Do Glocks jam for anyone else?

[Manco]

No firearms designer is above Sir. Newton's laws. You want the lightest auto pistol in it's class? Lock your wrists.

I've never been able to limp-wrist an M&P (I've tried), and it weighs only a couple of ounces more than a Glock of comparable size. Weight is almost certainly a factor, but it's hardly the only one.

 

[GLOOB]

Have you weighed the actual frames? I bet the M&P frame is significantly heavier.

The actual weight of a GLOCK frame is comparable to things like... oh, say, a feather, a block of styrofoam, or a balloon animal.

For the most part, as long as there's a decent-sized hand at least halfway gripping it, there isn't a problem. So I don't have a problem with Glocks being made the way they are. If I ever foresee firing it with an improper grip in SD, I'd still say getting one shot is better than nothing (vs pistols with a GRIP SAFETY??) Also, a GLOCK limp-wrist malfunction is one of the easiest malfunctions to clear. Racking will do it. Or if recognized for what it is (and you only have one injured hand at your disposal) a teeny tap to the back of the slide with your chest would remedy the most common problem... failure to completely return to battery.

Now if I had smaller than average upper body mass and/or strength, I might worry. I'd also probably not like the recoil or grip circumference of the GLOCK to begin with, if I were that small.

But on the other hand, I am the first to admit that a GLOCK in 9mm has a pretty durn rough feeding action (and are by far the easiest to limp-wrist). They will easily hang up with the tip of a bullet jammed against the top rear of the chamber if given a chance, unlike all the larger caliber GLOCKS. And yet, they are considered the most reliable, so it can't be that bad!

 

[Manco]

Have you weighed the actual frames? I bet the M&P frame is significantly heavier.

The actual weight of a GLOCK frame is comparable to things like... oh, say, a feather, a block of styrofoam, or a balloon animal.

Well, they both feel pretty light to me (the M&P's frame, when separated from the slide and barrel, is also feather-light), although the M&P is definitely a little bit heavier overall (its magazine is heavier, and maybe its slide, as well). That said, this can't be all that big of a deal because a fully-loaded Glock 17 will jam when limp-wristed while an M&P9 that is nearly empty--and therefore has less total mass--will not. There you go.

For the most part, as long as there's a decent-sized hand at least halfway gripping it, there isn't a problem.

True, and for most people that's good enough (it is for me).

So I don't have a problem with Glocks being made the way they are.

It is what it is, and in this thread and others I've tried to characterize the features and issues of Glocks and other pistols as accurately and fairly as I can. Is the limp-wristing issue merely a myth or rumor? From what I've seen and done myself, no, it is real. Is it a big deal? Not to me, but others may feel differently about it.

If I ever foresee firing it with an improper grip in SD, I'd still say getting one shot is better than nothing (vs pistols with a GRIP SAFETY??) Also, a GLOCK limp-wrist malfunction is one of the easiest malfunctions to clear. Racking will do it. Or if recognized for what it is (and you only have one injured hand at your disposal) a teeny tap to the back of the slide with your chest would remedy the most common problem... failure to completely return to battery.

That is the most common malfunction when Glocks are limp-wristed, although they'll FTE sometimes, too.

Now if I had smaller than average upper body mass and/or strength, I might worry. I'd also probably not like the recoil or grip circumference of the GLOCK to begin with, if I were that small.

Exactly, and I know at least one new shooter who inadvertently jammed a Glock 17 several times during a session. I shot quite a few rounds through the very same gun during the same session, and it performed flawlessly for me. While this person was small and somewhat weak, she probably would have been able to overcome this issue with training, but I don't think it gave her the greatest confidence in the weapon. If enough people have such problems then perhaps Glock will address it, but I don't even think it's on their radar, in the grand scheme of things. I just want people to be aware of such issues. Other pistols have their own weaknesses, and fortunately overall reliability is not one of Glock's.

 

[Philo_Beddoe]

glocks are more prone to limpwristing then other guns

my 17 could be made to malfuction with limpwristing

never had that problem with berreta, m & p, xd, cz, ruger.

 

[REAPER4206969]

even though he had a firm grip on the gun.

Squeezing the hell out of the pistol does nothing to help it. You must lock your wrists and elbows.

