DIY Auto Powder Trickler for Beam Scale

peels

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....It's time for another DIY project! This one I must say was inspired (one again) by our resident gadget guru @jmorris. I saw his posts using a motorized powder tricker with a balance scale and photo switch a while ago and decided to give it a try.

I started the project using a small stepper motor to drive the trickler, and it worked nicely, but the trickler that I have (Redding) and way I had it controlled was prone to overthrows. No matter what I did, I can not get it to stop dropping multiple kernels at a time. I then came across the "Open Trickler" by Eric Higgins. I don't have a lab grade electronic scale that would replicate that project, but I borrowed his method of building a vibration trickler (similar to the Omega/Dandy tricker).

He documented the trickler build nicely, so I won't replicate that info. The one thing that I found to be tricky was pressing in of the cap screw into the brass pipe...the best way I got the screw into the brass pipe was to chuck the screw into a drill and file down the head a little bit at a time until it can fit into the brass pipe with a little bit of hammer persuasion. Another thing was that simple rubber o-rings did not adequately hold the trickler tube in place to stop it from rotating over time due to the vibration. I 3D printed a couple of small clamps and used it to hold the rubber o-rings against the trickler body. This change also had the benefit to reducing rattling of the trickler tube and allowed a much wider adjustment range of the PWM% to get to the ideal vibration speed. I also 3D printed a thin disk with a 2 degree incline so I can adjust the desired drop tube level.


As for the photo interrupter sensor, I ended up using 2x 5/16" Slot PCB Photo switch. One of the switch is about 1.5mm lower than the other. The idea was to go fast until the first switch trips, and then slow down the trickler until the second switch is tripped.


I prototyped it up with an Arduino Uno. What I ended up with really was a copy of the Omega Auto Tricker (discontinued). I added a switche so I can select different settings for stick powder vs ball powder. Added another switch to toggle between auto trickling using the photo switches or just manual trickling with 2 speeds control buttons. There is a small LED that will light up when the second sensor is tripped. That is used to adjust the sensor height. Once everything worked properly, I transferred the project to an Adafruit Pro Trinket to keep the project box small.


It took a little bit of trial and error to fine tune the settings (tuning the vibration motor control voltage via PWM) for both the slow and fast speed settings, but once done, I can start with a dropped charge that is about 0.2 to 0.3 grains short of the target powder weight, once I hit the go button, can have a final trickled charge in about 12 to 15 seconds. Testing indicate that the final trickled charge should be within +/- 1 single kernel of stick power (Varget, H4350, etc.), with vast majority of time being right on the desired weight.

Weighing charges is now quicker, but more importantly, it reduced mental strain of the manual trickling process. This change to the reloading process have made loading precision loads much less of a chore.
 
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That’s a neat project. Have you been able to test it for accuracy or resolution?
 
That’s a neat project. Have you been able to test it for accuracy or resolution?

Resolution is 1 kernel of Varget. I confirmed both accuracy and resolution by letting it auto trickle to a stop, then remove one kernel, then start auto trickle again. Out of 20 tries, 19 times it stopped again after dispensing 1 kernel. There was one time that required 2 kernels before it stopped again (for this instance, I had to remove 2 kernels before the program will start to auto trickle again). This level of repeatability really is attributed to the responsiveness of the 10-10 scale...IMO. The photo switch is very repeatable on the trip point.

I can confidently say that 90%+ of the time you will be dead on to the kernel to get to the target weight. the other 10% of the time you may be 1 kernel low or 1 kernel high. I'm happy with that!
 
Congratulations on building this gadget. What I am wondering about is how manual trickling causes mental strain.

I think the mental strain is proportional to the degree of OCD ;)

For me, it takes quite a bit of concentration in order to get the precision of powder throw that I'm looking for. The inability of the Redding trickler to dispense a single kernel reliably is probably the primary cause of the angst. Often times, at the point where I know I only need 1 maybe 2 more kernels to get to the target weight....trying to coax the trickler to do precisely that is what causes mental strain for me.

With this auto trickler, I no longer have to concentrate at dispensing the powder. And knowing how accurate and repeatable the tool is now capable of producing....now I just need to look at the scale balance needle to confirm the results are good and then proceed to the next step.

I don't know if everyone will feel the same....but I find that liberating...
 
