Glock 19 CCW?

[JJ Alabama]

Hey yall. Been lurking for over a year but decided to make an account to ask something.

I'd like to get a Glock 19 for concealed carry, transitioning from a full size 1911. I love the size, weight, and especially simplicity of the Glock. Feels great in my hand. Anyway, I've read and watched about how the Glock 9mm's are specifically prone to "limp-wrist" malfunctions because of how light it is (I know all pistols can limp wrist, but the Glock is very light). As in, if you're not holding it right, it'll short stroke. I've shot semi-automatics for years, so under normal operations this wouldn't be a concern for me. I know for most experienced shooters it's probably very hard to get it to jam that way. Shooting a friend's Glock 21 I was able to get it to do it, trying very hard to see it for myself, by holding the gun very loosely, and even then it wouldn't do it but once or twice a magazine.

But...

Is this acceptable for a CCW? What if I'm injured, pushed on the ground, don't get a good grip on the draw?

Please help alleviate these concerns so I can get this otherwise wonderful pistol without doubts

 

[Sam1911]

I think if you train enough and practice enough with your gun you'll get a very good sense of what it will and won't do, and when it might malfunction. (And more importantly, how consistently it works.)

We can tell you not to worry about limp-wristing, but you should be out on the range putting yourself and your gun through enough realistic and demanding workouts that you know exactly what you, and it, will do under any circumstances.

(Hint: I've never yet met an IDPA or USPSA competitor, or a serious defensive shooting training practitioner who expressed any concern at all that his/her Glock was susceptible to limp-wristing. They'd done the work to prove their gun's worth as they built up their own skills.)

 

[kayak-man]

I agree with Sam.

I think its good that you're thinking down those lines and "war-gaming" a little bit, but I also think that unless you get out there and try it out, all you've got are a handful of "if"s without the "then"s that go along with them. I would definitely recommend seeking some good training, and learning how to fix the problem of your gun short stroking, before deciding if its a big deal with the GLOCK.

Like I said, I think its good your doing your homework, and starting to get a feel for war-gaming. I'm assuming your in Alabama. If you feel comfortable disclosing a little more of your location, I'm sure someone on here can point you towards some pretty darn good training.

 

[Hometeached1]

Good for you thinking ahead, not just getting the Glock because it's "cool".

They can be limp wristed if you have a very weak grip, but a 1911 grip safety can also not be engaged with a weak grip as well.

It mostly comes down to what you have the most confidence in and can shoot well with.

 

[tarosean]

There are a lot of "What Ifs" you could probably go on for hours conjuring up scenarios.

I've attempted to carry my 19 twice. Going from a 1911 IWB to a G19 IWB, it felt way to thick and uncomfortable for me. Tried it OWB it a different position (from 3 to 4 o clock) and it was much better, but still not going to swap platforms anytime soon. Not for fear of "ifs" though.

 

[dprice3844444]

http://ccwbreakaways.com/ pants/shorts
http://smartcarry.com/ hangs above the boys
here is 2 different carry solutions that may solve your carry issues.if you check nrastores.org,you will find vests,other clothing, that are also setup for ccw with internal pockets.
gets the weight off hips and conceals item from view.if you haven't bought g19 yet,find a g19c,built in compensator.tighter follow up shots.

 

[BSA1]

Is this acceptable for a CCW? What if I'm injured, pushed on the ground, don't get a good grip on the draw?

These are the advantages of a revolver over a semi-auto.

 

[JJ Alabama]

http://ccwbreakaways.com/ pants/shorts
http://smartcarry.com/ hangs above the boys
here is 2 different carry solutions that may solve your carry issues.if you check nrastores.org,you will find vests,other clothing, that are also setup for ccw with internal pockets.
gets the weight off hips and conceals item from view.if you haven't bought g19 yet,find a g19c,built in compensator.tighter follow up shots.

It's not an issue of how I carry my 1911 that makes me want to switch. I've shot a Glock 19, and I like it's lower bore axis, lighter weight, higher capacity, and simplicity of design and operation. If my worry about limp wrist can be abated, which the points already made here are doing a good job, I'll be heading to the gun shop to pick up a G19 ASAP.


Also not interested in switching to a revolver for similar reasons I want to switch from the 1911.

 

[Steve C]

I have owned my Glock 19 for 25 years now and have not had any issues with it jamming from limp wristing for me.

I had a friend that had a Tokerov 9mm that he was having problems with. He would get jamming on every other shot, I'd shoot it and couldn't get it to jam. He tried my Beretta 92 and got it to jam on a handgun that I never had a jam with. Told him to hold the gun tighter and his issues went away.

