oneounceload
member
Why do I need a BOS? I don't when I sell a lawn mower, kitchen knife, or anything else of mine. Cash for gun, thanks and goodbye
Disliking on-line gun sales
- Thread starter ID-shooting
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Why do I need a BOS? I don't when I sell a lawn mower, kitchen knife, or anything else of mine. Cash for gun, thanks and goodbye
22-rimfire
Member
Don't really care about bill of sales. I just want to know to whom I sell a gun to. Nothing more.
I think we are sort of quibbling about details. I have never had a problem selling if I choose to sell. If I am buying, I pretty much voluteer ID, but that is sort of a case by case thing and situational. I don't want to sell through a FFL dealer if I can help it. I find the 4473 cumbersome and NICs check irratating when I know I am perfectly legal.
I think we are sort of quibbling about details. I have never had a problem selling if I choose to sell. If I am buying, I pretty much voluteer ID, but that is sort of a case by case thing and situational. I don't want to sell through a FFL dealer if I can help it. I find the 4473 cumbersome and NICs check irratating when I know I am perfectly legal.
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GoWolfpack
Member
- Joined
- May 13, 2009
- Messages
- 522
And that's all any non-FFL paperwork is, processed wood pulp that "alleges" a sale. Who is going to do the vetting of your paperwork? If your BOS is real, or at least has real information for a real person on it, is that enough to get a warrant to search that person's belongings for the gun you claim to have sold?
That question just occurred to me, now I'm curious. Suppose a gun you bought new then sold is used in a crime. The police show up at your door and shoot your dog. Then they ask politely where you were when the Priscilla's adult bookstore was robbed with your gun. You say you sold the gun, and here's the BOS with buyer's name and address. Is that alone enough for them to get a warrant to arrest the buyer or to search the buyer's house for the gun? All your BOS proves definitely is that you know the name and address of at least one real person. All the police can verify based on the information you gave them is Fred Smith is a real person who really lives on Imagination Highway.
22-rimfire
Member
The bill of sale (BOS) "proves" nothing. I do suspect that the police would check out the buyer if you showed them a hand written BOS. They might check you out as well if they have cause.
I recall people I worked with creating receipts for expense reports for expenses that they did not have a receipt for. I also recall some creative receipts as well by some.
I recall people I worked with creating receipts for expense reports for expenses that they did not have a receipt for. I also recall some creative receipts as well by some.
herrwalther
Member
- Joined
- May 1, 2013
- Messages
- 8,130
Your gun, your rules. Following the rules right up until the sale is a great way to cover your a** if something were to go wrong. BOS is not required but always a good idea if the firearm is ever connected back to you. I turned down about 6 buyers for just a CT laser for one of my firearms merely because they were overseas and I didn't want to deal with ITARs or shipping costs. I ended up finding a good buyer for it and I got a little extra money in my pocket.
I just completed a face to face transaction in IL for a gun that was found online. The seller insisted on a FFL transfer in addition to the standard 72 hour waiting waiting period. I balked at that because it could be ruinous for the deal on my end. FFL fees are the only thing necessary to turn a good deal into a bad deal with all the potential online vendors and auctions, but the seller insisted, and then agreed to cover the cost of the FFL transfer himself.
I understand adopting a cover yer @~~ policy when selling a firearm but it was unnecessary and doubled the amount of time required for the transaction. No big deal but it definitely made me think twice. If the circumstances were different I may have politely rescinded my offer and gone off to find something else, leaving the seller to suspect I wasn't a legal buyer.
I understand adopting a cover yer @~~ policy when selling a firearm but it was unnecessary and doubled the amount of time required for the transaction. No big deal but it definitely made me think twice. If the circumstances were different I may have politely rescinded my offer and gone off to find something else, leaving the seller to suspect I wasn't a legal buyer.
X-JaVeN-X
Member
I absolutely agree with your decision to not sell to those two.
I don't see why people make a stink about giving a copy of their DL? I sold a gun to my mother and have a copy of her DL and Bill of sale in my file cabinet.
What exactly do you think is going to happen by giving someone a copy of your DL? What info does it have? Your address? How fat or how tall you are? WHOOOOO CARES? So, you'll show it to them but they can't have a copy? If they wanted to do something with the information for personal gain...they could just remember your address and name...Ever heard of the internet? You can find pretty much any info that is on a driver's license on the net....or even a phone book.
If that gun does get used down the road for a crime...I have documentation that says I am not the owner. Yes, I realize that I can tell the police "I sold the gun."....but, in my mind, the documentation takes away all doubt of that fact. I try to treat most things in life with a "better safe than sorry" mindset.
I don't see why people make a stink about giving a copy of their DL? I sold a gun to my mother and have a copy of her DL and Bill of sale in my file cabinet.
What exactly do you think is going to happen by giving someone a copy of your DL? What info does it have? Your address? How fat or how tall you are? WHOOOOO CARES? So, you'll show it to them but they can't have a copy? If they wanted to do something with the information for personal gain...they could just remember your address and name...Ever heard of the internet? You can find pretty much any info that is on a driver's license on the net....or even a phone book.
If that gun does get used down the road for a crime...I have documentation that says I am not the owner. Yes, I realize that I can tell the police "I sold the gun."....but, in my mind, the documentation takes away all doubt of that fact. I try to treat most things in life with a "better safe than sorry" mindset.
