Do you like double action semiautos?

[Blakenzy]

This is just me sharing my thoughts, not to be taken too seriously so don't get upset, but I believe that the worst thing that you can put on a autoloader is a double action trigger. It is just plain counterproductive. To take a design that can work safely and efficiently with a single action trigger and slap on something that is harder to shoot well with and that to an extent diminishes practical accuracy is difficult to justify.

For revolvers a double action trigger is a necessary or essencial "evil", at least if you want to be able to squeeze out shots in rapid succesion, but such an artifact is of little to no use on an autoloader. Would putting a double action trigger on any firearm (other than a revolver) such as a make sense? Think of a lever gun or any other gun with an exposed hammer, and then put a double action trigger on that. Doesn't look right, huh?

On top of that, double action triggers on semiautos are usually horrible. A nice, well built S&W revolver can have a fantastic DA trigger, which is a joy to shoot even in DA mode, but I have yet to come across an autoloader which has a DA trigger that feels similar. Triggers are heavy, gritty, creapy, placed too far forward to comfortably reach, and heavy (yes, I said heavy twice).

The need or want for a DA trigger on an autoloader is something beyond me. I suspect that it might make wheelgun fans feel all warm and fuzzy inside, and thats OK, but other than that it is a step backward IMHO. Maybe a DA trigger on an automatic could find a genuine niche if you have misfires alot, due to hard primers or something, but a better solution would be to get more reliable ammo.

Some DA semiautos can be carried safely C&L ala 1911 style, and that's very good, I like those. Then there are certain pistols, such as the Beretta 92F which only has a decocker. You are forced to use a DA trigger pull on your first (and probably most critical) shot. That is why I cannot bring myself to like that otherwise fine pistol and many others like it. And now DAO semiautomatic pistols are appearing on the scene. Now these are an abomination. I can't see the beauty or practicality in a DAO semi auto. If you want a DAO handgun get a nice revolver.

Of course, there's the "Double action is safer than single action" argument, but is it really?

Sorry about the long post. Feel free to express your own point of view. I am anxious to read your replies fellow THRers

 

[Whirlwind06]

For the average Joe carrying a gun, which I am. I feel safer carrying a DAO auto. I'm not a door kicker. I'm not paid or trained to run towards trouble, or the sound of gun fire.

If I ever had to draw my pistol the long heavy trigger pull, might mean that I don't have ND (we have all seen trained LEOs have a NDs under stress) And if I did have to shoot in self defense I doubt I will notice the trigger pull at all. I spend a lot of my range time practicing that first long trigger pull.

 

[tnieto2004]

I prefer DA/SA pistols

 

[Sniper X]

I prefer single action autos for 3 gun and carry but have a few DA/SA handguns and still love them too. But a DAO pistol...not for me, but unlike you I am well trained. In fact....."danger" is my middle name...

 

[Jack19]

Not really. To me, they've long been an answer in search of a question. Well, what they really are is the gun manufacturers' answer to perceived liability problems on the part of government agencies. The public got told they were more "safe" and here we are.

Give me a single action or a Glock and I'm happy; the trigger pull is always the same.

 

[CWL]

Own me a couple but I'm too used to the crisp trigger-pull of my 1911s to ever get back into DAOs.

 

[AK103K]

I like them all, and have carried and shoot them all, and right now carry a DA P229. I dont see what the big fat hairy deal is, unless you just cant shoot and its something to blame, other than yourself.

 

[Ala Dan]

Another vote for the DA/SA semi-auto's pistols~!

FWIW, I made my living carrying a West German .45 caliber
SIG-SAUER P220A for a very long, long time. It NEVER once
let me down, NOT EVER~!

 

[M2 Carbine]

I've got several DAO pistols but I don't like shooting DA in any handgun, although I do practice once in a while.

I want to shoot as accurately as possible and it isn't happening with the typical DAO pistol.

I don't mind DA/AS but unless the gun has a very small hammer I cock the hammer first shot anyhow. I don't even think about it.

