Do I Want A 10mm?
- Thread starter HMMurdock
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So basically you want a .45?
I'd say just get a 10mm if you're gonna be out in the woods and shooting at any kind of distance but you pretty much said you have a rifle for that....... so get a .45?
I consider the 10mm as bottom of the barrel for any kind of big-game handgun hunting.
I'd say just get a 10mm if you're gonna be out in the woods and shooting at any kind of distance but you pretty much said you have a rifle for that....... so get a .45?
I consider the 10mm as bottom of the barrel for any kind of big-game handgun hunting.
ugaarguy
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Would you care to qualify your statement as to why Glock makes such a vastly superior firearm in 10mm Auto? Perhaps you like foreign made guns, with oversized grips, cheap plastic sights, and mushy triggers. I find most 10mm 1911s to be superior to 10mm Glocks in fit, finish, parts quality (particularly sights), ergonomics, and trigger pull.
raskolnikov_22
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For woods I'd like a 10mm or .357 Sig over .45, if it had to be an auto.
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Gryffydd
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1. Adequate Springs
2. Shok-Buffs.
wally
Member
And if you do reload, 10mm pistols usually seem to launch the brass into near earth orbit. I rarely lose more than 5% of my brass when shooting .45ACP and often come back with more than I shot, With 10mm I'm doing good to find 60% of it
--wally.
mljdeckard
Member
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that a 10mm from STI is going to be built to handle the punishment just fine.
2ndamd
Member
I love the 10mm!
But, given the stockpile of ammo you have?
I'd go with the 45 for now and get a Glock 20 sometime later this year.
But, given the stockpile of ammo you have?
I'd go with the 45 for now and get a Glock 20 sometime later this year.
doc2rn
Member
rask beat me to it but I like my .357 sig for the woods. 13+1 says it all G32!
ugaarguy,
Everything you say is true, but when it comes time to put bullets in the target there is very little difference in group size between my Glock 20 and the 5 1911's I own.
Yes I do love the 1911 platform, but feel the Glock is a better outdoors gun becuse it is much lighter and holds 2X as many rounds. I feel it is a more reliable gun, especially in the dirt and dust encountered outdoors. The 1911's perform best in the caliber it was designed for, the 45 ACP. A lot of the 1911's have had problems when given a steady diet of the heavier 10mm loads. The Glock and now discontinued S&W 1006 guns are the only 2 that have proven they can stand up to a lot of the heavier loads. I guess I'm a bit too traditional, but a 1911 in any other caliber just does not seem right as well.
I'm not talking about a hunting pistol. For accuracy at distance I much prefer a rifle but if forced to use a handgun I would go straight to a revolver. For self defense against 2 or 4 legged predators in the outdoors it is hard to beat a Glock 20.
Everything you say is true, but when it comes time to put bullets in the target there is very little difference in group size between my Glock 20 and the 5 1911's I own.
Yes I do love the 1911 platform, but feel the Glock is a better outdoors gun becuse it is much lighter and holds 2X as many rounds. I feel it is a more reliable gun, especially in the dirt and dust encountered outdoors. The 1911's perform best in the caliber it was designed for, the 45 ACP. A lot of the 1911's have had problems when given a steady diet of the heavier 10mm loads. The Glock and now discontinued S&W 1006 guns are the only 2 that have proven they can stand up to a lot of the heavier loads. I guess I'm a bit too traditional, but a 1911 in any other caliber just does not seem right as well.
I'm not talking about a hunting pistol. For accuracy at distance I much prefer a rifle but if forced to use a handgun I would go straight to a revolver. For self defense against 2 or 4 legged predators in the outdoors it is hard to beat a Glock 20.
Gungle George
Member
I own .38 Supers, .45 ACP in 1911 Colt's and Kimber's. I just picked up a Delta Elite, all I can say is WOW
. Get one, you won't regret it!
I load for everything I have so ammo is not an issue. I'm just strting at the base line loading data and will work up to a load that works well. Recoil isn't an issue at all. I'll eventually put a comp on as well and work on the trigger.
Get one, they are a lot of fun to shoot!!
Cheers,
Gungle George
. Get one, you won't regret it!I load for everything I have so ammo is not an issue. I'm just strting at the base line loading data and will work up to a load that works well. Recoil isn't an issue at all. I'll eventually put a comp on as well and work on the trigger.
Get one, they are a lot of fun to shoot!!
Cheers,
Gungle George
bestseller92
Member
The Glock 20 is a great woods gun.
raskolnikov_22
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Agreed. If I were buying the gun just for outdoor use, I would probably go for the Glock (well, I wouldn't because I have a Mountain Gun
). I don't own any Glocks, but my RZ-10 is pretty hefty.Yes
As much as I don't like it and I will never buy one, the Glock 20 is the 10 mm Auto of choice for the woods at the moment.
