Do you trust the 1911 for combat?
- Thread starter Dr. Loomis
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AKElroy
Member
Making a real life decision regarding this discussion, I had to create a scenario to see what I would do. Here it is: You are in a hotel, 2nd floor above the lobby. You hear A LOT of shooting and screaming. You can grab ONLY one gun, and must choose between a 1911 +1 loaded 8 rnd mag, or a G 19 w/ +1 loaded 15 rnd.
I love my 1911 & shoot it really well, but in that scenario I'm grabbing the Glock.
I love my 1911 & shoot it really well, but in that scenario I'm grabbing the Glock.
johnnylaw53
Member
I think I'll grab my snub get on the phone call the police and be ready for anyone that migh try to come into my room. In the above scenario what the cops that should be on scenc fast don't need is someone running around with a weapon in his hand that is not one of the bad guys since they won't know that at the time. Several years ago a deal went bad and shots were fired in a motel some guy came out of a room with a gun in his hand since we been working the deal for two days the room he came out of wasn't a suspected room and the Lt in charge was the first guy that seen him and told him to get back in his room which he did. Hate to think what would of happen if one of the newer cops was the first to see the guy/
be safe
be safe
AKElroy
Member
I never said I was leaving the room; I would be on the horn with the cops tightly gripping the Glock trained on the front door.
Interesting thread since I did not come to the 1911 as a chronic addict. I have polymer guns and I have a couple of revolvers and several 1911s. I am also not a policeman or a soldier. However, what I have noticed over the last several years is that a quality 1911 shoots better than anythig else I have shot and is as reliable as anything else I own.
In that case, as far as shootability, comfort and accuracy, I'd take a 1911 and go from there. Shot placement and big bullets win out for me over lots and lots of ammo. With that said, paramount is reliability. And I still haven't been able to make my Les Baer or Kimber fumble, even though these might be on separate sides of the gulf distinguishing 1911s. In just about any scenario that I can rationalize being in, I'd be hard pressed to think that a 1911 and an 870 with seven double "O's" in reserve couldn't take care of it.
In that case, as far as shootability, comfort and accuracy, I'd take a 1911 and go from there. Shot placement and big bullets win out for me over lots and lots of ammo. With that said, paramount is reliability. And I still haven't been able to make my Les Baer or Kimber fumble, even though these might be on separate sides of the gulf distinguishing 1911s. In just about any scenario that I can rationalize being in, I'd be hard pressed to think that a 1911 and an 870 with seven double "O's" in reserve couldn't take care of it.
kanewpadle
Member
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Not me. I would grab BOTH guns. The Glock would go in the waistband. The 1911 in my right hand.
A friend of mine is a patrolman in a nice suburb of Dallas. He carries a Kimber 1911 as his duty weapon. He said that if he were in Southside Chicago he'd want double the ammo per magazine. If you are thinking about a rougher tour - you might want to think 40 or 9mm.
The above is not my opinion but it makes sense.
The above is not my opinion but it makes sense.
mljdeckard
Member
I would grab neither. If the scenario involves time to choose, it's always a long gun. My 1911 is what I use when I don't have time to choiose, and I don't expect it to do my rifle's job.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
In that scenario, I'd be equally well-armed...and just as equally unhappy with either because I'm going to barricade the door, train the gun on it...and wait for the fireworks to end.
Abandoning your sconce and entering into a fray that's already in motion is:
A...A very good way to get shot all to Helen Gone, and:
B...A very good way to land in jail on an aggravated murder or attempted murder charge, assuming that you survive A.
We don't choose a sidearm in order to get into a gunfight. We choose a sidearm in order to get us home alive...and engaging in "combat" is not the way to achieve that end.
AKElroy
Member
Agreed. As stipulated, I would not be leaving the room. I was trying to create a scenario where one might want more rounds, and an idiot proof platform from which to launch them.
I travel quite a bit, I have a 1911 sitting in the safe at home along with 30+ other various rifles, pistols, shotty's & wheelguns. I could have grabbed any of them for today's 300 mile roadtrip; but as I type this, only my XDm .40 w/ 17rds of DoubleTap 165 gr GoldDots, Streamlight TLR2 tac light & spare mag sits comfortingly on the nightstand of my motel room.
When I travel, I naturally get paranoid, and I go all tactical with my weapon choice.
EOD Guy in VA
Member
Get one of the new HK45s.
I did, love it.
I did, love it.
Gunfighter123
Member
Check into a Para-Ordnance P-14 --------- it is a 14 round .45acp ---- I have used Para-Ordnances in Action Competition matches for about 20 years and they are VERY dependable and accurate weapons.
M2 Carbine
member
Yes.
No.
.
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Of the 12-13 I've owned on 4-5 of them were reliable enough for me to trust them out of the box. The two I have now a SA Ultra Compact with new internals from Wilson Combat. And a S&W Gunsite yes I do trust. My Ultra Compact has about 1000 trouble free rounds through it. The Gunsite spit it's mag release out of the right side of the gun a week or so ago after about 1200 rounds. The part I was able to find I took to my gunsmith.
