Do you Carry chambered?

[Legionnaire]

Always one in the chamber, whether Ruger LCP in the pocket (in an Alessi pocket holster) or a 1911 (cocked and locked in a thumb break holster) on the hip.

 

[Hokkmike]

A good thread. As I will be carrying my first DAO pistol I will need to study its operation and safety features then make my decision.

For a DA/SA when on my person condition ONE is appropriate. When stored, night stand etc., condition TWO is preferred.

 

[ezypikns]

I like the story about the old Texas Ranger.

This is from the "Cocked and Locked" online column from Robert H. Boatman.

Texas Ranger Charlie Miller was minding his own business when a concerned citizen came up to him, noted the hammer cocked back on the big 1911 dangling from the Ranger's belt, and asked, "Isn't that dangerous?" Charlie replied, "I wouldn't carry the son-of-a-bitch if it wasn't dangerous."

I feel pretty much the same way.

 

[sawhitt]

Chambered cocked, and locked.

How else would one carry a 1911?

 

[Evela]

To all my new friends here, please forgive me if I cannot be as attentive as I'd like as after a time, even swatting flies can become burdensome. For those who read, but especially for those who do better with moving pictures, thought I'd share the following:

Link to Summit Training (Texas, New Mexico, San Francisco)

Be sure to check out the imbedded video if you want to see just how much slower the Israeli draw is, lol...

 

[DougDubya]

This is from the "Cocked and Locked" online column from Robert H. Boatman.

Quote:
Texas Ranger Charlie Miller was minding his own business when a concerned citizen came up to him, noted the hammer cocked back on the big 1911 dangling from the Ranger's belt, and asked, "Isn't that dangerous?" Charlie replied, "I wouldn't carry the son-of-a-bitch if it wasn't dangerous."

I feel pretty much the same way.

Yeah, but Charlie Miller carried his with the safety off, the hammer at half cock, and the grip safety pinned down by a length of rawhide wrapped around it.

(Part of the reason why I consider Condition 2 feasible - it worked for Charlie Miller who was QUITE successful with the 1911 that way. But I wouldn't pin the grip safety.)

 

[ArmedBear]

This is a typical one line response that expects us to believe you - why? - well, just because you say so. Thank god you finally posted. I have seen the light. Idiocy defined.

There IS no better response.

A process that requires multiple steps is not a one-step process.

You expect others to believe an absolute, inherent falsehood because YOU think you made it CLEAR enough?

That, my friend, is idiocy defined.

 

[DHJenkins]

1911 - Chambered, cocked & locked.

Any of my Sigs - Chambered only. DA/SA doesn't require cocking, and there is no external safety (to lock).

Proper finger discipline & drawing technique will always get a weapon on target faster than any "super-fast-slide-rack-and-draw" technique. Always.

If anyone believes that their weapon could spontaneously discharge, they shouldn't be carrying it in the first place.

An Israeli draw is very fast, but ergonomically speaking, it's not nearly as efficient as a 'regular' draw.

Be sure to check out the imbedded video if you want to see just how much slower the Israeli draw is, lol...

That man has the advantage that his weapon is NOT concealed. You couldn't do the same thing if your weapon was under an untucked shirt, for example. You can't raise your shirt with your weak hand and rack the weapon at the same time.

 

[BornAgainBullseye]

My 1911 in .45 acp will in .3 seconds travel 80 yards. In the common defensive range it will do it in .03 seconds. .3 seconds is what seperates living from the dead.

 

[kwelz]

Wow. A few of us Tried being nice. But I think I will risk getting in trouble and just say it. Evela, please go away, your attitude is not wanted or appreciated around here. Adults can disagree and debate various issues. You are not acting like an adult.

 

[One-Time]

It would be retarded to not carry a chambered gun IMO!

I carry a 1911 'Cocked and Locked'

 

[Frank Ettin]

...Ayoob also pointed out the incredible and debilitating effects of stress in a gunfight - especially for the amateur. He has also shown great respect for the Israeli method (see my earlier posts)....

You have clearly never met Mas nor taken one of his classes. I have. And he teaches carrying the gun with a round chambered.

 

[ArmedBear]

Maybe Evela is really Shiva.

But if he is, then nobody ELSE here is. Or is that not how Hindu theology works?

 

[Frank Ettin]

Maybe Evela is really Shiva...

So that's how he can manage the Israeli draw so well. He has a bunch of extra arms.

 

[Grey_Mana]

Wow. A few of us Tried being nice. ... your attitude is not wanted or appreciated around here. Adults can disagree and debate various issues. You are not acting like an adult.

Posts like this make me wonder who here is a plantiff's attorney in lawsuits against gun makers.

Billy had taken out the gun’s clip before aiming it, believing that would make it harmless. A bullet that had remained in the gun’s chamber killed Joshua.

 

[James T Thomas]

yes

Six chambered!

And No safety to forget to disengage.

 

[kwelz]

Posts like this make me wonder who here is a plantiff's attorney in lawsuits against gun makers.

Care to elaborate. How does my commenting that his attitude is out of line have anything to do with the idiots in that lawsuit.

 

[ezypikns]

Amazing!!!!!!!

Disagreement on "The High Road"!!!!!!!

When there's nothing left of this dead horse, let's argue about...........................OPEN CARRY!

 

[bang_bang]

Para-O P10 1911 .45- Cocked and locked.
EAA Witness .45- One Chambered with safety on.
Dan Wesson .357- 6 ready to rock n' roll.
Kel-Tec 9mm- Chambered.

Otherwise...I think any of these would just be a relatively expensive rock to throw at someone. In that case, the Kel-Tec wouldn't be nearly as effective as the others, due to it's polymer frame.

