Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Red Wind, Aug 28, 2016.
Many thanks for your input, good advice and I appreciate your experience.
I would like the opportunity to talk to your guy in Dayton, someone with that experience is valuable info.
Not sure if this guy racks the slide or not, but you can see how his hand is on or near the slide enough that it could have been performed. I came up with this video in under 5 minutes so give me a break if not perfect. Not the kind of thing that is usually cataloged. And I hate that this guy hides behind a woman.
He had a loaded chamber. He said so from the start.
This was discussed at length on the Ohioans for Concealed Carry forums, including input from the victim himself.
If one is from Giddings, Tx - www.krtraining.com is near by and an excellent resource to learn how how to carry and use one's gun.
They also offer significant FOF so one can evaluate responses in a gun fight or other incidents.
Otherwise, this is the same old debate - over and over. If you are scared you will shoot yourself - then do what you need to do vs. the risk not being ahead of the curve in a significant incident.
Training would assuage these fears, BTW.
Always chambered. Can't rack the slide while trying to hold off an attacker at close distances. Have to be able to draw and shoot with one hand. I believe most self defense situations occur within about seven feet. How fast can an attacker cover seven feet while you're trying to draw and rack a slide? You could be using your off hand to ward them off while drawing your weapon whether that be a gun or a knife.
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Yep. Lose the use of a hand for a significant amount of time and that is a lesson for you. I broke my wrist and experienced the situation. I also took a class in injured shooting techniques. I can do one handed stuff but I don't want.
As said endlessly:
Hold your kid, phone, light, wife, opening doors, car situations, blah, blah. Add the risk of screwing up the rack (seen in matches not infrequently) plus significant training - unchambered carry of the EDC semi is just plain silly. Good for you that you think you will shoot yourself.
A running man can cover 21 feet in the time it takes a trained shooter to recognize the danger and draw from an open holster. If the runner has a knife in his hand.....you can figure out the rest.
I'm always carrying in Condition One; everything else takes way too long, and even C-1 can cut it close.
My gun works a lot better as a gun if I have a round chambered. YMMV.
The only reason I would not have a round chambered is if I was for some reason forced to carry a pistol I didn't trust or in a situation where I lacked adequate gear (Mexican carry of a Glock). Any handgun I am carrying that I selected? That will be in Condition One.
As for why, I can show you a half dozen real-life shooting incidents where the good guy started out healthy and with full use of both hands and whether they lived or died came down to their ability to use the firearm one-handed. Given how often I see people catching sims rounds in the hands in Force on Force, I just can't imagine putting myself in a situation where I'm carring Condition 3 if I can avoid it.
Just think, your walking down the street and a guy steps out with a knife and says give me your wallet. Are you really going to have the time to cycle a round and shoot without getting stabbed? No point in carrying a unloaded gun, always, always carry loaded.
Gee, and here I've been carrying a Hi-Power almost daily with a round in the chamber for over 20 years. And all that time the only thing preventing it from firing was the manual safety, the firing pin safety and actually pressing the trigger.
Originally Posted by PabloJ
Where do people come up with this stuff. It amazes me how much misinformation is put out there for all to see. I guess the design of cocked and locked is to prevent an ND on an empty chamber?
Wow, just wow.
Here I thought 1911s were designed to be carried in condition one and combat ready. Someone better let JMB know this information.
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First, we are talking about the if and when of needing a pistol. If you don't think you'll ever need it, you won't be carrying one at all so the "what condition" wouldn't even come up.
Then, the majority of private citizen defensive gun uses are close quarters.
1911 - cocked and locked; as JMB intended.
I really don't even know how this can be an argument, just like birdshot being an effective defense round. Why even allow the chance of not being able to get your gun ready and in the fight?
This video sheds some light on the subject. Carrying empty is a big gamble.
See post # 62.
Here's the guy's own account: http://www.ohioccwforums.org/viewtopic.php?p=3998394#p3998394
The Glock 36 has been my carry gun since 2005. Good to see it performed as I've always expected it would. Hopefully, I am never in this good mans shoes.
Thanks for sharing, CoRoMo.
I remember reading all about that incident awhile back.
Sometimes people are attacked and don't have the ability to rack the slide. That was one such example. As previously mentioned, Zimmerman was another, there are more, and who knows how many that don't make the internet news circle.
What is the point in carrying if the pistol is not ready to use when you need it. The time it takes to rack the slide might be time you don't have. Always carry with one in the pipe.
Let me preface this by saying, I carry most often on my body in condition 1. I do know other's including my wife, that chose to carry differently and I tire of all of the "carry in condition 0 or 1, or go home" talk.
Although, every personal defense class I've attended assumes an ambush style assault occurring within a split second, the only statistics I've ever seen don't indicate that this is a frequent occurrence. In fact a split second ambush is very rare. In the most interesting study I've seen, "The Armed Citizen – A Five Year Analysis," it shows that a stunning 80% of successful self defense incidents have the defender retrieving the firearm from a storage location. There is plenty of value in being armed, and not in condition 0 or 1, and if that is what is the most comfortable for certain people, then it's really none of my business.
Please, show me statistics on how often those carrying in non condition 0 and 1 are over powered and harmed by the perpetrator.
Your risk analysis is faulty. The relevant issue isn't only how often someone loses a fight because they didn't have a round chambered - though we can show at least a half dozen anecdotal cases of where that was important,
The relevant issue is whether you think you have a higher risk of shooting yourself than you do of defending yourself. If you assess that risk as positive, then a chambered round makes no sense; but it does raise the question of why you are carrying a tool you assess as more of a risk to yourself than a benefit.
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