Practical, light enough, accurate, good ergonomics and 15+1 capacity.
It can digest any 10 mm load out there, including "nuclear" ones without any problem. Excellent Customer Service.
You can even buy a 6" aftermarket barrel for it.
I cannot wait for some other respectable manufacturer to step into this not so small niche (wood defense autoloader) with an all-metal DA/SA double stack pistol....SIG where are you???
As much as I don't like it and I will never buy one, the Glock 20 is the 10 mm Auto of choice for the woods at the moment.
Practical, light enough, accurate, good ergonomics and 15+1 capacity.
It can digest any 10 mm load out there, including "nuclear" ones without any problem. Excellent Customer Service.
You can even buy a 6" aftermarket barrel for it.
I cannot wait for some other respectable manufacturer to step into this not so small niche (wood defense autoloader) with an all-metal DA/SA double stack pistol....SIG where are you???
IdahoLT1
Member
If you reload or dont mind spending ~$.15 more per round, then go with the 10mm. If not go with the 45.
The 10mm will also give you the option of hunting in the future, depending on your states requirments. Idaho doesnt have a minimum caliber for hunting with either rifles or pistols. They just require it be a center fire. Theres no law on min. barrel lengths either.
The EAA Witness match in 10mm has about the same grip size as a Beretta 92. And its not blocky feeling like the G20. But, mine isnt as reliable as my S&W 1006, so i carry it hunting/backpacking/camping instead. The 1006 is just as accurate as the Witness in my hands, but only lacks the capacity.
For woods defense, i go with Doubletap's 200gr hardcast. It will stop anything in this state(short of a grizzly) dead in its tracks. For humans, i really like Winchester silver tips. They are really the only decent factory load in 10mm that isnt a a short hair faster than 40S&W. Most factory loads of 10mm are ~50fps quicker than 40S&W. The silvertips are 175gr. and i belive they are around the 1350fps mark.
It doesnt have the energy that Buffalo bore and Double tap offer for their 10mm. DT and BB will use speer gold dots for some of their loads, but im not sure if they test the expansion. The .400 cal bullets they use might only be rated at 40S&W velocities, so the bullets might not expand properly. I think this is where the Winchester silver tips shine because they test expansion at the factory.
As far as reloading, if you buy bulk 10mm brass and get a good deal, you might spend $.02 or $.03 more per round reloading than you would reload a 40S&W.
The 10mm will also give you the option of hunting in the future, depending on your states requirments. Idaho doesnt have a minimum caliber for hunting with either rifles or pistols. They just require it be a center fire. Theres no law on min. barrel lengths either.
The EAA Witness match in 10mm has about the same grip size as a Beretta 92. And its not blocky feeling like the G20. But, mine isnt as reliable as my S&W 1006, so i carry it hunting/backpacking/camping instead. The 1006 is just as accurate as the Witness in my hands, but only lacks the capacity.
For woods defense, i go with Doubletap's 200gr hardcast. It will stop anything in this state(short of a grizzly) dead in its tracks. For humans, i really like Winchester silver tips. They are really the only decent factory load in 10mm that isnt a a short hair faster than 40S&W. Most factory loads of 10mm are ~50fps quicker than 40S&W. The silvertips are 175gr. and i belive they are around the 1350fps mark.
It doesnt have the energy that Buffalo bore and Double tap offer for their 10mm. DT and BB will use speer gold dots for some of their loads, but im not sure if they test the expansion. The .400 cal bullets they use might only be rated at 40S&W velocities, so the bullets might not expand properly. I think this is where the Winchester silver tips shine because they test expansion at the factory.
As far as reloading, if you buy bulk 10mm brass and get a good deal, you might spend $.02 or $.03 more per round reloading than you would reload a 40S&W.
IdahoLT1
Member
Saturno, S&W made some 2 decades ago. The S&W 1000 series, ARE the gold standard for semi auto pistols chambered in 10mm. They will habdle anything you shove through it and have the frame to take the punishing. They are tanks. The only problem is finding them, as they have been discontinued for some time.
I got a steal on mine. I bought it from a sheriff up near Lewiston, Idaho. He bought it originaly in '94 and maybe put 300 rds through it. It came with 6 factory mags(~$40 ea now) and Hogue aftermarket grips, all for $500.
Its an awesome shooter. It is DA/SA with night sights that still work and an adjustable rear sight.
I got a steal on mine. I bought it from a sheriff up near Lewiston, Idaho. He bought it originaly in '94 and maybe put 300 rds through it. It came with 6 factory mags(~$40 ea now) and Hogue aftermarket grips, all for $500.