 

[REAPER4206969]

I've never been able to limp-wrist an M&P (I've tried), and it weighs only a couple of ounces more than a Glock of comparable size. Weight is almost certainly a factor, but it's hardly the only one.

It is extremely difficult for an experienced shooter to intentionally limpwrist a pistol. It's akin to trying to not ride a bike properly after learning. Also, a "couple of ounces" is a lot in the pistol world. A "couple of ounces " is a whole P-3AT/LCP frame assembly.

 

[Manco]

It is extremely difficult for an experienced shooter to intentionally limpwrist a pistol.

I have to try rather hard even with Glocks, yes, but I've seen others do it without trying. With the proper technique, virtually everybody should be able to shoot a Glock reliably, but it is significantly more prone to jamming when limp-wristed than other pistol designs (which can fail when limp-wristed, too, just very, very rarely as opposed to every other round). Like I said, it's not an issue in most real world applications, but people are free to take it as they will.

It's akin to trying to not ride a bike properly after learning.

Some have expressed concern over being able to fire more than a single round when their hands and arms have been injured, while others will say that if you somehow get into that situation, then you're probably hosed anyway. Different people have different comfort levels with regard to the many factors and possibilities that go into the use of pistols in combat.

Also, a "couple of ounces" is a lot in the pistol world. A "couple of ounces " is a whole P-3AT/LCP frame assembly.

Be that as it may, ammo is not lightweight, and like I said earlier, for example an M&P9 that is nearly empty and weighs less than a fully-loaded Glock 17 will not jam when limp-wristed while the Glock 17 will. Therefore the only manner in which weight alone could be the cause of this discrepancy is not their total weights nor the weights of their frames (and hence their inertia), both of which can be compensated for by ammo, but the weights of their slides. This would seem to make physical sense provided that a heavier slide would acquire momentum more rapidly than a lighter one, but I'm uncertain as to whether the latter is true and I'm not sure whether their slides differ in weight to begin with, as I've never weighed them. It's either that or some other aspect of the design, but neither the total weight nor the weight of the frame (including ammo) fully accounts for the limp-wristing issue of Glocks (especially in 9mm, as heavier-recoiling calibers substantially reduce the frequency of jams due to limp-wristing).

Anyway, this is not to bash Glocks (at least I'm not), as every pistol design has some issues--no machine yet made is perfect in every way, and no single handgun is ideal for everybody.

 

[GLOOB]

I agree it's not just the weight. I have a G21 and a G19. If you ride the slide on the G19, it really likes to hang up with the nose of the bullet partly in the chamber. Whereas with the G21, once a round starts to strip from the mag, it's a done deal at any speed. You can't make it hang up, if you try. Someone else has actually posted a video of this phenomenon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8p2-4v_ypPw

*Edit: had to get out my G21 to verify what I just wrote.

once a round starts to strip from the mag,

Actually, there's no point where I can induce a hang up. Even with a full mag inserted, the force of the recoil spring, alone, will strip and/or chamber a bullet and fully return the slide to battery, no matter how slow I ride it or where I temporarily stop it. This is with a stock G21 with ~1k rounds through it and brass ammo. The result might be different with the aluminum stuff. My G19, on the other hand, can be made to stick just like the one in the video. And just like the Glocks in the limp-wrist videos.

 

[bluecollar]

As anecdotal evidence I can say that when my sons were eleven or twelve they would invariably have malfunctions with my G17 that I knew was absolutely reliable. When they grew up no more problems. I have many range toys such as XD .45, BHP, PX4 Storm, etc., etc., that have never failed to go bang but they have not been shot near as many times as I have shot Glocks over the years. If a gun acts up at the range I can usually tinker with it and get it to run. Like I say, they are range toys and if I have a malfunction at the range with one of the "toys", well, no big deal. Glocks, I have been carrying professionally for nearly twenty years and no Glock has ever failed to go bang in my hand. If a gun does not work for you don't "try" to like it or "try" to get it to run and by all means DO NOT carry it for business purposes. Reliability is not a sometime thing, it is an alltime thing, to loosely paraphrase a famous NFL coach. But I have said it before and I will say it again, if grim death is going to bust through my door in the next second and I had a choice of a number of handguns arrayed before me on a table to defend myself and I could only choose one.....well I would reflexively grab the Glock.