Now for home defense and such, I keep the Witness and Dan Wesson loaded at all times. The Para-O then has a magazine in it, but I don't chamber a round. That way every time I carry it, I am sure that I have chambered a round.

 

[dom1104]

this is possibly the wierdest thread I have ever read.


It has everything.

Mall Ninjas.
Jews.
Angry 1911 proponents.
female officer "Racing Stripes"
and "dropping your gun in the toilet, grabbing for it, it goes off and you lose your job"

lol...... okaaaaaaaaaaaay.

 

[Kleanbore]

When I carry a Smith & Wesson Centennial, I carry it with five rounds chambered. There's no functional advantage in doing it any other way.

So--it's draw, aim, squeeze once or several times. Obviously there's no safety.

A semi-automatic with a DAO or long-pull striker fired action involves the same movements and the same time from initiating the draw to firing as the double action revolver double action. A lot of people use them.

In the majority of the justifiable self defense shooting scenarios that I can envision, that draw and fire technique leaves very little margin for error, time-wise. I cannot lawfully produce the weapon until the danger is imminent. Loosely translated that means it is now.

All of the semi-automatic pistols I have ever had have had safeties that I could operate extremely quickly and that I do operate without thinking about them. There seems to be no really measurable time penalty vs. the double action revolver. Some people do not like a safety on a striker fired or DAO semi-automatic. I do. I wouldn't dream of having a single action semi-auto without a safety.

Additional time is needed for me to cycle a slide--an extra step, even if concurrent with presenting the pistol, and for me and probably for most people it slows the process. Add in that time increment and I cannot be at all sure of drawing and firing quickly enough to stop a man who initiates a deadly force encounter by surprise at close range, so the choice for me is obvious. No empty chamber for me except at the range.

Is there a danger of a negligent discharge? I do not see any greater danger than with a revolver.

I do not know a single policeman with whom I have discussed guns who does not carry his pistol with a round in the chamber.

"Back in the day" they carried their revolvers loaded, too. What's the difference?

 

[Frank Ettin]

Posts like this make me wonder who here is a plantiff's attorney in lawsuits against gun makers.

A little far afield aren't we? That case has nothing to do with carrying a gun with a loaded chamber.

[1] The issue at present, and the one the plaintiff is trying to take to the Supreme Court, is only procedural. The case was thrown out as barred by federal law prohibiting certain types of lawsuits against gun makers. The question will be the constitutionality of that law. For the present, neither the mechanics of guns nor the merits of the case generally will even be considered.

[2] And the question in the underlying case is whether the gun was defectively designed because it didn't have a magazine disconnect. Aside from the fact that there are all sorts of hurdles to making that stick, it's really irrelevant to a gun in the control of the authoruized user having a round in the chamber.

[3] In fact the underlying case is really about the owner of the gun allowing a loaded gun to be accessible to an unauthorized person. And indeed the owner probably has some liability there, but he doesn't have as much money as Beretta.

[4] Still leaving a gun unattended around the house with a loaded chamber is a very different thing from having a gun with a loaded chamber under your control in a holster on your person.

 

[NoleMan]

Chambered and ready to go. No safety is on. A good holster and sound gun traning should prevent any accidents. When, and if, I need my firearm, I don't want to have to think...I just want to pull the trigger and have the gun function.

 

[conw]

I like this post. Very reasonable, at least tries to present a well intended argument. Thank you. But unfortunately this post falls into the quick 'n dirty, cut 'n paste Google result. Here's how it works. You Google the result you'd like to find, then scan maybe the first page of results, grab the one that says what you think you want to say, cut and paste and voila! You look like a superstar. Simple, fast, superficially impressive, but...

Irrelevant.

Posters like this not only don't fully read or comprehend the post they are trying - very quickly - to reply to, they often don't read their own citations. Read the above again - this poster is referring to the experiences of the highly trained LAPD SWAT team. Irrelevent to the common CCW carrier who would probably sit down, cry and pray in the same circumstances.

I know maybe you don't mean to be trolling, but you are clearly trying to provoke emotional responses from me, and other posters, with your flippant responses to well-reasoned posts.

Matter of fact, I remembered that article as had I read it years ago. I had a feeling you would latch on to the "well-trained lawmen" part of it, but you skipped right over the meat:

Since the 1911 is best carried fully loaded with a round in the chamber and “cocked and locked”—the hammer cocked on the live round, and the thumb safety “on safe”—you want to learn to wipe that safety lever into the “fire” position as you bring the gun up on target.

Notice the use of the word "you." Who do you think the intended readers of Backwoods Home are? I somehow doubt they are "well-trained lawmen" of the LAPD. But you can feel free to obfuscate further if you want.

Because of its short trigger pull and cocked n’ locked condition of readiness, the 1911 .45 auto is better suited to the skilled and dedicated practitioner than to the amateur. That said, nearly a century of history has made the 1911 .45 automatic the quintessential “homeland security” pistol, from the rural game fields to house to house combat, and nothing is going to change that.

Ayoob CLEARLY states there (at the end of the same article) that a "skilled and dedicated practitioner," whether in home defense situation or game field - one would assume this excludes police for the most part - can operate a 1911. This definitively shows he advocates cocked and locked carry for anyone who chooses to use the 1911, in addition to training/preparedness/skill.

You said you would defer to Ayoob, so I assume you are a troll who wants to continue arguing about this and insult me personally rather than concede a point. People without an axe to grind have no problem conceding that their own logic proves them wrong.

Do you have any data showing that police are more likely to win a gunfight than a well-trained CHP holder? That seems to be another cornerstone of your argument that is completely baseless.

 

[jkingrph]

Standard type 1911, round chambered, cocked and safety on, same with Browning HP. My Para Ordanace PDA-LDA 45, round chambered, safety on. S&W Ti lite , hammerless, dao, 5 shot, cylinder full.