Do You Get What You Pay For?

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gwine

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Now that I have taken the NRA Basic Pistol Class I am ready to shop for a handgun. I will probably get a 9mm along the lines of the Glock 17 my son has, but I remain flexible.

However, my question pertains to the price vs performance issue. For those of you who have multiple handguns of similar features, do you notice the higher price guns being better? By better I would say more reliable and better workmanship. I haven't looked at too many guns, but I did like the Sig Sauer P226, whose MSRP is higher than others I have checked out, like the Springfield XD-9.

If you're a revolver type and you have comments about them, please do so. I am not set on any particular type of gun or ammo, but I would appreciate a comparison that looks at similar types (i.e. all 9mm semi-auto, .45 1911's, .357 revolvers).

Thanks for your comments.
 
Somewhat. There are some true gems out there for a reasonable price,though.

The Springfield XD series is great for the money, especially the 45. It is high-capacity, easy to shoot, and very well behaved...plus, it is a cannonball instead of a bullet.

Another great value is the Taurus 24/7, or even the S&W M&P series of handguns.
 
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No, you don't always get what you pay for. But you never get what you don't pay for.

IMO&E, the bottom limit for a reliable defense gun is around $200, new -- and if you buy used, you need to absolutely know what you are doing.

Incidentally, at the bottom end of the price scale, revolvers tend to be the better choice for the same money. As you go up the scale, that evens out.

pax
 
+1 on "somewhat." There is a huge dimishing returns when you get to the higher dollar guns.

Much of the value guns (what I consider under $500) are excellent firearms. Such are the XD series and CZ-75

It's sort of difficult to explain since everyone's criteria for a perfect platform is different, but spend some time to hold and appreciate all the platforms out there. Glocks are tried and true, very proven to be awesome handguns.

IMO, the differences on the <$1000 guns (SA Milspec vs SA Loaded) vary drastically in quality, feel and fit. Once you get past the $1000 mark and up, the differences are so subtle that "getting what you pay for" really doesn't matter anymore. A difference between a Les Baer vs. Wilson vs. Ed Brown would be hard to distiguish by many casual shooters.

Set a price ceiling of what you're willing to spend, many people on here would be able to give you a lot of suggestions.


Good luck.
 
You have to look beyond the dollar value. If the handgun fits you well, is reliable, and you have confidence in it then it doesn't matter if it costs $200 or $2000. On the other hand if a $5000 handgun doesn't have the same attributes then it might as well cost $5. Bottom line is try as many different models that you can and decide what's best for you. Don't get caught up in the brand name or caliber wars.
 
I got my S&W 637 Airweight for $350. It is reliable, accurate, and able to take .38 special +P rounds.

I would agree the $200 is about the baseline for a decent pistol, unless the seller doesn't know what they've got. But in the $200-$400 range their are several new and used auto and revolvers that can be quite reliable.

Rossi
Tuarus
Kel-tec
Kahr
Rock Island Armory
Smith and Wesson
Springfield Armory
Ruger
 
I believe "you get what you pay for".....my three basic requirements for a firearm are as follows:

1) Classic timeless proven design/function/reputation

2) Low production numbers manufactured

3) High quality workmanship and materials

(I rarely consider cost)
 
To me, most of the service type weapons are all good and pretty reasonably priced. I'm talking SA XD, Glock 17, S&W M&P, HK USP and Sig P226.

Sure there is maybe $3-400 between the cheapest S&W M&P and the most expensive HK USP, but that really is not a lot of money in the long run.

All of the guns that I've mentioned will work pretty much out of the box, so you have to decide what features you want first.

The cheaper guns have no external safety lever and are basically DAO. These are the Glock, XD adn S&W M&P.

The more expensive guns have SA/DA or possibly Cocked and locked capability with external safety lever and decockers. The HK USP and Sig P226.

Steve
 
I own a Kimber Ultra that ran me just about 900$. I also have a 3rd gen S&W 9mm auto I paid 300$ for and Kel-Tec P11 I bought brand new for 250$ a few years back. I have a few others as well.

Is the Kimber more reliable than the others? No. Does it fire a larger bullet. Yes. I wouldn't trust anything under 500$ in .45. Can I shoot my 900$ gun more accurately than my 250$ gun? Yes, but they are all 'compact' pistols designed for short range, not accuracy... I have a MKIII for that. The worksmanship is definitely better on my Kimber as well as the resale value.

There are definitely advantages to high-end and high-priced pistols. You get nice options, like cars. Night sights standard, checkering, nice triggers, melt jobs, reliablity jobs, fancy grips etc... if those options are worth it to you, then high-end is for you... if you're going to 'pimp' it anyways, might as well buy it pre-pimped cheaper. You do get what you pay for... but it's mainly options IMHO, you may not need them or even care about them... so why pay more?

That being said, many pistols are great AND cheap. Many of the CZ's, S&W 3rd gen autos, bersas, rossi's maybe makarovs the list is bigger I'm sure.

