Do You Get What You Pay For?

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Yes and no and what is the value to you. I carry a lowely Keltec P32, paid $149, it serves its purpose very well and has been a good gun, excellent value. My Kimber compact $700ish had to go back to the shop twice, but is now slick as butter. It has taken a couple years to totally win me over. My Springfield WWII Edition 1911, 100% out of the box for $399.

Glocks are great guns and great values. I personally don't care for them having now started down the 1911 path, but I had one and it was a great shooter. For Glocks, the accessories are unlimited, the peer support and website info is virtually limitless.

I highly recommend the Glock for a PD/HD gun. I talked my brother into a Glock. No regrets. He shoots maybe once a year. I go through several hundred rounds a year. And I reload my 45acp.

If you want to get "into" guns you can always buy more.

tjg
 
What MatthewVanitas said about revolvers...

is certainly true for me. Nothing fits my hand better than my old Smith & Wesson Model 10-8 .38 special revolver (4 inch barrel). I paid exactly 150.00 for it and it's the most accurate handgun (for me) I own. I've also got a Smith & Wesson Model 36 J-frame (3 inch barrel, 240.00) which is almost as accurate and much more concealable. Also it's been my experience that learning to shoot a double action revolver will improve your trigger control on most semi autos.
Finally, go to google and find the CDNN Sports web site. Open it and download their catalog (it's the only way to view it). They're a firearms dealer out of Abilene, Texas. They sell LOTS of police trade in semi autos, and a few revolvers. Smith & Wesson, Glock, Sig, H&K, and others. Most are in excellent shape, and some of the prices have to be seen to be believed. Good luck and stay safe.
 
I can see that I have lots more reading and thinking to do.

As far as what the gun will be used for, I would say mostly target shooting at a range for now. I took the class thru the Rock County Rifle and Pistol Club and plan to join, although working 2nd shift will affect my ability to attend meetings.

I don't plan on doing any hunting for now, but if I didn't live on a 1 acre plot in a country subdivision I wouldn't mind cutting down on the ground squirrel population (closest thing we have to mad hamsters.)

The S&W 10-8 looks pretty nice. A lady at the class had a small revolver but she was not doing too good at the range. I'm not really sure why but I assume it just takes time and practice to get used to a shorter barrel.

I'm not into competition at all. The only person I have to please is myself when it comes to how well I do on the range. Maybe that would change after I get a gun and get some practice.

I read all the thread on the .22s. I hadn't considered one before but that is another option. My wife has a Henry Golden Boy .22LR that she's had since last year July and hasn't shot it yet. :eek: If a got a .22LR pistol we could share the ammo. Of course, she saw the .44 Big Boy at Gander Mountain and really liked it . . . :cool:

Home defense is another subject. I honestly don't know how I feel about this at the moment. My son thinks I should have my 870 upstairs in the bedroom closet loaded and ready to go. I would like to take the home defense class after I get a handgun and get used to firing it. I don't think I'm ready yet. A life is a terrible thing to waste, even though some people make it harder to see why they should be allowed to live. Two years ago I would never have imagined having a handgun, much less the .410 and 12 gauge shotguns I have now.

I think you all have talked me out of getting a Sig, for now (at least a new one - maybe a used one will show up.) It sounds like my best bet is to get a nice used gun or two to enjoy for now. At least I won't be out so much money if I decide that it's just not my style, and I won't go aaaargh when it gets a scratch on it. It does seem a good idea, too, to consider getting something that is popular and has been around for a while, although I would imagine there are some sleepers out there that are worth checking out.

I'll keep reading and looking. I've learned not to make impulse purchases which drives sales personnel crazy but if they are patient they do get rewarded.
 
Dont KO the Sigs to soon. They are great pistols (I dont own one, so Im not bias) and keep a look out for the Certified Pre Owned Sigs.

I think the best guns for the money are CZs, Glocks, and XDs. The CZs are around 375ish and the Glock/XDs are around 450-500. These are all new prices as my used Glock 23 was 350.

So about 350 for a used Glock 17 and 150 for the S&W 10 and you have two excellent guns for 500 dollars. Man, typing this makes me want to go out and do this myself.:)
 
The S&W 10-8 looks pretty nice. A lady at the class had a small revolver but she was not doing too good at the range. I'm not really sure why but I assume it just takes time and practice to get used to a shorter barrel.
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Some people just naturally are good with revolvers, and some people just can't get them no matter how they try.

A shorter barrel is harder to shoot accurately because the "sight radius" between front and rear sight is short. That makes it harder to tell if you're precisely centered. A 4" barrel is generally considered the best all-around length, and is generally the most common.


A .22 would be a great way to get in tons of target practice for cheap, and could share ammo with your wife's levergun.

My wife has a Henry Golden Boy .22LR that she's had since last year July and hasn't shot it yet.
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And you're still sitting here typing? Step back from the keyboard and take it out shooting! Those Henrys are tons of fun, very slick lever system.

