

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Just watched the YouTube video of the Discovery Channel's comparison of the 7.62x39 and the 223.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6BpI3xD6h0

They did a test at 200 yards and every shot from the .223 hit in the kill zone and the 7.62 didn't even hit the target. Is this for real? Did they use junk ammo in the AK or is it actually incapable of hitting a fairly large target at 200 yards? My range here is only 50 yards, so I can't test it myself, but that seems ridiculous.
 
Depends on a lot of things. A top end AK with great ammo certainly is capable of hitting an 8" plate at 200 yards every time. A crappy trigger can make 200 yards a problem for a lot of shooters. While the stock sights aren't terrible on the AK there certainly are far better options out there that would make hitting that target at 200 yards a lot easier. Is the AK design capable of better? Yes. Are most of the mass produced bottom of the barrel models using cheap steal cased ammo capable of it with an average shooter behind the trigger? Tough call. It certainly isn't out of the question that a given rifle did that poorly but at the same time it certainly isn't a generalization to cover all variants out there.
 
In a word no. I've never seen an AK that can't hit the kill zone repeatedly, consistently at 200 yards. I would very much PREFER the M-16, but the AK can do it just fine. With Wolf or imported Zimbabwe ammo. Watch the 'expert' shooting the AK later in the clip, on the penetration test. He was jerking the trigger.

And on the penetration tests, it made no mention of what kind of ammo they were using in either rifle. I will assume that since they were using an M-16 A1, they were using 55 gr fmj ammo. They forget to mention that A: the 62 gr steel core ammo we use now is devastatingly effective penetrating hard objects, and B: The Soviets thought the AK round was so great after Vietnam, that they switched to the 5.45 in 1974. They're really only telling half the story.
 
For a ture commy block ak with commy block ammo.( more so if its worn) I would say yes.
 
It BS. I have a lowly, cheap Century Yugo and i can easily REPEATEDLY make center mass hits and ive made multiple head shots at 200 yds...
 
In the end it depends on the shooter in my opinion;)

Under completely controlled conditions with the same brand ammo and guns of equal quality and specs you may be able to determine which round is more accurate. However in the end I believe its the quality of the shooter not the quality of the gun or ammo that determines a rounds effectiveness at any given range.
 
I gotta go w/ crappy weapon and/or ammo. I've never shot my Century underfolder, or NHM91 @200yards, but they both shot well @100. I'm thinking at least center mass @200
 
The AK wasn't hitting the target because of the loose nut behind the trigger. Once you do the math on exactly how big that target is and how many MOA we're talking about it becomes obvious that it isn't the rifle. The technique of the person firing it is a dead giveaway as well. Actually they both stunk. You should be able to do way better at 200 yards with the M-16, too.
 
They did a test at 200 yards and every shot from the .223 hit in the kill zone and the 7.62 didn't even hit the target. Is this for real? Did they use junk ammo in the AK or is it actually incapable of hitting a fairly large target at 200 yards? My range here is only 50 yards, so I can't test it myself, but that seems ridiculous.
No, it's not for real. Watch the clown shooting the AK slapping the trigger when he shoots. He either hasn't a clue, or is purposely trying to make the AK look inaccurate.

Even the lousiest AK should be able to stay on a large pie plate at 200 yards with decent ammunition if the shooter has a clue. Most will do better than that, IMO.
 
Watching that video, it is obvious neither had ever shot a rifle before and were demonstrating techniques for doing so they learned off of video games.

200 yards from a rest with a rifle is child's play for anyone with a clue. I've seen people given a little bit of instruction shoot the M16 much better than their supposed expert on their very first time shooting a rifle.

And while the AK may never be a varmint rifle, it is certainly capable of putting rounds COM out to 200 yards and beyond. I can rattle off 30 from my Rommie from a knee in about 45 seconds and keep 20 in the torso at 200 yards. Not being able to strike consistently from the bench at that range is absolutely the indian, not the arrow--no ifs, ands, or buts about it.

