Does your company policy prohibit you from carrying in your private vehicle?
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I work for a company that has those rules. Most chemical companies on the Gulf Coast have similar rules as far as I know. I work at our corporate office and they won't even let us keep guns in our cars though that is a shopping mall parking garage as well and not company property. The only time I have ever heard that our company has used that policy is for people who parked inside the fence line of one of our plants or were truck drivers. Refusing a search is grounds for firing also. If people do carry, they don't talk about it.
This is in Houston, TX also.
SADshooter, didn't Texas pass a law 2 years ago telling local governments they cannot restrict CHL holders? I am surprised a govt office has that rule.
I asked a manager once. He said he didn't want employees with guns nearby who could get pissed off. I still think that is stupid.
This is in Houston, TX also.
SADshooter, didn't Texas pass a law 2 years ago telling local governments they cannot restrict CHL holders? I am surprised a govt office has that rule.
I asked a manager once. He said he didn't want employees with guns nearby who could get pissed off. I still think that is stupid.
Standing Wolf
Member in memoriam
Baloney. My right to defend my life trumps an employer's right to control his property.
Libertyteeth
Member
I don't think it is inconsistent with libertarian principles to insist that people be able to carry firearms in their private vehicles in any parking lot, regardless of the wishes of the corporation. Limited liability corporations are increasingly destructive of liberty, in league with the government as they generally are.
THAT is the most encouraging statement I've heard yet regarding libertarianism. The acknowledgment that corporations and government are interwined hand in glove (to the detriment of individuals) is one that more libertarian types should recognize.
garyk/nm
Member
Yes, my company has that policy. No, I don't abide by it. New Mexico has a law regarding gun carry which says that your private vehicle is an extension of your home. No warrant, no search; and if fired, I know a couple of good attorneys. I keep seeing this "property rights" thing pop up in these discussions and my opinion is that state law trumps employer's property rights. And I am willing to put it to the test.
My company doesnt allow firearms to be carried in the building, but it specifically allows them to be left in personally owned vehicles, and provides secure storage for those who dont want to risk leaving a firearm in their car.
I work in Seattle, and to my knowledge noone has ever taken advantage of the offer of secure storage.
I work in Seattle, and to my knowledge noone has ever taken advantage of the offer of secure storage.
LiquidTension
Member
When I started working at my current job three years ago, I was the only one there with a CWP. Now, everyone in the company has one 
Of course, there's only 5 ppl in the company including me, but I'm doing my part.
If I couldn't carry on the job, I'd find a different job. I do a lot of the same stuff that LEOs do, and in some pretty rough areas. Most of the people I have contact with don't look forward to my visit. I've never had a problem, but there have been several times when I've been glad that I've had my weapon available.
To the original question, I have another. Does company policy trump state law? I don't know the rules in your state, but if your vehicle is locked and your employer breaks into it, can they be convicted of a crime? Seems to me that company policy allowing search and possible destruction of personal property wouldn't hold up in court, but I'm not a lawyer and things are rarely the way I think they should be
Of course, there's only 5 ppl in the company including me, but I'm doing my part. If I couldn't carry on the job, I'd find a different job. I do a lot of the same stuff that LEOs do, and in some pretty rough areas. Most of the people I have contact with don't look forward to my visit. I've never had a problem, but there have been several times when I've been glad that I've had my weapon available.
To the original question, I have another. Does company policy trump state law? I don't know the rules in your state, but if your vehicle is locked and your employer breaks into it, can they be convicted of a crime? Seems to me that company policy allowing search and possible destruction of personal property wouldn't hold up in court, but I'm not a lawyer and things are rarely the way I think they should be
71Commander
Member
How could a private company get the Police to search your vehicle? Doesn't a crime have to be commited first, not a violation of a compny policy?
MasterPiece Arms.com
member
Quote:
I don't think it is inconsistent with libertarian principles to insist that people be able to carry firearms in their private vehicles in any parking lot, regardless of the wishes of the corporation. Limited liability corporations are increasingly destructive of liberty, in league with the government as they generally are.
RileyMc-THAT is the most encouraging statement I've heard yet regarding libertarianism. The acknowledgment that corporations and government are interwined hand in glove (to the detriment of individuals) is one that more libertarian types should recognize.
I'm super hard core Libertarian (except the Libertarian party is wrong on abortion and immigration) and I've worked to educate people on the evils of the corporate entity for years. 1st, it's a CREATION of government. I call the corporate entity a bastard stepchild of government. It exists because of a GOVERNMENT charter, thus it's not surprising when it's hard to tell where corporations end and government begins. In the same way, one shouldn't be surprised when they see mom and daughter at the mall dressed nearly identically and carrying similar purses and cell phones.
