discrimination at the gun store/show?

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Just out of curiosity how old do you look? I've have been "hassled" at the range & at gunshops in my younger days for looking to young to be there alone. I've been given the cold shoulder too when looking at a car cause of what I'm wearing, it's not smart on the sellers side (seen that first hand at Mercedes when the salesmen wouldn't help a young lady in her early 20's, turned out she was an actress from the show Roswell lol).
 
Againstthagrane, first, I'll comment on your original statements. Yes, there is racism in the gun community, but I do not think the gun community to be any more racist than any other group of people. I am a 23 year old white male with a military background, and I have seen as much racism directed towards me as any black, asian, or middle eastern person ever has.

I have felt ignored at gun stores just as you have. I suspect that the employees figured I was there to kick tires and didn't have much money to spend. Am I saying that's what happened to you? No. I don't know what happened in your situation. I wasn't there, but I would not be suprised if the employee was racist. Racism is everywhere.

Second, I do feel as though you had a handful of folks that jumped on you pretty hard in the first couple pages of this thread. No reason for someone to arrogantly demand that this thread be closed. I don't see anything in your first post that claims that gunowners are racist. That said, you came off a little arrogant yourself. Would I have acted the same way, under the same circumstances, probably. You got a raw deal from the start and I hope that you are not judged in this light for the rest of your stay in this forum.

Third, welcome to The High Road. You'll find that many of the members here are polite, considerate and open-minded. Be careful to avoid comments that can taken as personal attacks and you will get along well here.
 
Maybe it's where you're from but I've yet to have a bad experience with gun owners at the range or at shops. In fact, it been quite the opposite. People seem to go out their way to talk to me and share gun stories.

I kinda go out of my way to be formal and show courtesy though so I dunno, maybe it's my demeanor that gets me what i want...btw, I'm a 30 yr old 5'4" asian dude and I prolly resemble some high school grad :p
 
I'm a manager of a retail store, and while we don't we don't sell guns or ammo, I don't care what color you are. As long as I see green I'm happy. If a store owner/manager doesn't understand that don't go there, I won't.
 
Many of you who work in gun stores or retail have said the same thing, as long as you see green, the color of the person doesn't matter.

The problem here is that, some people associate more/less green with certain ethnicity, thus resulting in variations on how they are treated even before the green is seen.

I believe that such behavior truly happens, intentionally or subconscioulsy, but this also extends to gender as well as how one present himself/herself and his/her demanor. I think it's just fact of life. You just move on instead of worrying about it because I'm not gonna waste my time straighting everyone out.
 
"Just out of curiosity how old do you look? I've have been "hassled" at the range & at gunshops in my younger days for looking to young to be there alone. I've been given the cold shoulder too when looking at a car cause of what I'm wearing, it's not smart on the sellers side (seen that first hand at Mercedes when the salesmen wouldn't help a young lady in her early 20's, turned out she was an actress from the show Roswell lol)."

i'm 25, but i probably look between 25-28
 
Just Jim's famous quote: "Time to shut this thread down, it isn't the high road. ( I seen a liberal ask for it yesterday so I am asking today.)"

I hope this thread isn't shut down. I once started a thread in an honest inquiry regarding political affiliations of gun owners. The responses were very informative, and very mature and respectful. The thread was quickly shut down. I was sad.

Well this issue is much more important and a-propos. I certainly hope it does not get shut down because a few people who've never experienced racism are convinced that others who have are imagining the racism. That is such an insult to a victim of racism. You weren't even there and you claim it doesn't exist and the victim is blowing things out of proportion. This is a topic that is extremely important to the high road. Isn't the high road about 2nd ammendment rights? The second ammendment makes no distinction with regards to race, ethinicity, creed, or religion. It is disgusting that private citizens and gun sellers should practice such bigotry. Of course a private merchant is allowed to refuse service to whomever they want. But just like posts about Walmart infringing upon gun buyers' privacy gets a lot of attention and becomes a rallying point for people to call for a boycott, we, as 2A supporters have a moral obligation to take the high road and rally around one of our members who has been the recipient of racism and boycott such racist establishments. Why should one of our members who has felt such injustice be muted by us or our moderators?
 