If you have been shooting a .45 and regularly hang onto you guns with a normal firm grip you will not have a problem.

 

[Theohazard]

I've read and watched about how the Glock 9mm's are specifically prone to "limp-wrist" malfunctions because of how light it is (I know all pistols can limp wrist, but the Glock is very light). As in, if you're not holding it right, it'll short stroke.

It's actually extremely difficult to induce a stoppage in a Glock 19 from limp-wristing. You have to use a grip that is extraordinarily bad; one that you'd never actually use in real life no matter how injured you were.

My friend and I took my Glock 19 Gen 3 and tried to induce a limp-wrist stoppage; we each shot it while holding it as loosely as we could in a two-handed grip and it still functioned fine. So then we each shot it using a loose one-handed grip and it still functioned fine. So then we each held it in a loose single-hand weak-hand grip and it still functioned fine. We were each holding the gun as loosely as we could with one hand while bending our elbow and keeping it limp, and the Glock 19 still functioned fine for both of us.

Finally I gripped it by moving my hand way down on the grip (away from the beavertail area) and holding it in the loosest one-handed grip I could manage. This, combined with an awkwardly bent elbow, finally allowed the gun to move enough to induce a stoppage.

This test made it pretty clear to me that in order to cause a limp-wrist stoppage in a Glock 19, you really need to be trying very hard and using the worst, loosest grip possible.

 

[Tirod]

Injured, pushed to the ground, or not getting a good grip goes more to being aware of the threat in the first place. Those are all close contact events where bare hand combatives would be the preferred choice to create distance and then draw.

At which point it's questionable how that might work out - are they armed, and how did they not shoot first?

There's a bag of snakes scenario for which there is no answer. The choice of gun carried isn't going to make much difference, at least no one has come up with the clearly definitive answer. If anything, you could say that relatively lightly trained people who don't shoot much are considered the primary users of a DA action - Police - who previously were almost universally issued pistols, then the Glock, which was designed to deliberately use the same manual of arms.

An experienced 1911 user is going to have to dumb it down - no safety swipes, and really see the need for carry all the extra ammo. Since the statistics show most encounters are within three seconds on presentation of deadly force, three feet, and less than three shots, it comes down to using whatever gun you like with sufficient power and simply not walking into the situation all brain dead and clueless.

Pistol fights are held every year, world wide, the choice of gun rarely has an effect on the outcome, awareness does. I suppose that is a horrible generalization, but plenty of cops use smaller automatics in Europe, and in Mexico the large revolver is king. All in all, nobody can point to any one gun and say "This it the top dog king of the hill best combat gun ever." Despite the disciples of JMB citing gospel.

Buy it and try it out. I've come back around from learning to shoot with the 1911 in the service, to the Glock 19, and lately sold it for a SIG P938. Some can carry larger heavier autos, as time and age wear you down, the smaller autos still do the job. It's all about threes anyway.

 

[JJ Alabama]

They can be limp wristed if you have a very weak grip, but a 1911 grip safety can also not be engaged with a weak grip as well.

Hm... I never thought about that. I suppose so, with a really low or weak grip.

 

[CountGlockulla]

I made the switch about 2 years ago and haven't looked back. The G19 is one of the great all time carry guns. This one has 4525 rounds through it w/ only 2 FTFs due to out of spec reloads.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

I do somewhat agree with the premise that you may not be able to attain or achieve a proper grip if knocked down or injured and that you don't want a pistol susceptible to "limp-wristing." But in the case of the Glock 19, based on long experience with my own, I don't think this will be a problem. I have purposely held it as loosely as possible while still not flying out of my hand, as well as a fair amount of weak-hand (my left as I'm right-handed) shooting practice. It has never had a stoppage of this type.

 

[JJ Alabama]

I do somewhat agree with the premise that you may not be able to attain or achieve a proper grip if knocked down or injured and that you don't want a pistol susceptible to "limp-wristing." But in the case of the Glock 19, based on long experience with my own, I don't think this will be a problem. I have purposely held it as loosely as possible while still not flying out of my hand, as well as a fair amount of weak-hand (my left as I'm right-handed) shooting practice. It has never had a stoppage of this type.

I've managed to induce the limp wrist jam a couple of times per magazine with a friend's Glock 21. It's very hard to induce and I can only do it while trying to do so.

The 9mm Glocks, however, are supposedly a bit more prone to it? I'm betting I'd be able to get a 19 to do it if I tried. Should the pistol be unable to do this (even if it were as hard to induce as with the 21) to trust it?