 

[Walkalong]

DAO or DA/SA pistols bite. The SA/DA 24/7 is OK.

 

[AK103K]

I actually find my DA groups are tighter than my SA groups, revolver or auto, and especially with heavy recoiling rounds. I think its because you pay more attention to the front sight as you shoot and the let off is more of a surprise with less anticipation.

 

[MCgunner]

You can shoot the X ring out of a B27 if you practice DA. It's not hard and it's fun, but it takes practice.

This is just me sharing my thoughts, not to be taken too seriously so don't get upset, but I believe that the worst thing that you can put on a autoloader is a double action trigger. It is just plain counterproductive.

At the range, in bullseye or other games, sure, I agree. But, in the real world, where we have to safely carry a gun that's ready for action with the pull of a trigger, I find DA guns hard to beat and a DAO is the ONLY way I'll go for pocket carry, or DA revolver of course.

With a DA gun, if you want a single action shot, all you have to do is cock the hammer. Rarely do I bother with that, though, as I am quite familiar with DA and the DA/SA transition. In larger guns, I like decock only DAs, but in a pocket I want DAO. Also, there is only a slide release poking out of a DAO gun, which makes it slicker to carry with no safeties or other do dads to poke you in the love handles. But, I still like a DA gun for belt carry, or DA revolver. Actually, I find myself carrying a .357 Magnum revolver when I wear IWB more often than not. I've got a couple of DA larger guns in 9 and .45ACP, but I'm just a revolver guy I guess and I really like the .357 Magnum cartridge in a medium frame gun.

Whatever floats your boat. If you can't shoot DA or don't want to put in the time to learn, you're sure limiting your choices. But, there are choices out there. Everyone likes different, why there are so many choices in the first place.

 

[Blakenzy]

OK, so there are people out there that like DA on a semiauto. To each his own I guess. What I would like some one to explain to me is why are the DA triggers on these pistols so poor. Maybe I just have bad luck but every DA pistol I have tried has a very uncomfortable first trigger pull. It's as if the manufacturers don't think its important to have a nice, smooth pull because it ¡s only the first shot, and the rest will be in fired in SA. Also there's the issue of most triggers placed so far from the grip that you can barely reach it with the tip of your finger. Combine that with a heavy trigger pull and that first shot is almost imposible to get off accurately. Is it not posible to make a DA trigger on a pistol as good as they are on some revolvers ?

 

[M2 Carbine]

AK103K
I dont see what the big fat hairy deal is, unless you just cant shoot and its something to blame, other than yourself.

I can shoot DA fair, I just don't like to do it.

DAO .380 Sphinx (the pasters are the aiming point, gun shoots low/left)
10 yards
Two hands.
Blue, slow fire.
Red, faster fire.
Green, rapid fire.

 

[Texas9]

Well...

I have 2 DA/SA pistols (the Px4 and the 92FS), and the DA pull isn't that bad FOR ME. You can put a "D" mainspring (spring from 92D) in a 92FS which results in a much easier trigger pull. I don't know for sure, but I'd guess you can do the same for the Px4. I will do both.

In other news, I don't like DAO autos. Well, I DIDN'T. Not until I shot my brother's Springfield XD9. That thing was a dream. The DA trigger didn't feel like any DA trigger I've ever pulled (wheelguns included). I have a sick need for a hammer, but that thing was amazing. I couldn't miss.

Just for grins, try an XD one of these days. Then come back and tell us what you think.

That said, there ain't a THING wrong with a good 1911. That'll pretty much solve any problem

 

[DawgFvr]

I prefer DAO pistols myself. I love my Taurus Millenium PT145 and Kel Tec P3AT. Nice thing about DAO is that I use the same actions when firing my revolvers...nothing like uniformity!

 

[Shadan7]

The two I own...

...are just fine. The Steyr S9 has a 'pre-cocked' camber which makes it a relatively short and smooth action. The Rohrbaugh is long, but very buttery smooth (as it should be on a gun that price). For pocket carry, which I do always, the Rohrbaugh's DAO is the only way to go on an auto.

