Does this make it sound like CC'ing would be legal?

[Greg528iT]

You say you want your carry, since you pick your child up in a bad neighborhood. Where do you pick him/her up from? A School??? I don't know Michigan law, but I'll bet you are not allowed to carry on school property either, by law, not just policy.

Find a secure location for your carry piece inside your car. If your holster is belt looped, remove it BEFORE exiting the car. Maybe a paddle holster is applicable.

 

[smalls]

Greg, we can carry in the car on school property. So if he doesn't leave his vehicle with the firearm, he's good.

Also, one of my jobs has a very strict no firearms policy. There's no "maybe this, or that" in the handbook. I carry too and from my job, and it stays in my car while I'm on the clock.
It's really not that hard to take off your holster before you get out of your car.

 

[Psa1m144]

An inquiry for clarification may bring a response that makes the prohibition more explicit - sometimes silence is golden.

Agreed.

I care more about my safety that I do about the possibility that I am misreading their policy. I would carry in this situation. Some may say that losing your job will be the worst case scenario, but that is a risk I would take when losing your life in an office shooting or an attempted robbery in the parking garage would be worse.

 

[Owen Sparks]

Again I ask, has your employer ever asked to search your car?

Have they ever searched ANYONE'S car where you work? And if so was it random or did they have a good reason to believe that the person had drugs or some other contraband?

Random searches are very unpopular in private employment.

 

[Bobson]

ForumSurfer nailed it in Post #5, IMO. The policy is too poorly written for you to be sure what the meaning is.

If it were my job, I would either specifically ask, or just not carry. Note: I fully expect that if you do ask for clarification, you'll be told that you may not carry on company property.

 

[Zoogster]

Self defense while working for many large corporations can readily result in termination.

Companies don't care about your life, if a robber, boyfriend/husband of a coworker, former employee, etc comes in and kills you then they have no liability.
If you defend yourself in an entirely legal manner they can still be sued over what an employee employed by them and on the job did.
You could also misuse the firearm and they could be sued especially if it is policy to allow workers firearms, while they cannot be sued over the misuse of a firearm by others.


All of it boils down to money, your death would cost them nothing, while your self-defense or misuse of a firearm could cost them a lot. They would rather you die than cost them any money.

The only way to fix the issue is to get court decisions or legislation that makes an employer liable for making an employee unable to provide for their own defense, if they fail to protect them. Then the decision would no longer be liability vs no liability, but one of choosing what type of liability they wish to deal with (and as a result more choosing to allow concealed carry.)

 

[Bobson]

They would rather you die than cost them any money.

The only way to fix the issue is to get court decisions or legislation that makes an employer liable for making an employee unable to provide for their own defense, if they fail to protect them. Then the decision would no longer be liability vs no liability, but one of choosing what type of liability they wish to deal with (and as a result more choosing to allow concealed carry.)

Good point - never seen/heard anyone put it that way. Has any legislation along these lines ever been proposed?

 

[Owen Sparks]

Zoogster is right, employees are expendable. You can be replaced far cheaper than settling a law suit.

 

[PigButtons]

[Quote:]
Originally Posted by Zoogster
They would rather you die than cost them any money.

The only way to fix the issue is to get court decisions or legislation that makes an employer liable for making an employee unable to provide for their own defense, if they fail to protect them. Then the decision would no longer be liability vs no liability, but one of choosing what type of liability they wish to deal with (and as a result more choosing to allow concealed carry.)

Good point - never seen/heard anyone put it that way. Has any legislation along these lines ever been proposed?
[/quote:]


Some states already have laws protecting employees' right to carry in their cars. Some have tried and failed. Alabama tried last year and it couldn't get out of committee.

 

[Bobson]

Some states already have laws protecting employees' right to carry in their cars.

Well that's great, provided you deliver pizza or mail for a living. I don't see it being much of a help being allowed a weapon in my vehicle if I work inside a building of some sort, like 90% of people. I wouldn't even be happy if a legislator in my state proposed or supported a bill like that. It would be like a slap in the face.

Also, just for future reference, the problem with your quote is the colon you included in each bracket. Leave the colons out and you're good to go.