For .22 pistols, there aren't a ton of new/good/affordable DA revolvers. However, the Ruger Single Six or Bearcat (single-action .22 cowboy guns) go for $325 or so new, and as low as $200 used. Both are extremely durable guns, most well-made.

For semi-auto .22s, I like the Ruger MkII, though the new S&W 22a is a steal at $185. The new S&W is a dang good gun, so long as you enjoy the very sleek/modern look it has. The Ruger fits my hand a little better, and has a more classic Luger-like look.

-MV
 
Dont KO the Sigs to soon. They are great pistols (I dont own one, so Im not bias) and keep a look out for the Certified Pre Owned Sigs.
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Don't worry, I won't. I'm just thinking that buying a new one right now would not be the best thing. Any place in southern Wisconsin that would have certified pre-owned ones to look at?

MatthewVanitas: I'll have to look into more of the .22s. I could spend so much time looking that I'll never make a decision. :D
 
Since you took the BP class, hopefully the instructor teaching the selecting a handgun lesson had the ethics to be brand neutral. You probably also know that the .22 is high on the instructor's recommendation list for a first handgun. Should you opt for a centerfire, and consider a revolver, you would more flexibility with a .357 magnum since you could also shoot .38 spl.

I like the idea of pushing the .22, but not to the exclusion of a gun that is capable of self defense. Accordingly, you could opt for 2 guns; a .22 revolver, or semi for under 300 and a centerfire handgun TBD.

Or, you could opt for a semi-auto with an available .22 conversion kit. I will probably miss a few, but 1911's, most Glocks, Beretta 92/96, CZ - any more?

I know someone with the CZ, IIRC, he has less than 600 invested and has a 2 caliber Semi auto that is reliable and darned accurate in both. I don't have a CZ myself, but I've shot his.

Whatever marque or brand, just be sure the gun fits you, and you'll be willing to practice with it.
 
gwine,
you may need to settle for two handguns :eek: First I would get a .22lr auto loader they are just fun to shoot. See where that takes you, by then you will have a better idea for the next :)
 
I concur w/ jibjab's above statements.

You already have a shotgun that you could use for home defense if needed, so get a .22LR to go and have fun at the range.

The perennial favorites of the last half-century are the Ruger MkII (or the MkI or MkIII), and the Browning Buckmark. Basic models of both of those can be had in the low $200s. The S&W 22a is an up-and-comer that's getting good reviews, and is priced to move at under $200.

I advise you go fondle each of those three, and buy the one you like. Shoot it for a month or two, and then decide if you want a S&W 10 or something other than a S&W 10 (no, I'm not biased...)

Just my tuppence and a ha'penny.

-MV
 
Ruger Semi-auto pistols.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Best value for the money in semi-auto pistol
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You might want to read up on CZ;)
 
You get what you pay for if you go after the guns that have earned a solid reputation over time. If you go for collectors editions, or fancy extras, balance starts to shift, but its about what is worth it to you I guess.
 
A family member recently bought a new automobile (I'll leave the make/model out). It has an award-winning V6 engine, heated leather power seats, tilt/telescope steering wheel, 6-disc in dash CD player, xenon headlights, sunroof, huge trunk, and comfortable back seat. She loves it! I drove it for 20 minutes and couldn't wait to get out. For the life of me, I could NOT get comfortable in it. The seat has all kinds of adjustments and no matter what I did, I didn't like driving the car.

Moral of the story: try before you buy! Do not go in with the expectation that you'll like a specific handgun. I considered a 1911, but the only one the shop had in my price range had the most terrible sights in the world. I won't tell you what I own, or what else I looked at since that is your decision to make. Pick them up, hold them, aim them. Buy what feels natural. Then worry about the caliber, finish, etc.

Good luck!
 
BVD

As the old commercial goes, Next to me I like BVD or stainless steel. I have a s&w model 66 .357 stainless steel revolver I've had over 25 years. I've carried it very concealed next to my skin in warm summer weather. All that salty sweat and handleing and it looks like it did when I bought it. And I could sell it for more than I paid for it. For an auto, the mafia, then the Mossad, and now the U.S. Army took up the Beretta. But I think you need to seriously consider starting with a 22lr for shared cheap ammo. You also can get to be able to hit a target without flinching. There's plenty of time to go hog wild buying more guns later. But keeping the variety of calibers minimized and sticking with common inexpensive caliber types of ammo can buy you additional guns.
 
.380 pistols is about the only thing I have owned alot of......they are below:

Walther PPK/S (new Smith import), purchased this gun new for $450 - looks great but didnt function so well. Ejection problems, feeding problems.....finally the gun decided to let loose of its chambered round indicator and I decided that was it......broken and malfunctioning is no way to own a handgun. I do not believe all these guns are as bad as mine....but mine was a turd. When it did funtion it was accurate. I enjoyed the "looks" of the gun and the size but believe it was a little on the heavy side.

Sig Sauer P232, purchased this gun used for $350 (typically go for $450 to $550 new) - this gun was everything the Walther wasnt. It was reliable feeding everything I tossed at it. It never failed while I owned it, overall a great defensive gun. Its just objective because I didnt actually weigh them but it seemed lighter and easier to conceal then the Walther. I found the sights to be easier to acquire then the Walthers and it was equally as accurate. In fact I cant find a flaw with the gun at all.....its a great piece.