2nd: "If the American people ever allow the banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation, and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property, until their children wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power of money should be taken from banks and restored to Congress and the people to whom it belongs. I sincerely believe the banking institutions having the issuing power of money, are more dangerous to liberty than standing armies." ~ Thomas Jefferson
Rush Limbaugh has implied for years that corporations are the same as, and CONSTITUTE the free market. Hogwash. The corporate entity DESTROYS the free market in so many ways, only an idiot, or someone bought off BY corporations, or both, would say otherwise! It's true that Democrats attack corporations, but they do it for the wrong reasons.
I don't think it is inconsistent with libertarian principles to insist that people be able to carry firearms in their private vehicles in any parking lot, regardless of the wishes of the corporation. Limited liability corporations are increasingly destructive of liberty, in league with the government as they generally are.
RileyMc-THAT is the most encouraging statement I've heard yet regarding libertarianism. The acknowledgment that corporations and government are interwined hand in glove (to the detriment of individuals) is one that more libertarian types should recognize.
I'm super hard core Libertarian (except the Libertarian party is wrong on abortion and immigration) and I've worked to educate people on the evils of the corporate entity for years. 1st, it's a CREATION of government. I call the corporate entity a bastard stepchild of government. It exists because of a GOVERNMENT charter, thus it's not surprising when it's hard to tell where corporations end and government begins. In the same way, one shouldn't be surprised when they see mom and daughter at the mall dressed nearly identically and carrying similar purses and cell phones.
2nd: "If the American people ever allow the banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation, and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property, until their children wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power of money should be taken from banks and restored to Congress and the people to whom it belongs. I sincerely believe the banking institutions having the issuing power of money, are more dangerous to liberty than standing armies." ~ Thomas Jefferson
Rush Limbaugh has implied for years that corporations are the same as, and CONSTITUTE the free market. Hogwash. The corporate entity DESTROYS the free market in so many ways, only an idiot, or someone bought off BY corporations, or both, would say otherwise! It's true that Democrats attack corporations, but they do it for the wrong reasons.
My employer forbids carrying while at work, but says nothing about keeping guns in private vehicles. They don't own the parking lot, so it would probably be a moot point anyway.
Interesting hypothetical. I would guess that if your employer broke into your car and searched they would be just as guilty as if some crook broke into it. I would also guess that they wouldn't bother breaking in and would ask you if they could search your car. If you said no, then you would/could be fired. I don't know anyone that has ever had their car searched by their employer, so this is all hypothetical.
Interesting hypothetical. I would guess that if your employer broke into your car and searched they would be just as guilty as if some crook broke into it. I would also guess that they wouldn't bother breaking in and would ask you if they could search your car. If you said no, then you would/could be fired. I don't know anyone that has ever had their car searched by their employer, so this is all hypothetical.
Gunnutz13
Member
I'm employed by...
DOD and work on a military compound, which is not an official fort or base, which sports a little blue sign that states no firearms or edged weapons are permitted. All vehicles are subject to search...and when your vehicle is searched, they look in the drivers compartment, glove box, under the seats, under the hood, in the trunk, and even under the car. But they don't ever check the body...which doesn't make sense to me. A person could be strapped with C4 or carry as many firearms as they could conceal and still do major damage. And, do they really think a commited terrorist will stop and submit to a search...? Hell no, they will just blow through the checkpoint or detonate right at the front gate. :banghead:
DOD and work on a military compound, which is not an official fort or base, which sports a little blue sign that states no firearms or edged weapons are permitted. All vehicles are subject to search...and when your vehicle is searched, they look in the drivers compartment, glove box, under the seats, under the hood, in the trunk, and even under the car. But they don't ever check the body...which doesn't make sense to me. A person could be strapped with C4 or carry as many firearms as they could conceal and still do major damage. And, do they really think a commited terrorist will stop and submit to a search...? Hell no, they will just blow through the checkpoint or detonate right at the front gate. :banghead:
CAS700850
Member
County policy manual prohibits weapons in thw orkplace, weapons in county vehicles, and goes on to state that private vehicles used for county business are considered "county vehicles" for this policy's purposes. Goes on to state that any employee, that employee's workspace, and the employee's vehicle may be searched by law enforcement at any time at the request of the employee's department head and/or elected official supervising the employee. So, in theory, because I use my car to drive to witness interviews (since the county provides two cars to our office of over a dozen attorneys and half dozen investigators), they could come search it in my driveway some day. There is a right to refuse, which subjects the employee to immediate termination.