If you're going cheap, revolvers are your bet, IMHO. Less moving parts, less chace of build quality impacting functioning. You can get a nice Rossi, Taurus or S&W .357 on the relatively cheap... PLUS you can practice with .38spl....

Good luck! Alll the pistols you listed are nice. Going to come down to personal preference!
 
CZ-83 for $199 at aimsurplus.com. This is probably one of the best buys out there.

Scratch that: their Swiss K-31 for $110 is the best buy going, but it's not a handgun.
 
Undoubtedly "Yes"

You certainly do get what you pay for. But, as with anything, there are diminishing returns. Is the Sig 226ST worth $900 new? Maybe. It sure is a sweet pistol. Fires great. But is it worth $400 more than a Taurus? Maybe not. No question that you pay more for the brand. No question that the higher priced pistols have certain features that the lower priced ones don't all have (such as a metal vs. polymer frame). But there are some important common characteristics that exist in both high and mid priced (I wont say low-priced) pistols such as a lifetime warranty. This alone is the reason that I would buy my first pistol new. Good Luck.

PS - Go for the Sig. You'll never regret it. Trust me.
 
some good advice

some questionable advice...
and some partisan advice. Imagine that.

If you have a range that will rent various pistols, that is probably the best money you can spend...and will save you from a lot of the "exploratory purchasing" that some of us have gone through ;)

Second choice is a friend with a large, full safe. Hard to come by friends like that...:rolleyes:

A gun shop or gun show can also give you the opportunity to view, handle (but not fire) a number of pistols. At least you may get an idea of what you might like.

Good news is, there are a lot of good designs out there. Bad news is, most people tend to prefer one or two designs, and it takes some doin' to figure out which is right for you.

Other good news is...the looking/learning is fun.

Enjoy.
 
Yes...the difference, like w/ most things, is in fit and finish. You'll find smoother operation, nicer metal finish, better barrel lock up (usually), and consistency between models (meaning samples w/in a product line will feel very similar if not identical).
Enjoy the quest for you 1st handgun :D
 
There are definitely advantages to high-end and high-priced pistols. You get nice options, like cars. Night sights standard, checkering, nice triggers, melt jobs, reliablity jobs, fancy grips etc... if those options are worth it to you, then high-end is for you... if you're going to 'pimp' it anyways, might as well buy it pre-pimped cheaper. You do get what you pay for... but it's mainly options IMHO, you may not need them or even care about them... so why pay more?
Click to expand...
Hadn't thought a lot about that dimension, but it certainly makes sense, and the car analogy is apt.

It's not as though I going to quibble too much about the money, although $1000 is probably my top end. I am not wealthy but I will pay what I feel is a fair price for something that I will be happy with and will use. Part of the reason I asked is that I could buy two nice guns, say a 9mm auto and a .357 revolver, for the price of the Sig. If there is little difference in workmanship and reliability then why pay more? And why not have a couple of guns in different flavors just for the variety?

I will say, though, that whatever I buy will probably be my only purchase for a while (I've got my eyes on a $2500 recumbent trike), so I want to be happy with it/them. So, I can buy two $450-$500 guns or one $900-$1000 gun. I do plan to go to a couple of ranges and rent several guns once I have narrowed the field, since I don't have any gun owning friends who have a nice selection to check out. :D

Thanks again for all the comments. It is a lot of fun looking and reading the comments here on THR.
 
My 3 favorite handguns were under 350.00 and they are a S&W 642 , taurus 850CIA, & my new
CZ40P which is by far my fovorite now.
 
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For me the xd's around here are $461 out the door with three mags, holster, mag carrier, loading tool, and the works. i think they are worth much more than that. When it comes to guns like sig's, h&k's and the like of what i consider expensive handguns. i don't think the features and the benifits of the other " more expensive" gun brands, justify me spending the money, that they want for them. some people think i am crazy but that is the way i feel, why spend all that money on a gun, when i can get something that fits me perfect and something i can shoot great with and have money left over for some ammo and good range time? :what:
 
You almost can't go wrong.....

if it's a Smith & Wesson. Either revolver or semi-auto. Just buy used and you'll probably be getting a good deal.
 
A gun is a tool...

For my dollar the sweet spot for a defensive semi-auto is $400 to $700.

There are good guns under $400, but I think you'll find, for a rugged, reliable pistol, with a company that will back it up for as long as you own it, you are looking at a bottom end of $400.

When you start getting above $700 it means that the guns are going to start having custom fitting, may be boutique, non-commodity weapons, and, because of the tight fitting will most likely be intolerant of grime from shooting, excessive/insufficient lubrication, pocket lint, etc. Some of the price of the gun is likely nothing more than magic pixie dust in the form of a brand name on the side of the gun.

Over $1000 dollars, you are probably paying for features that you DON"T want. 2" groups at 50 yards? Waste of money, unless you're expecting to have to make long shots at angry hamsters.