I'm a white guy in his mid-20s, and I'll chime in... YES, I've witnessed racism at gun shops and gun shows. I had a guy at a gun show with Nazi memorabilia. He showed me an Adolph Hitler postcard and said, "It would make a great gift for your friends in Haifa". Except, oh wait, my Israeli friends are from Haifa.

I've also witnessed a dealer defer a black customer to guns that were "more in his price range" (ie, Jiminez and a bunch of saturday night specials). I also listened to another gun store employee talk about how glad he was that he had a CCW " 'cause one time this black came up to him who look like he was up to no good."

Remember that some gun owners who embody the typical "stereotype" think everyone is like them: White, Republican, Born-Again Christian, SUV-driving, a hunter, owns a big dog, etc. When their bubble is burst, they may not know how to cope. Or they may just continue to live in their bubble where they think that people who "choose to be gay" want to take away their guns, slash the tires on their H2, and pin their eye-lids open so that they can force them to read, "The Origin of Species".

So yes, racism does still occur within the gun community, but then again, it occurs in the community at large. For our part on THR, we try to combat it (note that unlike other gun forums, we don't take kindly to gay bashing). I'm sorry that you had to encounter it, but rest assured, incidents like this will diminish as time moves on.

As for me, I'm off to read GQ, then head to bed...
 
There are the folks who assume that folks who are dressed for a night on the town are "gangsters." Yeah, well, not everyone lives in the city, you know?

But profiling? If some guy walks in, and he is putting out a vibe that he wants to do something not quite kosher, I'm going to find any excuse to get him to walk out the door that I can.

My former favorite gun store (now out of business due to a death in the family) had a guy come in once - he proceeded to "try on" a shot gun, to see if he could reach the trigger with the barrel to his head. They refused to sell him a gun. Some of y'all would argue that it was his right to purchase it. Fine. They called around to other stores, to let them know not to sell him one. Until they go one guy who replied "Thanks - I'll make sure he pays cash."

Sick.
 
If it is so reprehensible to think that the pimp-walking guy dressed in thug wear is actually a thug, why is it so acceptable to assume that the white guy who votes republican, and drives an SUV is a racist, gay bashing, knuckle-dragging, holy roller who dances with snakes?

WOW, some of you guys have seen offensive photographs, and heard offensive comments by bigots. How have you survived the trauma?

Offending YOU is just evil, offending ME is, well..... it's just your right to be a bigot, and as a "typical white guy" I don't deserve any civility at all, do I? "Typical White guys" don't have an entire grievance industry to protect us from being offended.
 
Like the folks in some of those videos I flip by on cable? You know, the ones who say they dress like them, act like them and sing about them. I probably have less fear of the real ones than the wannabees.

Otherwise, I'd have to rely on the pics of the convicted ones I've seen in the paper.

Heck, if a guy walked in wearing a baseball uniform I'd probably assume he was a ballplayer. Maybe not, but I'm not going to assume right off the bat he isn't.

Then there are the easy ones. They're wearing the name of their motorcycle club or gang right on their back. Don't even need to look at their tats.

John
 
I live in one of the supposedly "progressive" states in the nation. Everybody loves everybody, peace , love and marijuana and all that. I have NEVER been discriminated against while at a gun store or shop. I was however once trying to buy a jar of Jamaican jerk sauce in a store in South Brunswick and was told to "Get the f**K out of my store whitey". I set the jar down and walked out. His prerogative...I left and never gave it another thought. I didn't have the urge to contact any support or activist groups or picket or complain to the ACLU, etc., etc. Go figure.
 
