Do you consider where/how you sit in a restaurant while carrying

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When located in a static position in a public venues, like seated in a restaurant, there is no downside to positioning oneself to have maximum available visibility of what is going on around you.
True, but that does not make it a viable defensive strategy.

Yeah, you could "miss something"....
"Could miss something? What an understatement!

...dismissing the whole concept because a "recognized trainer" managed to pooh-pooh it is rather silly.
I agree.

I should not have had to be told--by anyone. I should not have had to have the folly demonstrated to me. I should have thought for myself.

For those who are still enamored by the idea, this is an ideal subject for FoF training, with different players of different descriptions trying numerous different scenarios, some with bad guys coming in the door, and others having already been seated. They should address shoot/no-shoot situations. Most scenarios should involve no attacks at all, and in each case, the defender should order from the menu, be served, eat, pay and depart--just like reality.
 
True, but that does not make it a viable defensive strategy.

"Could miss something? What an understatement!

I agree.

I should not have had to be told--by anyone. I should not have had to have the folly demonstrated to me. I should have thought for myself.

For those who are still enamored by the idea, this is an ideal subject for FoF training, with different players of different descriptions trying numerous different scenarios, some with bad guys coming in the door, and others having already been seated. They should address shoot/no-shoot situations. Most scenarios should involve no attacks at all, and in each case, the defender should order from the menu, be served, eat, pay and depart--just like reality.

Doing something that can improve your situational awareness in a public setting is part of viable defensive strategy, including the very valid concept of conflict avoidance. It's also not a binary function of "fully aware" and "clueless". I can't believe this is really a debate on this forum. Some of you folks really function in an alternative environment from everybody else.
 
If you set right next to the door, open carrying, a bad guy might see you and decide now is not the time. As opposed to what many think, that he will take you out first.

If it was a group of people, say 3 or 4, all open carrying, I think that presents a great deterrent, rather than the suggested first casualt or targets of thieves seeking easy guns.
 
Doing something that can improve your situational awareness in a public setting is part of viable defensive strategy, including the very valid concept of conflict avoidance.
It can't hurt, but I don't see it as very helpful. I do not make any effort to have myself seated for such a purpose. Should one want to try it out, it is possible to test the effectiveness of the strategy.

I believe that one's risk RE: being attacked at restaurants is highest when walking to the car, particularly while passing corners, dumpsters, etc. in the lot around the building.
 
It can't hurt, but I don't see it as very helpful. I do not make any effort to have myself seated for such a purpose. Should one want to try it out, it is possible to test the effectiveness of the strategy.

I believe that one's risk RE: being attacked at restaurants is highest when walking to the car, particularly while passing corners, dumpsters, etc. in the lot around the building.

It's all not about you being the one initially attacked. It pertains to situations that you see developing, and providing more time for executing a response- like moving your family out of the side or back door and away from an escalating scenario, and not automatically gunplay from a seated position.
 
t's all not about you being the one initially attacked. It pertains to situations that you see developing, and providing more time for executing a response- like moving your family...
Sure--so, with that in mind, should I sit as close as possible to the front door facing the register, if offered the opportunity?

In some of the security camera videos we have seen, the perps start from a table at which they have been sitting, and in all of them, the situation unfolds very rapidly and without warning. I do not know how I would handle that.

I will say that I have never liked sitting with my back to the center of the establishment, to the register, or the door, but trouble could start at a table I cannot see, the register, the restroom door, or anywhere else.
 
If you set right next to the door, open carrying, a bad guy might see you and decide now is not the time. As opposed to what many think, that he will take you out first.

If it was a group of people, say 3 or 4, all open carrying, I think that presents a great deterrent, rather than the suggested first casualt or targets of thieves seeking easy guns.

Well, yeah and people don't attack armed cops Every. Single. Day
 
I always sit where my wife tells me to sit.


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Sure--so, with that in mind, should I sit as close as possible to the front door facing the register, if offered the opportunity?

In some of the security camera videos we have seen, the perps start from a table at which they have been sitting, and in all of them, the situation unfolds very rapidly and without warning. I do not know how I would handle that.

I will say that I have never liked sitting with my back to the center of the establishment, to the register, or the door, but trouble could start at a table I cannot see, the register, the restroom door, or anywhere else.

Given an available seating situation, I attempt to position myself with the majority of activity in front of me and not behind. I don't like being immediately near the register or the kitchen. It's not a hard and fast rule, just a guideline.
 
When I go somewhere with my Dad, I don't have to worry about it. He's the one who taught me how to pick a spot in a restaurant.
 