Well done - great job.
It may interest you to know that I designed and made the prototypes of the Omega auto-trickler for Dandy in around 2010.
This was the second of four prototypes:
(1) Omega auto trickler prototype No 2. Date 03/04/2011 - YouTube
That is awesome! It looks like you built your own switch using an IR LED and a photoelectric transistor? I didn't even think to try that even though I had those components...and those switches were inexpensive enough for me to just pick them up. Thanks for sharing the video!
 
Resolution is 1 kernel of Varget. I confirmed both accuracy and resolution by letting it auto trickle to a stop, then remove one kernel, then start auto trickle again. Out of 20 tries, 19 times it stopped again after dispensing 1 kernel. There was one time that required 2 kernels before it stopped again (for this instance, I had to remove 2 kernels before the program will start to auto trickle again). This level of repeatability really is attributed to the responsiveness of the 10-10 scale...IMO. The photo switch is very repeatable on the trip point.

I can confidently say that 90%+ of the time you will be dead on to the kernel to get to the target weight. the other 10% of the time you may be 1 kernel low or 1 kernel high. I'm happy with that!

Sometimes the kernels are just smaller than others, especially if you have been playing with your invention.

 
I think the mental strain is proportional to the degree of OCD ;)

For me, it takes quite a bit of concentration in order to get the precision of powder throw that I'm looking for. The inability of the Redding trickler to dispense a single kernel reliably is probably the primary cause of the angst. Often times, at the point where I know I only need 1 maybe 2 more kernels to get to the target weight....trying to coax the trickler to do precisely that is what causes mental strain for me.

With this auto trickler, I no longer have to concentrate at dispensing the powder. And knowing how accurate and repeatable the tool is now capable of producing....now I just need to look at the scale balance needle to confirm the results are good and then proceed to the next step.

I don't know if everyone will feel the same....but I find that liberating...

May I recommend a different brand of trickler. I started with an RCBS and still use it to this day. I am rather particular with my powder charges and it is easy to come up to the exact weight with it just using my thumb and finger. It isn't really needed now since you have your gadget perfected. I do enjoy seeing different solutions to one's problems though. :thumbup:
 
That is awesome! It looks like you built your own switch using an IR LED and a photoelectric transistor? I didn't even think to try that even though I had those components...and those switches were inexpensive enough for me to just pick them up. Thanks for sharing the video!

Yes, I made up a photo switch with photo transistor and a small filament bulb. The system worked very well, after the 4th prototype I'd managed to get all the electronics in the standard two button handset so it ran manually or auto all on two pencells.
This is the first design I made for Dandy, just see if the system would work as expected.
 
Sometimes the kernels are just smaller than others, especially if you have been playing with your invention.

Didn't realize it before, but it looks like you used a different photo switch in this video...and it apparently did not have any trip point consistency issues! That is good to know. I thought about using the type of sensor that have the LED and the photo transistor on the same side...but didn't know how to package 2 sensors without them interacting
 
Didn't realize it before, but it looks like you used a different photo switch in this video...and it apparently did not have any trip point consistency issues! That is good to know. I thought about using the type of sensor that have the LED and the photo transistor on the same side...but didn't know how to package 2 sensors without them interacting

That one was actually a proximity sensor and as long as the beam doesn’t move in the bearings, side to side it worked fine. I actually played with a few before I went with the big Omron. It doesn’t look as “high speed, low drag” as some of the others but has enough build into it to directly drive a relay for the motor.

I liked the looks of these but it would be a more involved project for those that don’t know electronics. They do the same job, just require a few more components to have a working project.

7CF62809-607E-41C5-BE15-B66F54A318A8.jpeg

Where the big one makes it a pretty simple project.

 
I got mental strain just reading the OP LOL. Neat contraption. I'll stick to my bent .303 case and practice my fine motor skills. If I get to an age and physical condition where this is no longer practical, hopefully I can fork over money to evil geniuses such as yourself to help me along.

Now, Design an electromagnetic sonde locator that reads to 100' depth of soil, ignores rebar and active EM interference, and is soldier proof, and I'll make us both multi millionaires!
 
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You have to just relax and let it do its thing, trust it.

I don’t have any problems with people being skeptical of new things. I am one of the guys that has to verify myself.

I used an A&D fx120i to see how well my contraption works as it has a higher resolution than my other measuring devices.



0.02 grains variation isn’t too shabby. That’s about what one kernel of extruded powders weights.
 
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I don’t have any problems with people being skeptical of new things. I am one of the guys that has to verify myself.

