Mute
Member
Four against one. A 15 round magazine isn't going to make much difference.
Do you feel comforatable with only 8 rounds of .45ACP?
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Twycross
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Do I feel comfortable with only 8 rounds of .45 ACP? No. So I carry a 15+1 .40 S&W, with 25 more rounds in two extra mags, plus at least one knife, and train in martial arts. Where I can legally carry, that is (not yet 21).
crucible
Member
Just 8 rounds? On my 1911, I can and do carry 8+1, with only one additional reload that's 17 rounds, with two 25 rounds. I hardly feel underarmed accordingly, doubly so because I do have proficiency enough to utilize them and the mental confidence that stems from that proficiency.
The real lesson here is have a reload or two-and to become proficient in both the physical aspects of carrying/utilizing them and the mental requirements to employ them.
You felt underarmed specifically because of that lack of experience and practice-not because you necessarily were in fact underarmed.
Chris
The real lesson here is have a reload or two-and to become proficient in both the physical aspects of carrying/utilizing them and the mental requirements to employ them.
You felt underarmed specifically because of that lack of experience and practice-not because you necessarily were in fact underarmed.
Chris
CentralTexas
Member
Joey,
Find the money for training.....You can't buy competency and fighting skills with equipment purchases.. A large capacity magazine isn't going to help if you've haven't thought out how you would engage multiple assailants. Some things to think about: Who do you shoot first? How many times? Do you shoot until the first guy is down, or do you shoot roadhouse rules?
There is a lot more to dealing with multiple assailants then having a big enough magazine.
Jeff
Find the money for training.....You can't buy competency and fighting skills with equipment purchases.. A large capacity magazine isn't going to help if you've haven't thought out how you would engage multiple assailants. Some things to think about: Who do you shoot first? How many times? Do you shoot until the first guy is down, or do you shoot roadhouse rules?
There is a lot more to dealing with multiple assailants then having a big enough magazine.
Jeff
I feel fine with my 7+1 CCO 1911. Sometimes I carry a spare mag, mostly to balance out the belt a little. I actually feel fine with my 5shot wheelgun. If I was driving somewhere and felt I was insufficiently armed, I'd just drive off for a while, or at worst, call the cops & request they roust the bangers.
I don't feel comfortable with anything less than my AR-15, a backup pistol, at least three loaded mags for each, and a buddy.
Then again, I've had the pleasure of experiencing weapon/mag issues on the range during a string of fire. Having someone there to take out your target and cover you while you fix the problem and/or transition is comforting. Thinking about being solo or having only one weapon is not.
So, no. I'm not comfortable with only 8 rounds of .45 or 8 plus with a reload. Then again, I'd be more comfortable than if I were naked.
Then again, I've had the pleasure of experiencing weapon/mag issues on the range during a string of fire. Having someone there to take out your target and cover you while you fix the problem and/or transition is comforting. Thinking about being solo or having only one weapon is not.
So, no. I'm not comfortable with only 8 rounds of .45 or 8 plus with a reload. Then again, I'd be more comfortable than if I were naked.
Blackhawk 6
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Jeff and Crucible have it right. This is a software issue not a hardware one.
In the Legal & Political Forum there is currently a thread (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=146517) detailing an elderly gentleman who fired at his assailant through a door twice. The individual broke through the door and attacked the man at which point the man shot his assailant. Evidently the bad guy missed the Abe Lincoln Block of Instruction in school.
A statement that demonstrates poor mindset. What choice do you have but to fight when attacked by six men already at close range? Not fight? If you are going to fight, are you not going to fight to win? No doubt, six against one is an extremely bad situation. But one thing is certain, you will not win if you expect to lose.
Not necessarily. A plan based on the other guy running away is a bad plan. If it were true, all anyone would need is a starter's pistol. A friend of mine coined the term "the vaginal enemy" to describe this assumption.
In the Legal & Political Forum there is currently a thread (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=146517) detailing an elderly gentleman who fired at his assailant through a door twice. The individual broke through the door and attacked the man at which point the man shot his assailant. Evidently the bad guy missed the Abe Lincoln Block of Instruction in school.
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Blackhawk, I was being facetious. Hence the smiley.
But at close range, assuming they are armed, and even have half of a clue, you are pretty much hosed. My plan at that point is to take as many with me as possible.
I had a 4 v 1 confrontation once, (unarmed, thank goodness) and I was badly injured, but survived, and hurt some of them very badly, because I refused to quit. Sorry, friend, mindset is fine here. I just tend to find humor in many of the "nervous-what if-worst case scenario" threads in S&T.
Personally I'm comfortable with 8+1 .45 about 70% of the time, and the rest of the time (when I can wear baggier clothing, or some sort of covering garment) I carry 14+1 .45.
But at close range, assuming they are armed, and even have half of a clue, you are pretty much hosed. My plan at that point is to take as many with me as possible.
I had a 4 v 1 confrontation once, (unarmed, thank goodness) and I was badly injured, but survived, and hurt some of them very badly, because I refused to quit. Sorry, friend, mindset is fine here. I just tend to find humor in many of the "nervous-what if-worst case scenario" threads in S&T.
Personally I'm comfortable with 8+1 .45 about 70% of the time, and the rest of the time (when I can wear baggier clothing, or some sort of covering garment) I carry 14+1 .45.
Blackhawk 6
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My bad. Missed the smiley.
californiasushi
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i know this isn't legal/political, but if you had to use your firearm, how well would it go over if you took out six bad guys in the name of 'self-defense?'