 

[Owen Sparks]

The problem is not that you need your pistol at work but that you need it when you get home and might walk in on a burglar.

 

[Zoogster]

Yeah there is some states where a person could not even keep a firearm in their vehicle on company property. Disarming the person not only at work, but on their way to and from work.
A large percentage of the population also stop and do their shopping, pick things up, pick up kids, or go to recreational activities when leaving work. It is when they get things done before returning home for the day.
This is especially true for those that commute a long distance, or live away from the stores and denser population centers.
So if they don't have a gun at least in the vehicle they won't have one to put on when they go do all their other normal activities after work.
(While storage in vehicles of handguns is not recommended anyways, that just makes them available for theft and the arming of criminals, so the person wearing the gun the whole day is better.)
So they are unarmed for most of their time spent in public as it will be doing things after work, unarmed at work, unarmed when they leave and arrive at home, and unarmed during whatever distance they walk to and from their vehicles. Essentially they become disarmed at all the times they have the greatest potential of needing a firearm.

Which in the end makes their Concealed Carry license go almost unused most of the time, at least 5 + days a week, and most of the time when they are out in public.
In the end making the effect that permit has on safety almost nothing, providing little to no benefits in life to that individual or anyone else they could come to the aid of.

So work restrictions can effect a lot more than just the hours at work.

 

[Mainsail]

Well since this has turned into a ‘how to carry at work’ thread, here’s my advice.

Go to the Post Office (unarmed)
Get a handful of the free Priority Mail boxes
Stuff your handgun and spare mags inside the box along with some foam padding
Seal the box and write some address on it
Done

Even if your employer searches your car, they will not dare to open your mail. If you need the gun, it’s only a zip (built right into the box) pull away. It works better if you have a gun you don’t otherwise need so you can leave it sealed inside the box as long as necessary.

 

[aeriedad]

^ Very clever, bordering on brilliant.

 

[Owen Sparks]

^ Excelent! Opening someone elses mail is a federal offence.

I wonder if this technique would stop the police from finding a pistol during a routine search? Would they need something beyond the standard "I smell dope" catch-all excuse to open your mail?

 

[Bobson]

Yeah, that would work, but it would still break company policy (or break the law, depending where you work).

 

[Greg528iT]

I see 2 problems,
Accessability. If you are going to want it fast, you want it fast.
A box or package in your car is generally going to be visible. Visible boxed items are very tempting to thieves.

 

[aeriedad]

I see 2 problems,
Accessability. If you are going to want it fast, you want it fast.
A box or package in your car is generally going to be visible. Visible boxed items are very tempting to thieves.

So put the box under the seat. Can still get it pretty fast, and it's out of view.

 

[chhodge69]

I would have no problem quietly interpreting that policy in my favor. I would also use a deep concealment method to be sure I never had to have a discussion about it with the boss. Follow the letter of both the law and the policy.

 

[Mainsail]

I see 2 problems,
Accessability. If you are going to want it fast, you want it fast.
A box or package in your car is generally going to be visible. Visible boxed items are very tempting to thieves.

Then you shouldn't do it.

 

[thorazine]

Does this make it sound like CC'ing would be legal?

Why wouldn't it be legal?

Against company policy is one thing... against the law is another.


As long as they don't put up metal detectors and mind reading devices conceal carry away!

 

[Bobson]

The lack of ethics and general dishonesty in this thread is astounding, and frankly, pretty pathetic - IMO, about as far from being High Road as a thread filled with racism.

 

[Owen Sparks]

You could hide the box out of view under the seat but drive to and from work with it in your lap if you had to. You can also walk in and out of your home with it in hand. With a little practice and the sacrifice of a few boxes you could get reasonably fast. I tried this method with the one box I had. I tucked it under my left arm with the tab on the top corner. I also loosened up the perforations a little by scoring it with a razor blade. From this position I was able to unzip the box and draw the pistol within a couple or three seconds. Once that box is unziped it is sort of like drawing from a shoulder holster, you could even shoot through the bottom of the box if you had to. Again, you probably do not need your pistol at work, but that you might need it on the way home where you could get carjacked or at home where you might walk in on a burglar.

This method warrents further study.