Disheartened by "sportsmen"...

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Everybody want to use an “over the top” attitude to get what they want when things don’t go their way. Its more of a temper tantrum that they use to use on Ma and Pa to get that piece of candy they wanted. Also the attitude comes from the other side of the counter too; long day last customer was over the top etc etc. I want it now now now seems to be the way these days.

In the original post was the mention of too much swearing and look how much we use it right here on this board to emphasize some point.
Bereck -

Don't feel lonesome, friend. It happens in Tejas too. I'm up to almost 2,800 hunter ed. students, typically certified in "home study completion" classes with a maximum size of 8 to 10. They often fill up quickly this time of year - although I can't seem to give away slots in classes during the month of May.

What tends to make the home study completion "option" students even more testy is the fact that some seem to think that, because they have completed their "home study" online, I am obligated to give them a firm slot in a "completion class" RIGHT NOW.

It's been about 3 weeks ago now since I had a phone call late on a Friday afternoon from a guy on his cell phone. He said he was out in West Texas at his hunting lease and had just got word that he had to have a class in order to buy a license for an upcoming hunt in Colorado. One of his buddies had evidently researched on the internet the options for getting a class quickly and the "sportsman", upon my confirming what he needed to do (which involved going home to study and print out quiz results before a Sunday afternoon class), ended our discussion with "____ you, then".

I recall the guy saying that he lived in Weatherford, Texas, so I watched the registration forms quite carefully for the next couple of days, fully prepared to let him know about this little bit of criteria known as "attitude failure" - and that I was ashamed that I had to share my sport with people like him. As you know though, it's the other 95%+ that make it worthwhile.
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It happens every and anywhere. I work for a Major University and we have
students all over the US and the world. Same thing happens... they wait till
the last minute to register for or drop classes then want to blame the CSR
or the school for the full class or late charge that was always there.

They're fools and aren't the kind of people worth your time.
Ever thought of STARTING your answer with "my next class opening is ____". Shortcircuits the whole whinge, AND just might help you retain a customer.
I understand your meaning about diffusing people, but there is no reason to expect an attitude from telling someone a class is full, IMHO. The first question after that from most people would be "Is there another class?". I certainly wouldn't expect a vollunteer to put up with that attitude.
rayra said:
Ever thought of STARTING your answer with "my next class opening is ____". Shortcircuits the whole whinge, AND just might help you retain a customer.

They aren't "customers" per se, just potential hunters. I have tried that approach and received verbal abuse because that wasn't the class they wanted, they wanted *this* one... Thanks tho...

entropy: OBO HEP instructors, thank you for your appreciation. There is a *lot* of work involved in this volunteer position.

Byron Quick said:
It's not just hunters doing it. Try working in repossessions and collections

Computer Technical Support Specialist. Left because of ppl like this. :D

Missashot: One thing my G/F likes and hates about me is that I do not embarass easily in public. I do believe in a case as yours, I would have put in a performance eligible for Emmy consideration. I commend you for keeping your cool, tho.

Border: To be honest, I don't know where I caught that line from. I woke up one day and there it was. I've watched so many movies it could have been from the Care Bears for all I know ;) And I appreciate your thanks.

Greybeard: I topped 3K this year. In all of that time, there was only one student I failed based on attitude. On a 3-day class, he showed up on day one and related to another instructor and myself that he shoots things from his granddad's back porch. Things like rabbits, squirrels, robins, blue jays... more than that, he's in my class, so he doesn't even have a hunting license and, finally, his GD lives in Amherst where no hunting at all is allowed. His GD was p.o.'ed until we explained why. Complete 180 on GD's attitude. I think he even beat the kid. ;)

In closing, I do have to admit that there have been many students that have contacted me and, in one way or another, made me feel good about what I do. One sent me a framed picture of him and his first deer, a few others have "shared the wealth"... I guess it's just the 4 months from when the fall classes start to when they end that I get uptight about some of these callers.

I just wish they would realize they cannot wait uintil the last minute to register and we are volunteers. Maybe step into our shoes and see how much effort we exert to "git-r-done"... Thanks for the support, ppl.


Now for my final question. Am I and my partner the only instuctors that have to put up with ppl that get verbally abusive when ppl wait until the last minute to register for a class? If not, how do you deal with ppl like this?
Funny you should ask I was just thinking of attempting to become a Hunter Safety Instructor again. I tried this last year (or maybe the year before) down here on Long Island. I called a guy at DEC over 20 times over a period of several months. I also sent him several emails. All I ever hear about hunter safety courses is how full they are, how short handed the DEC is regarding instructors, and how badly they need people. Well the not so respectful, not nice, not useful person (all my opinion of him) to whom I spoke kept giving me the brush off by either not returning my calls, or by trying to schedule me for some kind of an instructors retreat (or advanced course) somewhere upstate. I had to explain at least 5 times to him that I was not an instructor but, that I wanted to take the instructor class and that I could teach the firearms course (being a firearms instructor and because I hunt with guns). Then when this finally got through to him, he wanted me to be a bow instructor (I have not hunted with a bow in many years) and he wanted me to teach something about waterfowl (about which I know just about squat). It was almost absolute insanity dealing with him. I just gave up but, I can assure you I told him where to stick it after him having wasted several hours of my time as I tried to register for an instructor class.