Its an awesome shooter. It is DA/SA with night sights that still work and an adjustable rear sight.
IdahoLT1
Member
As far as the 10mm vs. 357 debate, they are basically equal with a slight edge to the 10mm, capacity aside. Double tap makes 10mm loads that have more energy than the 357 and Buffalo bore makes 357 loads that have more energy than the 10mm.
Lets say a 180gr 357 load has the same velocity as a 180gr 10mm load. Alot of people would say they have equal energy and thus are at a stale mate. But they are forgeting the diameter. If a 10mm bullet is moving the same speed as a 357 round and they both weigh the same, the 10mm is still going to create a larger entrance wound and wound cavity as its diameter is .043" larger.
Lets say a 180gr 357 load has the same velocity as a 180gr 10mm load. Alot of people would say they have equal energy and thus are at a stale mate. But they are forgeting the diameter. If a 10mm bullet is moving the same speed as a 357 round and they both weigh the same, the 10mm is still going to create a larger entrance wound and wound cavity as its diameter is .043" larger.
Gryffydd
Member
But neither one makes a 10mm that beats BB's .357. Again it's so close it's not worth worrying about the difference in effectiveness.
And you're forgetting SD, which means the .357 will penetrate better. So I guess you just take your pick on what you want.
raskolnikov_22
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There was/is a plan detailed on the Sigforum to convert some stainless P220s to 10mm. Cost: $1,000 (plus Sig). Idiotic. 10mm just ain't worth it.
And if a 1911 has problems holding up to 10mm ammo, I see no reason why a Sig would do any better.
IdahoLt1
Yes, yes I know about the S&W and I'm on the prowl for one...I'm ok with having only 9 +1 capacity......I cannot find any here in WA, regardless of price.
I would LOVE to buy a 1006 at reasonable price.
I was referring to a new product currently in production...there is no DA/SA all metal double stack (or even single stack) full SAAMI spec capable 10 mm Auto in the market...waiting for the Fortis.
My 44 Mag 8 3/8" revolver is my wood gun at the moment....I may venture occasionally with my 40 S&W autoloader with the toughest Double Tap or Buffalo Bore ammo I can find but it would make me very nervous....
Yes, yes I know about the S&W and I'm on the prowl for one...I'm ok with having only 9 +1 capacity......I cannot find any here in WA, regardless of price.
I would LOVE to buy a 1006 at reasonable price.
I was referring to a new product currently in production...there is no DA/SA all metal double stack (or even single stack) full SAAMI spec capable 10 mm Auto in the market...waiting for the Fortis.
My 44 Mag 8 3/8" revolver is my wood gun at the moment....I may venture occasionally with my 40 S&W autoloader with the toughest Double Tap or Buffalo Bore ammo I can find but it would make me very nervous....
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ReloaderFred
Member
HMMurdock asked:
"Any reliability issues with your .45 or 10mm Colts?"
No, I don't have any feeding issues with any of my Colts. I'm not generally a Colt person, but those five do feed like they should and are easy to shoot accurately. I own other handguns that I like better, but the original question was specific to Colt 1911 pistols.
Hope this helps.
Fred
"Any reliability issues with your .45 or 10mm Colts?"
No, I don't have any feeding issues with any of my Colts. I'm not generally a Colt person, but those five do feed like they should and are easy to shoot accurately. I own other handguns that I like better, but the original question was specific to Colt 1911 pistols.
Hope this helps.
Fred
Polar Express
Member
Short answer: .45
Long answer: see below (I think it's a more complete answer)
This thread caught my eye for a couple reasons: My dad used to talk a lot about the 10mm, and even bought a Glock chambered in such; and, I like the woods, so having a proper critter gun strapped to your leg is a nice thing think about.
I realize the OP'er asked the question of .45 vs. 10, and I certainly don't want to hijack a thread, but I was happy to read that some had offered the idea of other calibers.
My dad stopped talking about 10mm and sold his Glock when the .357 Sig came out. (my dad is not all-knowing, but I respect his reasoning about ballistics)
With regards to that link to the 'Perfect 10', wow, what a nice piece. But that's a lot of price for that too.
I'm also a giant .45 ACP/1911 nut. I love them. They have done a great job serving my country on battlefields, and ranges for a long time. But, critters don't respond the same way people do when they get hit with a bullet, and that's important to consider. If we're limiting the discussion to auto-loaders that's also important to know. If we're discussing ammo availability and cost, then IMHO the .45 wins, hands down. If you're looking for performance, and not volume, then the debate opens up a lot more. Since penetration is important when considering large, furry critters, then some other rounds that should belong in this debate are, but not limited too: .357 Sig, .357 Mag, 5.7 x 28mm.