Bersa Thunder .380, purchased new for $200 - despite the great luck I had with the Sig P232 I would have to say this guns my favorite....why would I pick a cheap gun over a Sig? Its cheap, thats why. You EXPECT a Sig to be good....and your really disappointed if it isnt. This gun has proved to be almost everything the Sig is but at half the price. This gun has been reliable, accurate and great fun. It has standard American-like controls....which most prefer over your average Euro pistol. It also has adjustable sights....yeah, adjustable sights on a $200 pocket gun. Seems well made, great size and weight - fits well in my hand. Whats not to like......the only gripe I have....and this is reaching - the finish on the slide. I have the duo-tone model. I think the black finish on the slide is not the best. I do believe this type of finish would require more attention if carried in a humid environment.
 
gwine,
you may need to settle for two handguns First I would get a .22lr auto loader they are just fun to shoot. See where that takes you, by then you will have a better idea for the next
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You know, I might actually need 3 handguns, a .22LR and a .38 revolver and a 9mm auto. :D You all crack me up - all I was looking for was one gun but I guess they're kind of like Lay's potato chips.

I did handle a CZ SP-01 at the store - it felt somewhat weird in my hands but I really think you have to get some range time before you can make a decision whether any gun will work out good.

I think what I will do now is make a spreadsheet of all the guns listed and do some more research on each on, as well as reading more material. I don't really know what to think about the new/used route. I've never had good success with cars but guns have a lot less parts to go wrong, and the only on-board computer is my little brain. Hopefully it won't blow a fuse anytime soon.

Thanks again for all the suggestions. When I get started making purchases I post pictures.
 
I wouldn't trust anything under 500$ in .45.
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What about a good 'ole Ruger P90? They can be had at 300 and below, and they're more accurate than many higher end 1911's, and they're reliable and durable as hell too.
 
I agree with a sweet spot for defensive weapon $400 - about $700+ - 100.
These are for durable, reliable, fast shooting, easy cleaning long lasting
stuff. They are accurate enough and should last long.

For precision bullseye or competition, its from $700 - to sky is the limit.
They are for pin point accuracy, handcrafted guns that almost last
forever.

Be careful not to buy many different flatforms. Stay with 1 to 3 types
and practice, practice practice.!!

For revolvers, I stay with Smith and Wesson.

In my experience, once the price goes beyond $1200- $1500, depending
on your skill level, more expensive guns has very limited benefits.
Unless you're a very experience marksman, you can notice any difference.
 
Value is relative. The value of an item is what someone will pay for it. To me, a NIB glock isn't worth $300. Glocks are reliable, proven guns at a good price. The list of accolades is a mile long. But I just don't like them, they don't fit me, I don't like to touch them. No glock hating here, but value is subjective. At the same time, I would be willing to pay more for a number of guns.

To me on a student budget, a 2000 dollar custom 1911 is not getting what you pay for, because that is a TON of my yearly income. To a Fortune 500 CEO, it would be like me buying a box of .22 ammo. The dollar is worth a lot less to him than to me, so he is giving up a lot less and getting a good gun.

If the increase from a $900 Kimber to a $2500 Nighthawk is as big a jump to someone as it is to me, not worth even considering. To someone whose dollar is worth less, he is definately getting what he is paying for.

My 2/10 of a dime
 
You know, I might actually need 3 handguns, a .22LR and a .38 revolver and a 9mm auto. You all crack me up - all I was looking for was one gun but I guess they're kind of like Lay's potato chips.
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Put a zero in front of that. Perhaps two;)

I'm sure we can all chime in to help you justify any new purchase you're considering. Many of us have got gun-buying arguments down pat.
 
I'd say yes, more often than not. I can also agree with "somewhat," because of the issue on return prices, but I don't think I'll be selling anymore guns. I regret selling the few that I have sold in my life.

I have my own preferences. I usually wouldn't go under $300 used or new for an auto, $250 - $200 for a revolver. You can get some good deals sometimes at those prices, but you should know what you're doing if you're looking for deals.

I will always recommend that anyone who thinks that they even might want a Sig get their hands on one, and rent one at a range if possible... of course, I'm biased toward them, but they work every time you pull the trigger. That's the most important feature for me - reliability. At the same time, in my biased opinion, no other factory gun shoots like a Sig.

I guess I trust certain guns to do this more than others. Mainly Glocks, Sigs, Berettas, and S&W's from experience, but there are other guns that don't cost as much that work just as well. Ruger comes to mind, and one would be silly to ignore how happy the CZ crowd is with their pistols. I also have a Taurus revolver that works flawlessly.

Really, it's all about what you like and can afford. I guess my only real advice is don't be too cheap... Like pax said, you won't get what you don't pay for. Unfortunately, I say that with a little experience. :D

You won't find anything nice for $120 NIB, that's for sure.
 
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