And on the penetration tests, it made no mention of what kind of ammo they were using in either rifle. I will assume that since they were using an M-16 A1, they were using 55 gr fmj ammo. They forget to mention that A: the 62 gr steel core ammo we use now is devastatingly effective penetrating hard objects, and B: The Soviets thought the AK round was so great after Vietnam, that they switched to the 5.45 in 1974. They're really only telling half the story.

But then, so are you.

Any FMJ from a 7.62x39 is going to penetrate most barriers considerably better than even M855. It doesn't even have to be steel core 7.62mm. The tungsten penetrator in the M855 increases penetration for the 5.56, esp through steel, but it is no substitute for momentum. And at twice the mass, the 7.62x39 has more momentum.

As for the Russians, they switched because the high-velocity small caliber intermediate rifle round makes more sense from their military doctrine than it does for ours. Their troops aren't trained as well as ours, and their doctrine has always favored massed fire. And I have yet to have someone explain to me why if the Russians were so impressed with the reports they had of the 5.56 did they intentionally not adopt a cartridge with a similar projectile? The M193 that supposedly won them over is well within their manufacturing capabilities, yet they purposefully designed a projectile that performs much differently. Why?

And lets not forget that the 7.62x39 and 9x39 is still in high demand among better trained units because of advantages in terminal effect and penetration offered by both over the 5.45. The Russians also issue 7.62x54mm SVDs to designated marksmen on a squad level to increase range and lethality, so anything the basic grunt can't hit with barely aimed automatic rifle fire, the DM can take out with the more authoritative 7.62x54.
 
I already know what video you're talking about, and have the following to say about it:

-the AK shooter jerked the trigger.
-the AK has a vastly different, less precise sighting. The guy probably didnt know how the hell to line it up for all we know
-the beginning where they described the AK action as 'flexing' was stupid. That happens to just about any firearm. it's not really flexing. it's kind of like a 'wiggling pencil' effect.
 
I've posted that same video here before. I don't think either one of those guys can shoot. I was impressed with the difference in penetration though.

You know how you've been warned not to believe everything you read on the internet? Don't believe everything you see on You Tube either.
 
It was "interesting", but not very scientific.

They are both quality, battle proven firearms. Anyone who says otherwise is lying or doesn't know much about them...
 
not true at all.

but i would rather have a AK ANY DAY over a AR, because the AK is easier to keep running, will run thousands of rounds before a major strip and clean unlike most AR's. also the AK shoots a much heavier bullet, which i would rather have that cartridge then a .223 even though the .223 has a flatter trijectory i rather have the heavier punch.
 
Again it all depends on what you want. I feel the need to have that extra penetration will never be something I use. I shoot paper and bowling pins with my semiauto rifles, neither of which need a bigger or heavier bullet. Im not going to get into a SHTF situation and as much fun as it is to talk about I am more likely to win the lotto. The AK is fun and something I wouldn't say much negative about, but it just isn't as much my cup of tea. Fun yes, but not as practical for my range use. I have never fired more rounds through my AR in one day than it took to cause a failure so the reliability difference is again something that in reality has zero merit to me. It seems like a lot of the complaints about either rifle are blown well out of proportion and for the average individual it all comes down to how you want to shoot.
 
I've printed tighter groups at 300 yards outside, with the wind blowing, with an FAL, than those two clowns did at 200 from a bench an a controlled environment. While I'm sure the AR would have made a tighter group, the AK is by no means as inaccurate as they portray it to be.
 
I don't think either one of those guys can shoot.

apparently the safest place on that range is in front of the target. :rolleyes:

ADDED: wow, at about 3:33 the guy shooting the AK jerked the trigger like he was trying to crush it. no wonder hes having such a hard time.

oh and the theory about selector lever position is laughable
 
What was the theory? I'm at work now so I can't watch the video, but I just can't wait til I get home to find out.
 
What was the theory?

that the location of automatic mode on the selector lever seeming make the AK worse. ( thats the implication i could see)

since the AK goes Safe, FA, Semi and the AR goes Safe, Semi, FA/Burst. that means the AK is meant to be fired in FA.

if you ask me with the AK's lever location its better to have SA mode all the way down, because when T SHTF and some panicked conscript just SLAMS the safety off he more likely to jump over FA and end up in semi.

id rather have panicked men with SA than panicked men with FA.
 
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