 

[GLOOB]

The 9mm Glocks, however, are supposedly a bit more prone to it?

Yes. And the subcompact is one of the worst offenders, IMO.

The Glock frame only weighs a few ounces, so of course it can be limpwristed, if you try. But all the weight you would ever need to keep most Glocks from limpwristing - as long as you are using strong enough ammo - is the weight of your hand on the gun. Injured or weak, it doesn't matter. It takes coordinated EFFORT to make most of my Glocks jam, as in actively jerking my hand back as I fire. And I still have never been able to stop my G21, at all.

Now, you take your brand new Gen4 9mm with weak WackyWorld ammo, and it might be a different story. Also, some people have lighter hands and wrist. I have only gen 3's, and the only one out of those I believe has a potential limpwrist issue is the subcompact G26 with a new/fresh spring. Other than that one, I'm confident that if I can get enough grip on a Glock to aim and pull the trigger, and the ammo isn't weak, the gun is going to cycle.

So if you want to lug around an extra 8 oz that you already have in your hand, go ahead and get a steel frame pistol.

 

[JJ Alabama]

Yes. And the subcompact is one of the worst offenders, IMO.

The Glock frame only weighs a few ounces, so of course it can be limpwristed, if you try. But all the weight you would ever need to keep most Glocks from limpwristing - as long as you are using strong enough ammo - is the weight of your hand on the gun. Injured or weak, it doesn't matter. It takes coordinated EFFORT to make most of my Glocks jam, as in actively jerking my hand back as I fire. And I still have never been able to stop my G21, at all.

Now, you take your brand new Gen4 9mm with weak WackyWorld ammo, and it might be a different story. Also, some people have lighter hands and wrist. I have only gen 3's, and the only one out of those I believe has a potential limpwrist issue is the subcompact G26 with a new/fresh spring. Other than that one, I'm confident that if I can get enough grip on a Glock to aim and pull the trigger, and the ammo isn't weak, the gun is going to cycle.

So if you want to lug around an extra 8 oz that you already have in your hand, go ahead and get a steel frame pistol.

Not too excited about the prospect of continuing to carry that extra 8 ounces. The Glock 19 has everything I want in my new handgun, except the concern about limp wristing. The only other on my consideration table is the HK USP 9, but I don't know how much better that would be, plus I don't like the way they feel in my hand.

 

[Warp]

Hey yall. Been lurking for over a year but decided to make an account to ask something.

I'd like to get a Glock 19 for concealed carry, transitioning from a full size 1911. I love the size, weight, and especially simplicity of the Glock. Feels great in my hand. Anyway, I've read and watched about how the Glock 9mm's are specifically prone to "limp-wrist" malfunctions because of how light it is (I know all pistols can limp wrist, but the Glock is very light). As in, if you're not holding it right, it'll short stroke. I've shot semi-automatics for years, so under normal operations this wouldn't be a concern for me. I know for most experienced shooters it's probably very hard to get it to jam that way. Shooting a friend's Glock 21 I was able to get it to do it, trying very hard to see it for myself, by holding the gun very loosely, and even then it wouldn't do it but once or twice a magazine.

But...

Is this acceptable for a CCW? What if I'm injured, pushed on the ground, don't get a good grip on the draw?

Please help alleviate these concerns so I can get this otherwise wonderful pistol without doubts

That is a bunch of you-know-what.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Btn8kr1jgUA


A Glock 19 is an outstanding carry gun. So is a Glock 26

 

[JJ Alabama]

That is a bunch of you-know-what.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Btn8kr1jgUA


A Glock 19 is an outstanding carry gun. So is a Glock 26

The video is private. And no, I don't think it's a bunch of you-know-what. It's been pretty well demonstrated. Yes, all semi-auto pistols can do it, but Glocks, with their very light frames, are typically more prone to it.

If I were completely convinced that this makes it an unsuitable self defense weapon, I wouldn't be asking for the opinions of my fellow gun owners who may have a take on the subject that I haven't thought of yet. In fact, that's already happened. There's still some doubts, but they're quickly fading away the more information I'm getting. I'm probably just being over-worrisome, but I'd like a little assurance that it's not something to keep me from getting this fine weapon.

 

[Theohazard]

The Glock 19 has everything I want in my new handgun, except the concern about limp wristing.

There's really no concern about limp-wristing. In my experience, there are only two ways to limp-wrist a Glock 19: 1) If the shooter is weak and has no idea how to hold a handgun, or 2) If you're trying to limp-wrist it.

And number 2 is pretty hard to do. In post #10 I described how difficult it was for me to limp-wrist my Glock 19.