While there was probably no excuse for the guy who called you and then cursed you out; maybe guys like the one I dealt with at NYS DEC are the reason that some so called sportmen call you up and curse you out. Dealing with a guy like the one with whom I deallt could certainly make anyone sour. Of course, maybe the guy who called you is just a bonehead but, it maybe possible that he has tried to register by going through DEC and then getting bad info on when to call you. Still no excuse even if it is a sad state of affairs at DEC.

Best regards,
Glenn B

PS: now that I remembered all of that I am pretty sure I don't want to be an instructor badly enough to have to deal with the same DEC guy again...
Glenn Bartley: OBO the normal ppl associated with the DEC, I would like to apologize. Knowing how strapped we are for instuctors, I'm a little confused as to why he would act like that. But there is a way around it.

When I started teaching, I found an instructor I like (wholly by chance) and told him that I was considering becoming an instructor. After teaching with him for a few years (to see if it would be something that I wouldstick with), we finally filled out the application and the process began. My slowdown came when I was being reviewed and the master instructor confused me with someone who showed an interest and was helping us that weekend and he hadn't brought an eval sheet with him. So, the process took 2.5 years. If anyone would like to go the same route (try teaching first and going from there) I would be more than happy to help. I teach 7+ classes a year (2 bow, 5 Shotgun) and we are thinking about adding 2 more (one of each).

I guess we just have to fight the good fight and show what it *really* means to be a sportsman.

Toivo is pretty close to home on his analysis. I'm an instructor in a much less populous state. While I don't get abuse to my face, it seems as if every class I will have parents call the second night wanting to bring child down after the first night's instruction has been missed. Our law requires a minimum of 10 hr contact time, and when we don't bend the law to suit Mom or Dad, they act as if it's our fault they didn't see the ads and announcements. I've been giving the course about the same time for 20+ years now, so they're just not paying attention.

The real sadness is that these parents are teaching kids that it's someone else's fault or the rules shouldn't apply to them. We try to emphasize personal responsibility and ethics in our classes, and our biggest obstacles are the folks who should be setting good examples.

That victim mentality is going to cause a lot more trouble as the youngster ages, so we are pretty adamant about not letting the offending adult get away with it. We're here because we like kids and our shooting sports, and we're determined to make them folks we'd like to hunt or shoot with.

As much as I would like to be a Hunter Safety Istructor, I will not teach before I am given the training course that DEC offers. I just will not place myself in a position to possibly be sued by someone who gets shot by someone I trained; I would not have the proper training to legally stand on when defending myself. I may try again though to register for an instructor course but; if is going to take 2 1/2 years - well I imagine they will always be very short of instructors.

Do you have any idea of when the next instructor class will open in this area? I live in nassau County but as I recall the class was somewhere higher upstate than LI.

All the best,
Glenn B
It's a change

Sorry Berek,
It seems to be a move towards worse behavior.
It's been a long time coming, though. You've seen the development in our sports people, in music, disrespect towards men, adults, etc. in television.

My wife wanted to go to a local bakery the other day, she walked in on a young man telling off the workers there because the cake didn't have the exact writing on it and he was yelling that now his kid's birthday was ruined. The cake decorator could have wiped it out and rewrite it in minutes, but because the customer was such an a-hole, no one made the offer. My wife got security and they escorted him out of there without his cake.

So, sorry, it is throughout our society. No respect nowadays.

This is why I get my daily fix of THR. Hang out with people that take The High Road.
Glen: Have you tried the region 2 HEP number? 631-444-0258? I can try my coordinator and see what I come up with. If I recall, they're usually held in the late winter/early spring. I'll see what I can find.


Update: I checked it out and found that even when assisting, you cannot be held liable if someone gets shot by one of your students. In fact, as long as the cirriculum is followed, the only person that can be held liable is the student themself. The main purpose of teaching with a certified instructor first is to have someone on hand to correct/guide you. Anything that happens at the class is covered by the DEC's insurance. After the class, it's all them.
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So, sorry, it is throughout our society. No respect nowadays.
You're telling me! I can't tell you how many times I've found shopping carts against my vehicles and the vehicles usually damaged somewhat. The other day I had a chance to make one of these a-holes think. Coming out of a bulk store, I watched one of the a-holes load up his car and then shove the cart back away from him where it sailed completely across the aisle and bumped into another car. The cart corral was a mere 20 feet away, but then he was more important than the rest of us wasn't he? I yelled "Hey!" As he turned, I said, "Now you wanna go get that cart and put it where it belongs?" embarrassing him in front of his wife and kids, but I really didn't care. He did it as I checked for damage to the other car. Had there been any, I would have called the police.