 

[Hangingrock]

No surprises here. Give some people a pencil and they wouldn’t be able to write with it. There is always the 10% no matter what their given to use it becomes a problematic issue.

 

[Manco]

I agree it's not just the weight. I have a G21 and a G19. If you ride the slide on the G19, it really likes to hang up with the nose of the bullet partly in the chamber. Whereas with the G21, once a round starts to strip from the mag, it's a done deal at any speed. You can't make it hang up, if you try. Someone else has actually posted a video of this phenomenon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8p2-4v_ypPw

Interesting, indeed. With all of the seemingly marginal aspects of the G17's operation, I think it's quite remarkable that it's as reliable as it is under normal conditions. One would think that it would be more prone to jamming than other pistols in general as a result, but it's one of the more reliable designs around.

*Edit: had to get out my G21 to verify what I just wrote.

Actually, there's no point where I can induce a hang up. Even with a full mag inserted, the force of the recoil spring, alone, will strip and/or chamber a bullet and fully return the slide to battery, no matter how slow I ride it or where I temporarily stop it. This is with a stock G21 with ~1k rounds through it and brass ammo. The result might be different with the aluminum stuff. My G19, on the other hand, can be made to stick just like the one in the video. And just like the Glocks in the limp-wrist videos.

Unfortunately I don't own an M&P9 to make for a closer comparison with the G17, but for what it's worth I just tried this with my M&P40, and like your G21 it easily strips a cartridge from a completely full magazine and chambers it with spring force alone. I even stopped it twice during the process, rode it all the way down to several millimeters from going into battery, and it still went completely into battery by itself the rest of the way (a more stringent test than we see performed on the G17 in the video).

 

[BeerSleeper]

Also, a "couple of ounces" is a lot in the pistol world.

Anyone else notice, in the limpwristing videos, jams increased in frequency as the magazine approached empty. These lightweight polymer frames can make the guns lighter, but the ammo weight is the same. In these polymer guns, the weight of the ammo in the mag is a much larger percentage of the overall weight of the firearm.

 

[nullcontext]

My Glock 17 is still kinda new, put over 1000 rounds through it with very few issues until recently. I've started getting light primer strikes, for which I clean out around the firing pin, still have an issue. I also noticed it only started happening with my reloads which are a very short COL.

I blame the ammo, I'm going back to my standard COL and 115gr ammo. And yes I'm using a KKM barrel. To date my standard ammo has only had 1 stove pipe due to not enough powder to eject the brass. Factory ammo has all cycled flawlessly.

It seems to like Blazer ammo...

I have no problems with the glock, glock is good.. but I will say I like my 1911's cold metal feel and grip better. (as well as the multiple safety methods) I also tend to get tighter groupings with my 1911 even though it's newer and a larger punch. But, it's heavy, the glock is light weight.

 

[rd2007]

Closing in on 1000 rounds through my G19 without one issue and most of that was with cheap steel cased Monarch ammo.
I have played around shooting it gangster style a few times and that didn't do anything either. I recently moved it to my nightstand (with Speer Gold Dots) because I have the most confidence in it and I am extremely accurate with it as well. My AK is still there too, though, and if I have the time, that's what I'm going for

 

[76shuvlinoff]

If there weren't FTFs and FTEs and malfs of all sorts we wouldn't have clearance drills and rack tap bang.

anything can and will fail

 

[SDShooter]

I'm an autoloader newbie. I've not had any problems with my new 17 after about 500 rds. The salesman took the time to show me exactly how to hold it, and I clean it after each session. I did notice it accumulates quite a bit of dirt, and it takes a while to remove it all. Overall I'm very satisfied.

 

[mgkdrgn]

If you are having the same problem with -multiple- guns, most likely the problem is seen in you bathroom mirror every morning.

Took a 4 days defensive handgun course a few years ago with some friends. We ended up in 3 different groups of 10 students. Of those 10, probably 70% were shooting rental guns from the range .. all Glocks ... which had shot thousands and thousands of rounds.

In my group of 10 there were 8 rentals. Not ONE had any malfunction in the 4 days / 800+ rounds each we put through them.

