Does anybody own 20" AR-15s anymore?

[Nightcrawler]

I know carbines, and nowadays, M4 clones are all the rage. I find the mock M4 carbines a tad funny; that contour in the barrel is meant for an M203 grenade launcher, you know, not something most of us have to worry about. But, it does save weight.

Does anybody acutally own a 20" AR-15 anymore? I think one of the big reasons for their drop in popularity is the insistence of all the major manufacturers to produce only heavy A2 barrels, making the rifles weigh more than they should. I once owned a Bushmaster carbine with an A2 barrel; it weighed noticably more than the 20" M16A1s we have in the Guards.

Also, I think with the Urban Rifle craze, people buy carbines with ideas of using them in close quarters battle. But, from my own training, an M16 will work. Many shooters insist that the carbine is necessary for indoors, though. Ironically, many of these same shooters have 18 and 20" barreled shotguns. *shrug*

In any case, I guess perhaps I'm past my carbine phase. I might get a FAL carbine, but am quite happy with the full rifle. And you get a lot more out of 5.56mm with the 20" barrel, especially if you do long-ranged shooting (again, something not really in tune with the current Tactical Urban Rifle Craze).

So, I have to ask. Anybody out there own a plane jane, 20" AR-15 anymore, or are they limited to DCM competition only?

 

[Razor]

I do.

 

[The Plainsman]

Me too.

 

[Nightcrawler]

Well, let's see some pictures, then. I've got broadband, let's make the most of it!

 

[Rockrivr1]

When shopping for my first AR-15 I went back and forth on what I wanted to use it for. When Competition ended up being the primary reason, I went with the 20" A2. Yep, it's heavy to say the least.

If I had decided on another reason besides competition, I would of went with the M4gery with an A3 detachable carry handle.

 

[Nightcrawler]

Heavy?

That might mean different things to you than it does to me. How much does a 20" AR-15A2 weigh, anyway?

 

[ACP230]

Some target ARs, or clones, weigh up to 13-14 pounds.
My 20 inch AR clone has been reworked for match shooting but it isn't anywhere near that heavy.

 

[BigG]

I think the 20" is the best. Mine are A1 type bbls so no muzzle heaviness.

 

[Onslaught]

Around here, the only way to get a 20" AR is to order it. The shelves of all the dealers are FULL of the M4geries.

I admit that my AR is a Carbine, but it's a true pre-ban. If it weren't, then I'd have no use for the "fake" telescoping stock, since they weigh more than the A2 stock.

But FWIW, I do not have the M4 profile. Mine's a fluted HBar, which gives me nearly identical weight savings, without all the contour changes.

My buddy's got a 20" free floated flat top HBar. I know that "heavy" is a relative term, but compared to mine, his feels twice as heavy.

To each his own, and if you've got a 20" A2 or a 14.5" M4, it's all good... But for me personally, when I choose a 20", 9 pound rifle, it will most likely be .308.

 

[Dave T]

My favorite is the original (civilian version is the SP1 Colt). Even with its 20" barrel it is light and handy. With the original 55g bullet it is flat shooting and has reasonable ballistic performance. Most every thing they've done to the AR since then has been down hill, but that just my opinion. YMMV.

 

[Gewehr98]

Since you asked, Nightcrawler...

Pre-'94 Colt Competition HBAR, 20" barrel:

 

[SodaPop]

I won't go under a 16inch barrel.

I have the 20inch Dinosaur.

 

[Steve Smith]

Here's one of mine...

In another thread. http://thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=94085

That's a 15 pound gun right there.

 

[jem375]

My DPMS 20" bull barrel weight starts out at 9.5 lbs....shepherd scope, and full mag.........probably around 11 lbs......just guessing on the weight............

 

[Rockrivr1]

Your right, Heavy is a relative term depending on whose using it for what.

By the time I balance my 20" A2 it will be close to 15 lbs or so. I think that is on the more weighty side of ARs.

 

[BerettaNut92]

I only have a 18" shotgun because I'm prohibited from having a 14" barrel by law.

 

[Soap]

I know carbines, and nowadays, M4 clones are all the rage. I find the mock M4 carbines a tad funny; that contour in the barrel is meant for an M203 grenade launcher, you know, not something most of us have to worry about. But, it does save weight.

Most commercial 16" barrels have a heavy profile under the handguards. The M4 profile has a tapered barrel under the handguards, not unlike a standard A2 barrel. This saves a certain amount of weight. Plus the M4 profile handles much better for me.

 

[Art Eatman]

:banghead: That's our own lil Skunk. Brings shotguns to a rifle gatherin'. Shows up at a gunfight with a single-blade Barlow.

I wound up with a 20" Bushmaster match target. 9.5 pounds with scope and 20-rounder. Bought it on account of it was cheep-cheep, but wouldn't have paid even that much if it were a short-barrelled critter.

20" is already handicapping that little cartridge.

Art

 

[Nightcrawler]

Okay, question. Why are all the current AR-15s heavy barrels? I carried an M16A2 in basic training; it was heavier than the A1, yeah, but it didn't weigh as much as my FAL does.

So why all the HBARs? Both 20" and 16" barrels would be lighter overall if they were just a tad bit thinner. On a non-match rifle, there's no real reason for the heavy barrel, is there?

Look at the Armalite AR-180B. 20" barrel, but the thing weighs less than a 16" postban AR-15 carbine.

It seems the AR-15 line is a lot heavier than it needs to be, and that's why people are turned off by the 20". You're right, if I'm going to lug a 9lb gun, it's going to be a .308.

There's no reason a 20" AR-15 should weigh more than eight pounds, unless it's specifically a heavy barreled match model.

Another question: Do all of these HBARs have the same barrel profile as the M16A2, or are they heavier than even that?

 

[BigG]

20" is already handicapping that little cartridge.

Ain't dat the truth!

 

[firestar]

I used to have a 16" bull bbl AR-15 but I sold it because it just never felt right to me. I thought that ARs just weren't my cup of tea.

One day I was in my favorite gun store and the owner showed me an Armalite AR-15 that someone ordered. It had the 20" thin bbl and the triangular handgaurd, I noticed how much nicer it balanced and pointed. This was a real rifle, not some tactical toy! I had to give AR-15s another chance.

I now have a pre-ban vietnam era Colt SP1 with the 20" thin bbl, triangular handgaurd, ect. It is so nice I can hardly see why people fool with them. That triangular handgaurd is one of the most confortable for grips I have ever felt on an assult rifle. Why did they do away with it?

 

[Gewehr98]

Nightcrawler, that's a darned good question.

I know that Colt of mine has a decidedly heavy profile underneath the handguard, the barrel gets heavier, it's 1" in diameter as it gets closer to the delta ring.

Bull barrels exist in all the shooting disciplines, I guess AR-15 variants are no different in that respect.

Pretty sad when the poodleshooter weighs as much as the M1 Garand sitting next to it in the safe, ain't it?

 

[Navy joe]

One day I'll own a shorty but with a conventional stock! Right now I am on my second 20" A2 config. If you find the AR heavy, play with a M-1A for awhile, or maybe that's just because my M-1A tips the scales at 12+lbs.

Steve, Love the cleaning stand, one of those things that is so elegantly simple I shoulda thought of it a long time ago. Time to make one.

 

[Gewehr98]

Skunkabilly...




(Methinks the boy has multiple THR threads open in multiple browser windows, truthfully)

 

[Smoke]

I got the 20". Olyimpic Arms, DCM Profile - PCR-7.

I like it better than the shortys. Just me.

And my choice for CQB is the 12 gauge. My AR will be down the list of choices for any confrontation within 25 yards.