He said from the looks of the crack it looked like the part (MIM) had not been properly heat treated all the way through. It was flawed inside. The part which of course could not be seen through just a visual inspection was an accident waiting to happen. I've had hardened parts break on me before also. And had good MIM parts. But my mag release is now an Ed Brown hardened version. As are all the other internals. As I said my Ultra Compact is all Wilson Combat inside.
I won't carry my Gunsite until it has shown itself to be trustworthy again. Meaning several hundred rounds without a single problem. All of my Sigs, H&K's, and modern auto's are 100%. My experiance is as a whole 1911's are not as reliable out of the box as most modern quality guns. But they can be made that way with some TLC. Of course YMMV.
He said from the looks of the crack it looked like the part (MIM) had not been properly heat treated all the way through. It was flawed inside. The part which of course could not be seen through just a visual inspection was an accident waiting to happen. I've had hardened parts break on me before also. And had good MIM parts. But my mag release is now an Ed Brown hardened version. As are all the other internals. As I said my Ultra Compact is all Wilson Combat inside.
I won't carry my Gunsite until it has shown itself to be trustworthy again. Meaning several hundred rounds without a single problem. All of my Sigs, H&K's, and modern auto's are 100%. My experiance is as a whole 1911's are not as reliable out of the box as most modern quality guns. But they can be made that way with some TLC. Of course YMMV.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Then one would serve you about as well as the other, unless the combatants on the ground floor are Seal Team 6, bent on annihilation of all who dwell in the building...in which case, you're dead anyway, regardless of your pistol's capacity.
loop
Member
My step-mom is from Kenya. She's killed more men than most soldiers because she was left in charge of the house during the Mau Mau rebellion. She noticed one night that all the servants were straggling away so she sat on her front porch with a .303 Enfield. In the morning there were eight bodies in the front yard and she was still sitting on the porch cradling her .303.
She introduced me to a "friend" from South Africa who is a mercenary. He asked me to help him find a sidearm because the U.S. govt had relieved him of his when he came in country. He wanted a Norinco 1911. He gave several reasons. One was because they work. Another was because they were truer to 1911 specs than Colt. Yet another was the metal is better than anything else on the market. His last was, as near as I can recall, "I've never been in a tango that took a second mag at pistol ranges."
The man killed people for a living. He was quite specific. A Norinco 1911 in .45.
I asked how many times he'd depended on his sidearm to get himself out of a jam. He said three. He also said that after you kill a half dozen the rest tend to fade away.
I enjoyed our evening of conversation on a patio in SW Missouri. "Mom" said he was halfway to Kenya by now in the morning.
People kill for different reasons. I just want to protect the innocent if the unthinkable happens. But, I know a guy who kills for a living. He not only wants to carry a 1911, he wants a Norinco.
FWIW
She introduced me to a "friend" from South Africa who is a mercenary. He asked me to help him find a sidearm because the U.S. govt had relieved him of his when he came in country. He wanted a Norinco 1911. He gave several reasons. One was because they work. Another was because they were truer to 1911 specs than Colt. Yet another was the metal is better than anything else on the market. His last was, as near as I can recall, "I've never been in a tango that took a second mag at pistol ranges."
The man killed people for a living. He was quite specific. A Norinco 1911 in .45.
I asked how many times he'd depended on his sidearm to get himself out of a jam. He said three. He also said that after you kill a half dozen the rest tend to fade away.
I enjoyed our evening of conversation on a patio in SW Missouri. "Mom" said he was halfway to Kenya by now in the morning.
People kill for different reasons. I just want to protect the innocent if the unthinkable happens. But, I know a guy who kills for a living. He not only wants to carry a 1911, he wants a Norinco.
FWIW
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1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Loop...This quote is in reference to your post.
"A man who's had a tiger by the tail knows 5 or 6 more things about tigers than one who hasn't."
--Will Rogers--
"A man who's had a tiger by the tail knows 5 or 6 more things about tigers than one who hasn't."
--Will Rogers--
NGIB
Member
Actually picked up my 1st Norinco 1911 over the weekend and took it to the range last evening for it's first test run. Operated flawlessly and it will join the rotation...
AKElroy
Member
See, this is exactly my concern. That stuff happens ALL THE TIME. In which case, I want the XDm.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Yep. I gotta fight'em off at least once a month myself...
Teufelhunden
Member
+1. I also carry a SIG 220 on duty, and 4 extra mags. Your comfort level with a weapon and ability to hit with it are far more important than magazine capacity. Hitting with one .45 is far more effective than missing with four .40 shots out of a higher capacity gun. Find what works for you--caliber is a secondary concern (assuming you're selecting from major calibers).
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skeeter_08
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IMHO, carrying extra mags and being able to perform a tactical / speed reload with training and practice negate the 7-8 round capacity of the 1911, or the 8 round capacity of the Sig P220, which along with the 1911 is another .45 ACP that I own and can recommend. BTW, Thank You for your Military Service to this Country! - skeeter_08
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