 

[SwampWolf]

Whether or not Glocks are more susceptible than other pistols to failing via "limp-wristing" I don't know. What I do know is that I would never knowingly rely on any pistol for self-defense that is demonstrably more apt than other pistols to malfunction merely because they weren't being held just so. There are way too many possible situations in self-defense scenarios when it is impossible to grasp a pistol with the firmest of holds and way too many pistols to choose from that are not that prone to jam because they weren't being exactly right.

 

[GLOOB]

There are way too many possible situations in self-defense scenarios when it is impossible to grasp a pistol with the firmest of holds

...such as? I'm trying to imagine "way too many" and can only come up with a few scenarios, all of which belong in a Rambo movie.

 

[RevDerb]

I have owned multiple Glock 17, 19, 23, 26, 27, 30 & 36's. Currently own G26 & G19. I have NEVER experience a single malfunction with any of them. ymmv

 

[GLOOB]

Wow, I might have to retract my statement about my G19 hanging up like in that vid. Try as I may, I can no longer make that happen. It still feels like there's a bit of a traffic jam at a certain point, compared to my G21. But it doesn't hang up.

I actually switched to dropping the slide full force when loading it, ever since the very first session where I noticed the "problem." So somewhere in the interim, it musta smoothed itself out. I'm guessing it was either related to the tension of brand new mag-springs, or maybe a peculiar batch of ammo.

 

[huduguru]

I never even knew about Glock limp wristing tendencies until
I saw a few internet commandos on youtube demonstrating it by holding
it with his middle finger and thumb.

In my academy class of around 55 officers, most of our class
chose the G17 or G19 as the primary duty weapon. We had a few
women shooting Glocks and they never had any issues with limp
wrist malfunctions. As far as I can remember, the Glocks never
had any issues, while the few S&W 5900 series(supposedly the least likely to malfunction from limp wrist jams) in our class had parts breakage and malfunction problems.

My personal G17 I tried to limp wrist with weak Monarch ammo and I
couldn't do it. All I can say is, if you are having limp wrist malfunctions
with a Glock, you need to lift some weights....

 

[Pizzagunner]

Getting wounded in the arms is so implausible it belongs in a Rambo movie? Some of the most common wounds in a shooting are to the upper extremities because the gun is the threat and the arms are being used in front of the COM to point the gun towards other threats. If it takes Rambo to envision having your grip on a handgun compromised by direct structural wounds, blood loss, blood slicking, or nerve damage, you aren't very imaginative.

I can only guess there are no depths one will not plumb to excuse a flaw in their favorite if Rambo has to thrown about in all seriousness.

 

[GLOOB]

delete

 

[GLOOB]

I can only guess there are no depths one will not plumb to excuse a flaw in their favorite

Uhh, sure. Like posting vids of an unusual G17 jam and providing first person account of the same thing happening to mine?

Getting wounded in the arm isn't the issue. Having the ability to aim and pull the trigger multiple times in an effective manner in the absence of even a modest ability of controlling the gun is what I have a hard time to imagine.

Over three movies, even Rambo doesn't get himself into one of those situations.

The guys who do the vids, they use thumb and forefinger and zero wrist or arm tension. Zero might even be an overstatement. Because it certainly seems like a learned skill that is difficult for most people to duplicate. Then, as soon as the shot goes off, their arm suddenly works again. Thus, the gun doesn't go flying out of their grip, and they can actually keep the gun pointed downrange in a reasonably safe manner. If YOUR arm was really in that kind of shape, there'd be no followup shot. At least, not in the same general direction.

So if the ability to hold a gun with 2 fingers, perpendicular to your arm, while firing multiple shots where you magically lose all strength only at the instant the hammer falls is important to you, then that's fine with me. (I wonder if you'd actually practice shooting like this?!) But you'll have to excuse me if that ability doesn't make my list of concerns.

So do you ever worry that your thumb could be injured, leaving you no way to remove the manual safety on your non-Glock? Many of us read a story where this, indeed, occurred to a police officer in a life-and-death situation. Luckily his partner in training was there to take the safety off for him. That doesn't prompt me to decide that any gun with a manual safety is automatically inferior to a GLOCK.