I used an A&D fx120i to see how well my contraption works as it has a higher resolution than my other measuring devices.



0.02 grains variation isn’t too shabby. That’s about what one kernel of extruded powders weights.

Well of course one verifies it fitst, but then relax and don’t stress over it.
 
@peels curious to see a zoomed out image of the set up you used for the sensors with the beam scale. Also curious if you have a parts list, in particular the sensors. Thanks

ETA : Sorry, I missed the link you provided for the photo sensors you used. I see they were uxcell 5/16" Slot PCB Photo Interrupter Slotted Optical Sensor Switch HY860H-A
 
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....It's time for another DIY project! This one I must say was inspired (one again) by our resident gadget guru @jmorris. I saw his posts using a motorized powder tricker with a balance scale and photo switch a while ago and decided to give it a try.

I started the project using a small stepper motor to drive the trickler, and it worked nicely, but the trickler that I have (Redding) and way I had it controlled was prone to overthrows. No matter what I did, I can not get it to stop dropping multiple kernels at a time. I then came across the "Open Trickler" by Eric Higgins. I don't have a lab grade electronic scale that would replicate that project, but I borrowed his method of building a vibration trickler (similar to the Omega/Dandy tricker).

He documented the trickler build nicely, so I won't replicate that info. The one thing that I found to be tricky was pressing in of the cap screw into the brass pipe...the best way I got the screw into the brass pipe was to chuck the screw into a drill and file down the head a little bit at a time until it can fit into the brass pipe with a little bit of hammer persuasion. Another thing was that simple rubber o-rings did not adequately hold the trickler tube in place to stop it from rotating over time due to the vibration. I 3D printed a couple of small clamps and used it to hold the rubber o-rings against the trickler body. This change also had the benefit to reducing rattling of the trickler tube and allowed a much wider adjustment range of the PWM% to get to the ideal vibration speed. I also 3D printed a thin disk with a 2 degree incline so I can adjust the desired drop tube level.


As for the photo interrupter sensor, I ended up using 2x 5/16" Slot PCB Photo switch. One of the switch is about 1.5mm lower than the other. The idea was to go fast until the first switch trips, and then slow down the trickler until the second switch is tripped.


I prototyped it up with an Arduino Uno. What I ended up with really was a copy of the Omega Auto Tricker (discontinued). I added a switche so I can select different settings for stick powder vs ball powder. Added another switch to toggle between auto trickling using the photo switches or just manual trickling with 2 speeds control buttons. There is a small LED that will light up when the second sensor is tripped. That is used to adjust the sensor height. Once everything worked properly, I transferred the project to an Adafruit Pro Trinket to keep the project box small.


It took a little bit of trial and error to fine tune the settings (tuning the vibration motor control voltage via PWM) for both the slow and fast speed settings, but once done, I can start with a dropped charge that is about 0.2 to 0.3 grains short of the target powder weight, once I hit the go button, can have a final trickled charge in about 12 to 15 seconds. Testing indicate that the final trickled charge should be within +/- 1 single kernel of stick power (Varget, H4350, etc.), with vast majority of time being right on the desired weight.

Weighing charges is now quicker, but more importantly, it reduced mental strain of the manual trickling process. This change to the reloading process have made loading precision loads much less of a chore.
What kind of motor are you using? Stepper or servo?

I did not expect this kind of content on THR, it's hella awesome seeing someone mess with microprocessors and homebrew systems.

Hmm. Why not use ADC to measure your charge and make it all one system? You can have incredibly precise charges using a higher resolution. Using a pressure sensor, of course.

Never worked with an Arduino, but I used an MSP-432 for school. You can use your scale to come up with the conversion after reading from the ADC memory register.
 
Nothing in this hobby is more tedious than manually tricking charges on a load cell type scale
 
@peels curious to see a zoomed out image of the set up you used for the sensors with the beam scale. Also curious if you have a parts list, in particular the sensors. Thanks

Here is a picture of the setup to get the sensors over the beam. I 3D printed the arm and the base. The base was printed with 5% fill (I think), so it left large cavities. You can see that I drilled into the cavities from the top and filled it with #7 shot to give it some stability.

I used 1/4-20 threaded rod and an appropriate sized spring under the arm to keep it in place and make it easy to adjust.

It's in pretty rough shape, and I may clean it up a bit later.....but it is working nicely!

Sensor_mounting_s.jpg
 
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