I guess he could have told me where to get off, but I was PO'd enough to make him do it.
Some moron took my items out throw them on the bottom shelf and stole my dang cart.

At least you still had your stuff! My best friend and I were at Mal-Wart and someone stole her cart while we weren't paying attention. It had a pair of jeans she was going to buy and her daughter's shoes (Evy wanted to wear the new ones, so her old tennies were in the box) in it, and we never recovered them. We looked all around the area not 10 minutes after it happened, and a few announcements were made over the PA. No luck.

Bravo, Stevie-Ray!
I think the root of this problem is the whole "customer is always right" B.S.

People have learned that whining/carrying-on will not only be tollerated, it will be rewarded by making the PITA an exception to whatever rules they dont want to follow. What is particularly amusing is when these people enter into a non-retail establishment and are honest-to-God confused/angry when people refuse to tollerate them and tell them to shut up and leave (Bryon mentioned hospitals which are probably the best example because people *think* they are a customer service oriented business when it isnt necessarily so).

An excellent way to see this in action is to work in a grocery store near a retirement community like I did in highschool. Wanna return a bag full of cherry pits because they cherries that they were housed in werent satisfactory? Just make a big enough scene. How about a partial gallon of milk that has spend the last three months in your fridge? No problem, just make sure that you bring it in during the busiest part of the day.
Civility is the Lubricant of Society

First, I'd like to say thanks to Berek and all the other voluteers who do the Hunter Ed, First Aid, CPR, and other classes I've taken over the years. You all do a real service to society.

I agree with the general observation that society seems to be coarsening, way too much "gimme/takeme/buyme/showme/Iwant/mefirst-ism" and I also blame alot of it on perfunctory PC/cultural diresity that encourages self-absorbtion rather than real tolerance and consideration of others.

My pet peeve is the same as Missashot's - my wife walks with a cane and moves slowly, so I'm usually out in front to catch the door for her. I am constantly amazed at the number of lazy idiots who don't even see her in their haste to scamper thru ahead of her, let alone say 'thanks'. I've been known to hip-check or let the door slip on the really obnoxious ones with an "Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't see you . . . " :evil:
a non-retail establishment and are honest-to-God confused/angry when people refuse to tollerate them and tell them to shut up and leave (Bryon mentioned hospitals which are probably the best example because people *think* they are a customer service oriented business when it isnt necessarily so).

So when they keep sending me bills, can I say "Dude, I heard you were running a charity"?
Some time ago I watched a candid camera show in which an actor pretending to be a fast food employee would short-change people at the register, then start arguing with the patrons when they brought up his mistake.

I remember the first 4 or 5 people reacted poorly, taking only a very short period of time to become vulgar, lose their composure, and get all fired-up.

But then there was one middle-aged guy that reacted differently. After bringing the error to the clerk's mistake and then being called a liar by the clerk, he just said "Okay then," and let it go, with a smile on his face. He just stepped back and waited for his food.

In the post-gag interview, they asked him why he reacted in that way, and didn't "fight for what was rightly his." He said that he could tell by the clerk's reaction to his initial challenge that the clerk wasn't going to listen to reason. Intead of arguing, the guy explained, he decided "to move on with my life." Then he pointed to his head and said "Nobody rents space up here without my approval. It was obvious to me that the clerk didn't rate occupancy at any price, let alone $3-something in change."

I was always impressed by his answer, and it's helped me maintain a cool head in more than one potentially serious confrontation, allowing me to keep things in perspective and weigh what's really important.

The world's full of jerks. When you find them, they've already wasted enough of your time. Why let them "rent space" in your head or disrupt your life any more than they already have? Easier said than done, I know, but it's something to think about.
Language is changing

It seems to me that language in the US is changing. What used to be taboo language is now common.

When I first heard M***** F***** I was shocked. Seriously shocked. Of course I was born in '52.

When I cautioned my 16 year old daughter for her language she informed me that "DAD! Those words are not swear words anymore! Our teachers use them." I won't repeat them here.

But regardless of the swearing, people need to be more polite. Manners are a social lubricant. There is no justification for someone venting on you in that manner.

I usually don't bother to correct the ignorant. Life has a way of grinding them down without any input from me.

Besides, "Cast not your pearls before the swine, lest they turn again and rend you."

Or I could quote Curly of the 3 Stoogies when being sworn in in court, "Do I Swear? - No but I know all the words."
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