45_auto
Member
You really believe that the cops are so stupid they aren't going to know that you typed "North Carolina Driver's License" into Google Images and just photo shopped a fake name and address onto one of those then printed it out? Might be in your best interests to expand your mind a little.
https://www.google.com/search?gs_rn...urce=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=nUjoUYjRM5jG4AOxwoCYBQ
http://a.espncdn.com/i/eticket/20071015/photos/etick_jray14b_310.jpg
http://www.fakeidfree.com/id-card-d...icense/fake-north-carolina-id-drivers-license
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Arkansas Paul
Member
Well what happens in your mind, is wrong. It does not take away all doubt. Someone can type up a Bill of Sale on their computer at any time, sign a fake name to it and present it to an officer. Doesn't mean squat. And if my high school buddies could get ahold of fake IDs that were realistic enough to fool the person selling them cigarettes and cans of skoal, I'm sure that's not too hard either.
It is similar to passing new gun legislation. Feel good B.S. that doesn't accomplish squat. But hey, its your stuff, you can require whatever you want.
Elkins45
Member
I think the title of this thread is a little misleading because what we are actually talking about is a face to face transaction that was initiated online. Online gun sales means Gunbroker or Buds to me, not Armslist. Armslist is just an online facilitator of FTF transactions.
With that said, I will always ask a buyer to show me a KY drivers license because selling to a resident of a different state is illegal. If someone won't show me proof of KY residency then they certainly won't get my gun. That's doubly true if it's a gun that has a 4473 form in my name. I certainly respect that others may have differing opinions, but that's what works for me.
With that said, I will always ask a buyer to show me a KY drivers license because selling to a resident of a different state is illegal. If someone won't show me proof of KY residency then they certainly won't get my gun. That's doubly true if it's a gun that has a 4473 form in my name. I certainly respect that others may have differing opinions, but that's what works for me.
Arkansas Paul
Member
Agreed.
I believe it's only illegal if you KNOW the buyer is from out of state. However, showing an ID to someone to prove state of residence isn't a big deal to me. As I said before, I'll gladly show my DL or CHL long enough to put at rest any question sof the place of my residence. Just no copies.
X-JaVeN-X
Member
Hope you're planning to have a nice workout after all that stretching....
If the cops are that interested that they feel they need to investigate me...then what happens when they look up the "fake name and address" that I photoshop/printed off the internet and it doesn't match at all or that that person does not exist?
I prefer to have some semblance of proof (as invalid as you seem to think it is) over the alternative which is just my word on the matter.
X-JaVeN-X
Member
I don't know how old you are, but the technology that goes into making an ID these days is far beyond what it was when my parents were in school trying to fool the guy at the ABC counter. Someone with the ability to fake modern IDs likely has options for getting handguns other than buying from some random person across state lines. If a bill of sale or an ID mean nothing...then why do so many transactions require them? Why do I need to show my ID when I get my CHP renewed? If I faked everything and cops decided to investigate the information...what are the chances it all matches up?
The contrary is that they check the information I have and it corroborates with everything else they have...again...better safe than sorry.
You still didn't address my other issue...if the information on an ID is so useless...why not let someone have a copy of it? What's it gonna hurt...right? Again...I'll take my semblance of proof over your fart in the wind.
So why don't you post a copy of your DL here on THR if there's nothing on it that anyone can use?
Seriously.
You're gonna preach that there's nothing on your DL worth protecting, post a copy here.
You won't even use your real name here on the forum (nor would most to include me) but preach that there's no harm in giving a copy of it and all you DL info to a complete stranger to hold forever and do who knows what with.
Ever heard of PII??
Doesn't sound like it.
I suggest you read the following:
http://www.fs.fed.us/r1/fire/nrcg/BulletinBoard/PII_guidelines.pdf
It seems you have a lot to learn about Identity Theft.
Keep giving out copies of your Drivers License and you'll learn real quick.
Edited to add: Absolutely, under no circumstances should you allow a private party to copy info off of your DL.
Absolutely, under no circumstances should allow a private party to xerox copy your DL and retain that info.
PII is the reason most states only have you "sight" the ID of a buyer to administrate the private sale of a firearm.
It would not matter to me if you had a washing machine box full of 400 dollar Colt Pythons and Smith & Wesson Registered Magnums and were selling them in the sheriffs office' parking lot; if me giving you a copy of my DL was a requirement of sale, I'd pass.
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Elkins45
Member
A washing machine box full of Registered Magnums and Pythons probably has more cash value than a lot of people's identities
Do you feel differently about letting them see it vs. letting them copy it? Would you let an FFL copy it?
22-rimfire
Member
I take it you are unwilling to fill out a 4473 or have a NICs check done? To each his own. If everyone was like me, the world would be a pretty boring place. I would assume somebody like this was hiding something and I would refuse to sell a firearm to them if they waved $100 bills in my face.
What precisely do you believe most private parties are going to do that "public" parties don't do? Oh well....
Arkansas Paul
Member
The reason why I won't let someone have a copy when I'm buying a gun is very simple. Because I don't have to. You want to follow the law, fine, I'm a law abiding man and I'm on board with that. You want to make up your own crap and require my personal information, sell your gun to somebody else. I don't like excessive gun control/requirements whether it be government mandated or just some yahoo selling a gun. The only difference is, I have to do it when buying from a shop, and I don't when buying from you.
45_auto
Member
xjavenx said:
Ever heard of a thing called the "internet"? About half the high school kids around here seem to have fake ID's.
http://www.saratogapolice.org/news.php?id=87
http://idchief.pw/index.php
Why do you think the gun-grabbers are so anxious to outlaw private sales?
22-rimfire
Member
That is it in a nut shell.
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