I currently own the tiny Glock in .357 sig (33?), and I can't stand the darn thing. Its a fine made product, I just hate how it feels, but I didn't like it when I bought it. I got it 'cuz it's small, and packs a punch and holds 10+1 rounds. To me, it's not a 'shooter', it's a 'defender'. I'm willing to have harder to find ammo, that I can't reload, for 'defenders', but not for shooters.
So, if it's between ONLY those two calibers, and for defense then get the 10. If you want a shooter, get the .45.
But, if you want to have a gun you can put in 'shooter' rounds and practice, and get familiar with your gun, then swap out the bbl, and load 'defender' rounds, then consider a gun that can swap barrels, and rotate between the .40S&W and the .357Sig.
If all calibers are considered, and you don't really care about shooting, and want defense only, in an auto-loader format, consider that 5.7x28, I'll bet it penetrates better than any of them.
I'm getting tooled up to reload, and I'm drooling over that FiveseveN. But I don't plan on reloading for that gun. I'm ready to just accept that shooting that gun is going to cost full cartridges. I also don't plan to reload for the .357 Sig, but that may change.
But after all my emotional biases, opinions and ramblings, you want a particular gun, then by all means, buy that gun!
Good luck with your choice,
PE
Long answer: see below (I think it's a more complete answer)
This thread caught my eye for a couple reasons: My dad used to talk a lot about the 10mm, and even bought a Glock chambered in such; and, I like the woods, so having a proper critter gun strapped to your leg is a nice thing think about.
I realize the OP'er asked the question of .45 vs. 10, and I certainly don't want to hijack a thread, but I was happy to read that some had offered the idea of other calibers.
My dad stopped talking about 10mm and sold his Glock when the .357 Sig came out. (my dad is not all-knowing, but I respect his reasoning about ballistics)
With regards to that link to the 'Perfect 10', wow, what a nice piece. But that's a lot of price for that too.
I'm also a giant .45 ACP/1911 nut. I love them. They have done a great job serving my country on battlefields, and ranges for a long time. But, critters don't respond the same way people do when they get hit with a bullet, and that's important to consider. If we're limiting the discussion to auto-loaders that's also important to know. If we're discussing ammo availability and cost, then IMHO the .45 wins, hands down. If you're looking for performance, and not volume, then the debate opens up a lot more. Since penetration is important when considering large, furry critters, then some other rounds that should belong in this debate are, but not limited too: .357 Sig, .357 Mag, 5.7 x 28mm.
I currently own the tiny Glock in .357 sig (33?), and I can't stand the darn thing. Its a fine made product, I just hate how it feels, but I didn't like it when I bought it. I got it 'cuz it's small, and packs a punch and holds 10+1 rounds. To me, it's not a 'shooter', it's a 'defender'. I'm willing to have harder to find ammo, that I can't reload, for 'defenders', but not for shooters.
So, if it's between ONLY those two calibers, and for defense then get the 10. If you want a shooter, get the .45.
But, if you want to have a gun you can put in 'shooter' rounds and practice, and get familiar with your gun, then swap out the bbl, and load 'defender' rounds, then consider a gun that can swap barrels, and rotate between the .40S&W and the .357Sig.
If all calibers are considered, and you don't really care about shooting, and want defense only, in an auto-loader format, consider that 5.7x28, I'll bet it penetrates better than any of them.
I'm getting tooled up to reload, and I'm drooling over that FiveseveN.
But I don't plan on reloading for that gun. I'm ready to just accept that shooting that gun is going to cost full cartridges. I also don't plan to reload for the .357 Sig, but that may change.But after all my emotional biases, opinions and ramblings, you want a particular gun, then by all means, buy that gun!
Good luck with your choice,
PE
Gryffydd
Member
You're willing to recommend something that you actually don't have any idea about? Considering that the 5.7 out of a pistol barely beats the .22 WMR out of a rifle... It has the velocity and profile to penetrate armor (given the right bullet core) but it does not have the mass to penetrate a lot of soft tissue.
Polar Express
Member
I'm sorry if my communication left the impression that I was recommending that he purchase the FiveseveN pistol. I thought I made it clear that my recommendation was that he CONSIDER it.
If you want to make this personal, please do our membership (and me) the courtesy of doing it with a PM.
PE
If you want to make this personal, please do our membership (and me) the courtesy of doing it with a PM.
PE
Gryffydd
Member
Oh please, it's not personal, it's about the factual validity of your post. My sole comment, as indicated by the quoted portion in my post, was directly related to the assumption that a 5.7 would penetrate better than a 10mm or .45acp without any knowledge (based on the words "I'll bet") of whether it actually would or not. (It won't) It's a good idea to do a little research before recommending something for consideration.
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