Handfitted Craftsmanship? To me that means it didn't work the first 6 times the guy put it together. It means that perfectly functioning piece of machinery is going to stop working when it wears out sometime in the next 5000 rounds. It's not what you want for a weapon.

5000 rounds sounds like a lot. But you know what? In 9mm, it's about $500. You know, the price difference between a $500 gun and a $1000 gun. The 5000 rounds of ammo will make a bigger difference in your survivability than $1000 worth of geegaws, doodads and whatsits.

6 month lead time for a replacement? What if your gun breaks? Can you afford two, so you have a backup when the first one breaks? It will break if you're practicing enough. IS it so precious that the thought of it being thrown onto a metal shelf in a police evidence room makes you cry? It's not the right gun.

A few months ago I went to a shooting school. A student asked how often they should clean their gun. The instructor stated that if you paid less than $500, you probably didn't wouldn't have to clean it all week. If you paid around $1k, you should clean it at the end of the day. If you paid over $2500 you would probably have to clean 2 to 4 times a day. From my observations in that class, and at numerous USPSA matches, that seems to hold true. I haven't cleaned my Glock 17 in about 3500 rounds. It's still running fine. I'll clean it when it stops working. I think I still have a long ways to go.

As far as accuracy goes, if the gun can shoot an 8" group at 20 yards in your hands, that's good enough.

sm likes to point out "software trumps hardware." As a gun carrier you are depending on a piece of hardware to supplement your hardware. A gun is a tool. There is no need at all to goldplate a hammer. It will still drive nails just fine with that plain brushed finish. The question is this: If you gold plate your hammer, will you practice driving nails as much as you should for fear of scratching the finish? Can you even afford nails after you paid for all that gold?
 
I'm with most of the other posters, most of the mid priced guns are ok for the money, working guns as it were. The extra dollars buys better fit and finish, with dimenishing returns that start at different price points for each of us.

The one exception to my statement is the EAA Witness Elite Match, for around $400 it's a superb pistol, incredibly accurate, very well finished, and a SA trigger pull that feels great right out of the box.
 
Congratulations on taking a class. Wish more people would--before buying a gun and before posting their "knowledge" throughout the known universe.

The answer to your question is "it all depends". Big help, eh?

One indicator is whether the piece in question has been adopted and used successfully by US police or military over a sufficient length of time. An affirmative answer is not 100% but it does tend to weed out the questionable hardware. A few decades of field experience tells you something.

Whether the gun suits you in the long run is a big intangible and may be answered by buying it, living with it and shooting it a while. In spite of all the magazine articles, ads, military tests, and the opinions of all your friends handgun X just could turn out to be a big mistake for you. Some guns just love you back and behave beautifully for you no matter how much you mess up, and others delight in making you look like a fool. I am a firm believer in demonic possession of firearms, as I have owned a couple that were definitely cursed from day 1. If this sounds like women in general...well, draw your own conclusions.

I have owned some real clunkers which after some restoration have become real gems, like a mongrel puppy. I have also owned a few gee-whiz pieces that never lived up to their potential in my hands. Sometimes the magic works, sometimes it doesn't.

I have noticed, though, that when I apply the basics and get out of my own way I do better.

Only been at this game for 47 years now so I'm still learning. Still having fun at it, too.
 
Since you asked about revolvers:

It is my (semi-educated) opinion that you get a lot of bang-for-your-buck from used revolvers.

A used 9mm Glock will set you back $350, minimum. A used S&W Model 10 can be had as low as $150 on a good day.

What has the Glock got that the S&W doesn't? Capacity, that's pretty much it.

Meanwhile, the S&W 10 will be solid steel, a century-long design, good looking, and fire a round essentially equivalent in power to the Glock 9mm. Debatably, it will do so more reliably. Further, it will be easier to accessorize with new grips, etc. And it'll do all that for half the price!

If you're looking to buy a used revolver, do yourself a huge favor and check out Jim March's sticky on Used Revolver Checkout in the THR Revolver forum.

If you're going semi-auto, I like the CZs for providing great value.
 
No, you don't always get what you pay for. But you never get what you don't pay for.
Click to expand...

Well said.

IMO&E, the bottom limit for a reliable defense gun is around $200, new -- and if you buy used, you need to absolutely know what you are doing.
Click to expand...

I would venture to say the bottom is more like $300, with a handful of exceptions. With Kel-Tecs and such pushing that mark now, the sub-$300 market for good handguns pretty much leaves Eastern Mil-Surp's.

Edit: I would bet my life on my $130 CZ-52 ;)
 
Janesville? Just up the road.

In general, you will not get more of anything than you are willing to pay for, one way or another. If something is inexpensive, there's a reason for it. Sometimes that reason is a problem (ex. cutrate tech "support" which consists of a guy you can barely understand telling you to reimage your hard disk), sometimes not (Makarovs are cheap because they're surplus. Rugers are a good value because Ruger, Inc. is very good with casting) .
 
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