"I have a buddy in Georgia. He was telling me the other day about an arabic looking guy walking onto the gunstore/range 15 minutes before closing. The guy asked if he "HAD" to fill out paperwork for a gun. The owner replied, "YES". He then asked about buying a couple of Glocks and maybe a sniper rifle. When the owner refused to show him any guns without ID, the guy got mad and stomped off."

honestly, yeah, i think that was racial profiling. if he wanted to BUY them and wouldn't show ID then i would have no problem showing him the door. unless he looked like he was under 18 i don't see why they wouldn't show him the gun. i have a feeling people looking to commit acts of terrorism could obtain guns without going to the neighborhood gun shop.
BUT, i don't see why the guy just wouldn't show the owner any ID, that's a little shady and worthy of some further investigation.
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My local gun shop made me show my ID before they'd show me a gun the first time I went in there. It's a store policy probably because they won't show guns to people who aren't legally allowed to buy them. They don't ask for my ID anymore because they know me and know that my FOID is good for another year and a half.
 
WOW, some of you guys have seen offensive photographs, and heard offensive comments by bigots. How have you survived the trauma?

Offending YOU is just evil, offending ME is, well..... it's just your right to be a bigot, and as a "typical white guy" I don't deserve any civility at all, do I? "Typical White guys" don't have an entire grievance industry to protect us from being offended.
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Travis, we can agree in one respect. There are alot of people keeping racism alive in this country, and alot of them are not white males. I have been discriminated against because I was white, because I was American, and because I was in the military. I feel like you. The best thing to do is get over it. Let it slide.

When we ignore racism, it loses power over us. When we make it into a joke, we destroy it all together.

The OP wasn't saying that racism is rampant in the gun world. He merely stated that he felt discriminated against, and was looking for others who shared a common experience. What is so wrong with that? I wouldn't have brought the subject up, but in a way I am glad he did. Like it or not, as gun owners we are often stereotyped as white-trash rednecks, or gang-banging thugs. All races in the gun community will have to fight a stereotype at some point or another. Perhaps it would be best if we took notes from each other on the subject instead of getting angry.
 
"I have a buddy in Georgia. He was telling me the other day about an arabic looking guy walking onto the gunstore/range 15 minutes before closing. The guy asked if he "HAD" to fill out paperwork for a gun. The owner replied, "YES". He then asked about buying a couple of Glocks and maybe a sniper rifle. When the owner refused to show him any guns without ID, the guy got mad and stomped off."

honestly, yeah, i think that was racial profiling. if he wanted to BUY them and wouldn't show ID then i would have no problem showing him the door. unless he looked like he was under 18 i don't see why they wouldn't show him the gun. i have a feeling people looking to commit acts of terrorism could obtain guns without going to the neighborhood gun shop.
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But why does this *have* to mean racisim?

Could it not be an owner who's had a bad day and doesn't want to yank out a couple of Glocks and maybe a rifle or two 15 minutes before the shop closes down? I mean, it's not real good business, but does every action that is not 100% perfect customer service necessarly mean racisim and profiling?
 
Well, it seems that this thread has about run it's course. Before it ends, I'd like to put forth a couple of thoughts.

I am the most biased white guy that you can imagine. Listen up. I said biased, not prejudiced!

I'm thinking back some 57 years to a place somewhere north of the 38th parallel, (you could look it up), when a fellow next to me saved my skinny white butt from being run through with a terrible bayonet and certain death. Three or four slugs from a .45 cal "grease gun" at 20 yards is the reason that I am alive and here today.

It didn't make any difference that the finger on the trigger of that grease gun was black. Thats right.

They say that there are no athiests in foxholes, and I say there are no raciests either!

Gawd, how he used to chew my butt. I can hear hime now, "Damn you Charlie, what the hell are you trying to do? Get us all killed? I brought 12 guys in here and I'm going to bring 12 guys out. Except you, maybe I'll leave you behind! I believed him, too. We didn't pay much attention to the officers, but when Sarge headed our way there was going to be hell to pay. Sarge had seen combat in World War II and knew what he was talking about.