I would rather see a BLM protest coming and unass the area, so it's useful for that. Just look at the many videos out there of this happening (Rochester NY et. al.). If I see it quick, I'm not there.

For some nut, nah probably don't matter.
 
Back against the wall. Close enough to view entrances/exits but not close enough to be the first target. Evaluate cover and concealment options. Chairs and tables will conceal your position but most won't stop a bullet. Know the difference. Doesn't everyone sit this way?
 
I believe that one's risk RE: being attacked at restaurants is highest when walking to the ca
100%.
We had a heap of gang activity in our nearest city. I asked the asst. DA why, he said "Cause we keep t taking down the leaders." When I asked how to stay out of trouble he said, "Don't go out after dark... but since you're going to anyway, don't walk to your car without at least 4 people. Ask me how I know."
 
Doesn't everyone sit this way?
Nope.
When we go to our favorite restaurant, the first thing I evaluate is, "Where's Naomi's section." I dine for enjoyment.

As I've said a couple times in this thread, I observe. Like the elderly gent at lunch that made frequent trips outside. On the last trip he brought in his wife.
 
While I was careful to always face front doors in restaurants as a younger cop, that gave way to other considerations, training, experience and the needs of the moment in any particular setting. :)

While I like to see who is walking up toward the restaurant (in those which offer views out the front windows), or who is walking in the doors, being positioned to make direct eye contact comes with its own set of potential issues. One of them is that if someone is entering intent to commit violence, they may be keyed up and see you seeing them, and decide you're a possible threat and target, and act right away. That might put you a second behind the curve they've created. Also, as mentioned, being seated so your concealed weapon has to be accessed where the movement is easily viewed - and then reaching for it, which is an obvious motion - might serve to attract attacker attention before you're ready for it. TANSTAAFL.

Nowadays? I tend to prefer to be seated where I can see out windows, but out of the direct line-of-sight of anyone entering the door. I want to see them before they see me, ideally. If that's not possible, I want to be seated where I'm not likely to be among the first victims chosen ... and, where I can see the faces and body language of other patrons. Sometimes the reactions of others can provide enough of a clue that something's amiss, even if they aren't sure what's happening, or are puzzled, themselves. Think Coal Mine Canaries.

When I'm at my cigar club, and one of the retired cops is present, I've noticed that he often likes to sit out-of-line with the front door, but still facing it. When that's the case, I like to sit so my face, shoulders and hands are facing away from the entrance, but I'm facing the other retired cop. He's always very aware of activities near the front of the club, and even the back door ... so I relax and just watch him. If he reacts, my reaction to his body language may still pass unnoticed for crucial moments ... as anyone drawing his attention and focus will probably focus on his reactions and not see mine soon enough. :neener:

Kind of reminds me of how I used to have a partner in my bureau who was a swat guy, and he was always wanting to lead the way when we entered residences looking for someone. He was also 6'5", and eager to pave the way. :scrutiny: Well, alrighty then. ;) I often ended up catching someone by surprise when they were too focused on him in front of them, and failed to see the little guy 5'9" slip around and gain a position of advantage. That was occasionally helpful when my partner ended up getting caught in a position of sudden disadvantage, or had simply leaped ahead where a prudent angel might fear to tread without some caution. :uhoh::what:

A couple times I looked at him, when he displayed that deer-in-the-headlights look, and took control of the situation while trying not to radiate that, "I told you so, dude" vibe.:rofl:

Sitting in an enclosed area where I could become a victim just requires a little awareness and common sense. You can only have control of some things relating to your immediate environment. Trying to be in Condition Yikes!! all the time is tiring, and just makes you look weird. :cool:
 
...being positioned to make direct eye contact comes with its own set of potential issues. One of them is that if someone is entering intent to commit violence, they may be keyed up and see you seeing them, and decide you're a possible threat
Good points.

Not so much the position, but the actions and expressions, are discussed by Rob Pincus in the class linked in another tread. The discussion is not about identifying a criminal, but handling an interaction with any strange without being victimized or being perceived as a threat by the other person.

Also, as mentioned, being seated so your concealed weapon has to be accessed where the movement is easily viewed - and then reaching for it, which is an obvious motion - might serve to attract attacker attention before you're ready for it.
That is also addressed, obliquely, in the Pincus class.

The class is not about gun defense, but Rob does discuss how the way one carries a firearm, and where one keeps ones wallet, can influence actions in a manner that could influence how an interaction might unfold.
 
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