John G
Member
Are we sure Lincoln isn't the best guy to take close-combat advice from? Oh. Oh yeah. The Ford's Theater thing.
My Bad.
My Bad.
sacp81170a
Member
Clear disparity of force. 6 guys coming at you with the intent to harm you are more dangerous than one guy with a knife. Deadly force could easily be justified given the correct circumstances.
One note: a 9mm hollowpoint may fail to expand, but a .45 will *never* shrink.
Blackhawk 6
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As long as it is not six people on the street picked at random, I think you are going to have a much easier time explaining why you felt it was necessary to use deadly force.
John G- THAT was funny!
geekWithA.45
Moderator Emeritus
Carry a spare mag, and practice your reloading drill until you can reload as fast as you can draw (<2 seconds)
Brian Williams
Moderator Emeritus
YEP
But I choose my parking spots better.
Normally a J frame and only 5 shots.
But I choose my parking spots better.
Normally a J frame and only 5 shots.
Mute
Member
I think the 6 to 1 analogy was merely an attempt to make the point that somehow if you think a 15 round magazine as opposed to an 8 round magazine will make a difference, than you're already seeking the wrong solution. No one said you should just give up or concede the fight from the get go.
Is all that machismo real?
I wouldn't feel comfortable with 2 loaded hicap .45's up against 6 people a few feet from me.
This coming from someone who can/has/sometimes-does carry multiple pieces (2 or more). I've had to draw 3 times (all carjacks), point 1 time, and shoot 0 times in my life (thankfully). Yeah, so far nobody has stuck around, and I greatly prefer it that way, but it might not always be that way. I wouldn't take those 6:1 odds at all... I want no part of that. If I can just drive away/farther, that's the option I want.
The area between cars might keep them from surrounding you, but the odds on 1 or more of the bad guys being armed (and there were 6) are not good odds for anybody in that situation.
I wouldn't feel comfortable with 2 loaded hicap .45's up against 6 people a few feet from me.
This coming from someone who can/has/sometimes-does carry multiple pieces (2 or more). I've had to draw 3 times (all carjacks), point 1 time, and shoot 0 times in my life (thankfully). Yeah, so far nobody has stuck around, and I greatly prefer it that way, but it might not always be that way. I wouldn't take those 6:1 odds at all... I want no part of that. If I can just drive away/farther, that's the option I want.
The area between cars might keep them from surrounding you, but the odds on 1 or more of the bad guys being armed (and there were 6) are not good odds for anybody in that situation.
Trisha
Member
Joey;
It sounds like you really need to rig up and join a hard-core paintball team. I don't know about your area, but herebouts there are lots of LEOs that love it, even train & study basic tactics in teams. Then get through enough formal defensive handgun training to qualify for some intensive and practical simmunitions time.
No opportunity/means for the above? Work on it. Realizing your deficiencies is a big step in the right direction - though the impulse to think in terms of an object instead of accepting (spoken gently and without mockery or cruelty) your self image had weaknesses is common in most.
The school of hard knocks helps people realize (if they are fortunate enough to survive) the mind is the real weapon, and it's an infinite resource if you're willing to unlearn some patterns. . .
Can you detail out the specifics of what you saw and what you reacted to that initiated a sense of vulnerability, and then list what reinforced it? You were broadcasting your reactions, Joey. They likely fed on your vulnerability, and that had to cut deeply.
I wish you well.
It sounds like you really need to rig up and join a hard-core paintball team. I don't know about your area, but herebouts there are lots of LEOs that love it, even train & study basic tactics in teams. Then get through enough formal defensive handgun training to qualify for some intensive and practical simmunitions time.
No opportunity/means for the above? Work on it. Realizing your deficiencies is a big step in the right direction - though the impulse to think in terms of an object instead of accepting (spoken gently and without mockery or cruelty) your self image had weaknesses is common in most.
The school of hard knocks helps people realize (if they are fortunate enough to survive) the mind is the real weapon, and it's an infinite resource if you're willing to unlearn some patterns. . .
Can you detail out the specifics of what you saw and what you reacted to that initiated a sense of vulnerability, and then list what reinforced it? You were broadcasting your reactions, Joey. They likely fed on your vulnerability, and that had to cut deeply.
I wish you well.
carebear
Member
Roadhouse rules? Am I remembering right...
Everybody gets firsts before anyone gets seconds?
All the advice on hardware overlooked our pal joey's best bet: Suddenly "remembering" that he had to go back to the store for some more beer.
If he comes back an hour later and the "questionables" are still there, then (if necessary) he can always use his best weapon available to him and "park" on them...
"Officer, I was just holding them here for you..."
How long have you lived there, joey? This is assigned parking and you still haven't found out who your next (car) door neighbor is yet? Maybe they were being assaulted? Did you call 911 or your building's security (if any)?
No flame. Just stuff to think about...
If he comes back an hour later and the "questionables" are still there, then (if necessary) he can always use his best weapon available to him and "park" on them...
"Officer, I was just holding them here for you..."
How long have you lived there, joey? This is assigned parking and you still haven't found out who your next (car) door neighbor is yet? Maybe they were being assaulted? Did you call 911 or your building's security (if any)?
No flame. Just stuff to think about...
KriegHund
Member
I have an idea.
In such a situation where its 6 vs one, i would draw and retreat!
In such a situation where its 6 vs one, i would draw and retreat!
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