Now, neither of these is a target pistol. The S9 is a good shooter at even long pistol ranges, and the R9 surprising for a small gun with no sights. But that's not what they're for - they're self-defense guns, meant to be used at such ranges.

There are always trade-offs between platforms and calibers. We each decide what we need a given gun for, and then choose what seems to us to meet our needs best.

7

 

[Confederate]

Cocked and locked is the only way to go.

There are people who are so fast with a gun that they can draw and shoot you before you can double action shoot your pistol. In the stress of a moment, you can forget to disconnect the safety, of course, but with enough practice it's not a problem.

At the first sign of trouble, you should click off the safety and then keep your finger off the trigger. If you have a double action, you should make sure the safety isn't engaged, then put your finger on the trigger guard.

 

[AK103K]

Looks good there M2

What I would like some one to explain to me is why are the DA triggers on these pistols so poor.

Most quality DA pistols have nice DA triggers, both autos and revolvers. (leave Ruger out of this )What do you mean by "poor"?

I think a lot of the complaints are from people who dont (or wont) shoot them, or practice with them. It takes a little practice, but so does anything. If your a DA revolver shooter,(who shoots DA) its no big deal, as you already have the muscle tone and skills necessary, and the transition is very easy. The biggest plus is, if you shoot DA, you can pretty much shoot ANYTHING well, something that isnt true of SA only shooters. (M2 excepted, like it or not )

 

[Headless]

DA/SA semi's for me - my beretta 96's double action pull is pathetically long I'd not have bought it if that was all it had to offer me. I much prefer my s&w 659's double action. That said...once the first shot is out, they go SA at which point they are quite comparable though the edge still goes to the s&w in the 'clean breaking trigger feel' category.

 

[M2 Carbine]

Not that I want one but I shot a Taurus Millennium Pro 9mm last week.

A friend brought a co-worker, that hadn't shot in years, to my place so I could get him up to speed.

When I heard he had bought the Taurus Millennium Pro I was prepared to hate it.
A few years ago I shot the Millennium. The worst DAO trigger I've ever seen.

The Pro has a strange trigger. A long trigger pull with no resistance at all, I thought the trigger bar had broke, then a pretty easy smooth pull.
The gun was right accurate to.

After a couple hours of us all shooting and giving the man some tips, I ran him through the TX CHL shooting qualification.

He shot a 249/250 with his new little DAO pistol.

 

[10-Ring]

I have 10's of 1000's of rounds through DA/SA & DAO guns and find them ideal and simple to use.

 

[browningguy]

No. Cocked and locked, the way Himself, JMB, intended.

 

[jad0110]

The following are my personal opinions/tastes:

The biggest plus is, if you shoot DA, you can pretty much shoot ANYTHING well, something that isnt true of SA only shooters.

I agree, that's why my practice gun is a DA 22 revolver. Shooting DA really does wonders for improving control over your trigger finger, both in the pull and the release.

Clearly, my favorite is the DA revolver pull, particularly S&W. I've gotten to the point where they are the easiest guns for me to shoot, and shoot well. They are so predictable that I know precisely when the hammer is going to fall. I don't even notice the weight or length of the pull anymore. Come to think of it, I'm not sure if I remember how to shoot SA .

My next favorite would be the SA 1911. I have a Springfield XD9, but I have never really warmed up to the odd lump in the middle of the trigger pull. I'll probably keep the XD9, it is pretty sweet, but I am tempted to swap it for said 1911.

What little experience I have with DAO semi autos is that I'd be open to trying more in the future. Not as nice as a good S&W DA pull, but certainly doable for me. Thing is I don't currently have in DAO autos on my wish list.

I can say with 100% honesty that I abhor DA/SA autos. The initial longer, heavier DA pull is gauranteed to screw up my rythm everytime going into the SA follow-ups. Though I do understand that it is, like anything, an aquired taste that many people like.

 

[Gator]

NO!

Horrible things..........