 

[Warp]

The video is private. And no, I don't think it's a bunch of you-know-what. It's been pretty well demonstrated. Yes, all semi-auto pistols can do it, but Glocks, with their very light frames, are typically more prone to it.

If I were completely convinced that this makes it an unsuitable self defense weapon, I wouldn't be asking for the opinions of my fellow gun owners who may have a take on the subject that I haven't thought of yet. In fact, that's already happened. There's still some doubts, but they're quickly fading away the more information I'm getting. I'm probably just being over-worrisome, but I'd like a little assurance that it's not something to keep me from getting this fine weapon.

I think we have different definitions of well documented.

But anyway, add this to your documentation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Btn8kr1jgUA

 

[JR24]

I wonder, considering how many LEOs carry Glocks and that they are in a profession that is more likely to get them a) in a gunfight and therefore b) wounded and still need to fight.

Is limpwristing Glocks due to injury something that any of our LEOs on here are/were/have been worried about?

Or is this just a super small theoretical nitpicky issue that us gun forum folks like to theorize about?

I honestly don't know.

 

[Tirod]

I bought my first gen Glock 19 precisely because I did want to CCW it. I wasn't successful trying to carry a Beretta 92SF in that way.

During all the years of owning it, shooting it, and seeing Glocks issued for decades, the Police don't make an issue of it being easily limp wristed. And the Glocks were specifically chosen over others because female officers had to be able to use them, too.

What those officers do get is training in confrontations and how to handle aggressive individuals. Again, I have to ask, just how does someone get injured or knocked down where shooting with the off hand or an injured one is a major consideration?

There's something wrong in emphazing that over a realistic appreciation of what actually happens in the majority of civilian encounters. Most of the time the aggressor has been clearly exhibiting they are not friendly.

At worst, they knock you on the head from behind, or just shoot you in the back. It then goes to What Were You Doing There?

Major violations of common sense have to occur first. And again, to be injured or knocked down is to be within striking range of another human. Obsessing about whether you can draw or pull the trigger injured should be set aside, and consideration in improving street tactics and being more aware is the better answer.

I didn't have any major problems with the Glock 19, it was a matter of preference. It's not a small gun, it's a slightly reduced duty firearm that is issued to LEO's. It's not currently a size preferred for distinctly CCW use, and overall, it has no record of being any problem in that area functionally. It's just not the smallest lightest out there.

I sold it because the size and shape were larger than I could conceal easily, the capacity wasn't needed, and the trigger was one I no longer felt comfortable with due to my age. I went back to a compact 1911, because that was my area of largest experience, and I was already well versed in carry of a single action with safety. I like the idea I won't be able to pull of a negligent discharge unholstering the gun until the safety is off, which I can't push off until it's out and going up. Reholstering, the safety is already back on, which means the holster snagging the trigger isn't going to discharge it.

If the Glock has any negative, it's right there - Glock mandates a stiff lipped holster that shields the trigger at all times, and can't break down or distort to manipulate it. Which is one area where ND's are common when they occur. Another is having the finger on the trigger during the draw, where the other major proportion comes from.

The G19 is a good gun, but my habits and training late in life aren't accommodating it as well as a compact 1911 style firearm - and the P938 doesn't have a grip safety, either. That little item was a Cavalry Department add on for field use horseback - something ol' Browning was told to include.

So, it training and experience are 1911 based, and limp wristing a concern, then get a 1911 platform pistol that conforms to CCW better with no grip safety.

 

[Warp]

At worst, they knock you on the head from behind, or just shoot you in the back. It then goes to What Were You Doing There?

Crap happens everywhere all the time.

Sure, you can reduce your chances of being attacked by where you go and when you go there...but can you guarantee it? Hell no.

If it were that simple we wouldn't even need to bother owning, let alone carrying, guns, because we would simply avoid being attacked. Problem solved right?

Well, it isn't that easy.

 

[JJ Alabama]

Crap happens everywhere all the time.

Sure, you can reduce your chances of being attacked by where you go and when you go there...but can you guarantee it? Hell no.

If it were that simple we wouldn't even need to bother owning, let alone carrying, guns, because we would simply avoid being attacked. Problem solved right?

Well, it isn't that easy.

He's got a point. We carry cause we're expecting the worst scenario, not the best. We can't know what's gonna happen, so it's probably best to prepare as much as possible, within reason, obviously.

That said, with the Glock 21 I shot, the way I had to hold it to limp wrist it was so bizzare that I can't imagine being able to hold it like that on accident. Starting to be convinced I'll be fine with the 9mm G19.