Sadly, Sarge did not bring 12 men back. A shell from a T-34 tank wiped out his position along with four other squad members. That day red blood flowed from a black man in order that the rest of us could piss and moan about a perceived slight that doesn't amount to a pinch of sour owl shlt.

Use common sense and grow up already!

The tears are beginning to flow. I can't write anymore. Goodbye, Sarge.

Charlie
 
Pretty much everything that could be said has been said on here already. But I thought I would toss out my $.02 anyway.
To answer the original question. Yes discrimination is everywhere. Not just gun owners and not just racial discrimination. (Although gun owners as a whole and especially on THR seem to be a great lot of people.)
I have had to deal with discrimination of various forms. I'm a rather tall
(5'10") white woman in my late 30s who is handicapped. And I ride motorcycles and have lots of other outdoor interests/hobbies. You can just pick out whichever aspect you want and I can give you instances in which I have been discriminated against or had jokes that were in very poor taste made about me.
I'm sorry that you have had a couple of bad experiences in the gun related fields. I hope you can find good folks to deal with in the future. Just remember there are jerks everywhere and try to not let them get the best of you.
Charlie OldPhart:
I read your post and it was stirring. I would like to thank you for doing what most of us cannot. Also I'm so sorry for the loss of your Sarge. Time heals a lot but it only helps so much. He must have been a great guy for you to care so much after all these years. That speaks volumes for him and for you!
 
I believe most, if not all humans are racist to some degree or another; it’s just painful to admit it. We aren’t born with a prejudice/attitude, it’s the influences throughout our lives that shape, build and distort it: parents, family, friends, media, colleagues, actual experiences etc all help to form our stereotypes of people.

These are expressed time and again on THR when referring to people from other countries or religions or even different US States. Some are meant to be humorous, and often are, but some are probably a true reflection of what the poster really feels i.e. a reflection of their prejudice.

The point is, having a prejudice isn’t against the law and doesn’t mean you are a bad person. The problem comes when you use your prejudice to treat someone unfairly. i.e. that’s when you discriminate and that’s when you can break the law and find yourself in a whole lot of trouble with some painful litigation filed against you. The law doesn’t take ignorance of equal opportunities or diversity issues as an excuse. (discrimination is ‘prejudice in action’)

Racism isn’t just about colour, race, religion etc it even exists between different parts of the same country, or districts in a city or even between sports teams – basically it’s everywhere to varying degrees.

As mature people we hopefully challenge our prejudices, open our minds and seek to dispel them. Sadly, all to often, we go around looking for re-enforcements of our prejudices and stereotypes of people and behave inappropriately towards them which often causes them to react accordingly leaving us with a ‘told you so’ attitude.

I don’t know whether the OP was discriminated against or not, but am happy to take his word for it. It could also have been, as already mentioned, just crap customer service.
 
Some people are just jerks. it aint about skin color. I was recently at a gun show in houston and Picked up a S&W number 3 from one of those wired tables. I noticed the guy at the table was telling everybody else, black and white, not to touch the guns and saw his sign not to handle merchandise. He didn't say anything to me. Most people on weekends are wearing t-shirts and jeans and I had on a golf shirt, khakis, and a Rolex with a nice haircut. Maybe he figured I had the money to buy something and the first thing I went for wasn't a Glock so I knew what I was doing. Who knows about these situations.
 
I have never been in a racial situation in a gun shop. Other places, YES. I do get watched a lot when I browse the inventory. I am short, skinny, white and look like I am 16 years old. People probably think I am a rich white boy from suburbia, but they are quite wrong. Other than that, I generally get good service. There is always that idiot you just want to slap across the counter, but they are just idiots. Better to just pity them because when they go home, to mom's house, they will still have to wash the dishes and make the bed.
 
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