The law excepts law enforcement officers, which by definition includes me. And, since I'm now issued a weapon, I don't have to worry. But the policy is BS for employees. Imagine if you want to go to the range after work, you lock everything up in the car, but drive the car on an errand for work. Could be fired for that, even though you're in full compliance with the law.
The law excepts law enforcement officers, which by definition includes me. And, since I'm now issued a weapon, I don't have to worry. But the policy is BS for employees. Imagine if you want to go to the range after work, you lock everything up in the car, but drive the car on an errand for work. Could be fired for that, even though you're in full compliance with the law.
SADshooter
Member
MechAg94:
As JohnKSA noted, YOU can carry into my workplace or have a weapon in your car. I can't, because it violates a City of Austin employment policy. Assuming I or my vehicle were searched or my weapon otherwise observed and reported, I'd be summarily terminated. I think virtually every metro in Texas has similar policies (I know San Antonio does). Like JohnKSA I work in a remote location which is entirely City property, so there's no "off-site" option.
Again, I'm not whining, because I signed the policy waiver. All of my training/work experience is in government, so pulling up stakes isn't feasible, yet.
As JohnKSA noted, YOU can carry into my workplace or have a weapon in your car. I can't, because it violates a City of Austin employment policy. Assuming I or my vehicle were searched or my weapon otherwise observed and reported, I'd be summarily terminated. I think virtually every metro in Texas has similar policies (I know San Antonio does). Like JohnKSA I work in a remote location which is entirely City property, so there's no "off-site" option.
Again, I'm not whining, because I signed the policy waiver. All of my training/work experience is in government, so pulling up stakes isn't feasible, yet.
fletcher
Member
No, but state law does
Vermont Guy
Member
There is something that never gets mentioned in these continually recurring threads.
Most of the employers we are talking about are actually corporations. Even small businesses derive benefits from being organized as corporations. It gives them the ability to shield the owner's personal assets from liabilities that the business might incur.
In other words these employers are NOT persons created by God with any property rights. These artificial persons are creations of the state and the state can dictate whatever terms it wants.
Claiming to support "property rights" is invalid in the case of a cooperate entity.
It is a variation on an old trick. Long ago Missouri wanted to deny handguns to the recently freed blacks. It couldn't be that obvious so it enabled the sheriff's to permit only "proper" people to acquire concealable weapons. Surprise! No blacks were found to be "proper" people.
Today the legislature can enact CCW and know that over a third of the life of most permittees will be spent in prohibited places. Which will make it difficult to carry in the remaining fraction. We might as well start calling it "pajama carry" because we can only carry when we are asleep.
Gotta respect "private" property you know.
Most of the employers we are talking about are actually corporations. Even small businesses derive benefits from being organized as corporations. It gives them the ability to shield the owner's personal assets from liabilities that the business might incur.
In other words these employers are NOT persons created by God with any property rights. These artificial persons are creations of the state and the state can dictate whatever terms it wants.
Claiming to support "property rights" is invalid in the case of a cooperate entity.
It is a variation on an old trick. Long ago Missouri wanted to deny handguns to the recently freed blacks. It couldn't be that obvious so it enabled the sheriff's to permit only "proper" people to acquire concealable weapons. Surprise! No blacks were found to be "proper" people.
Today the legislature can enact CCW and know that over a third of the life of most permittees will be spent in prohibited places. Which will make it difficult to carry in the remaining fraction. We might as well start calling it "pajama carry" because we can only carry when we are asleep.
Gotta respect "private" property you know.
Shovelhead
Member
A pretty appropriate 'smiley' for anyone that tries.
I wouldn't want to be the one to try to drive a truck though the ECP of a military base (like ours) equipped with these.
http://www.deltascientific.com/k12.htm
And yes, they DO work.
Rev. DeadCorpse
Member
No firearms. No drugs. No alcohol.
Also, as a "l"ibertarian, the companies property ends where mine begins. In the case of my car and its contents, that line is their tar and my tires. As long as my firearm is not being carried outside of my property, then what they don't know won't hurt them.
As for warrentless searches, that'd be one of the faster ways for me to file a lawsuit. As would the consequences of one of my fellow employees going on a rampage while company policy forbids me the tools I could use to stop such a thing. If they strip me of my safety products, and do nothing to ensure that safety, then they are to be held liable for any damages I incur from some nutcase cutting loose.
And yes, I let the HR person know that I felt that way when they hired me.
Also, as a "l"ibertarian, the companies property ends where mine begins. In the case of my car and its contents, that line is their tar and my tires. As long as my firearm is not being carried outside of my property, then what they don't know won't hurt them.
As for warrentless searches, that'd be one of the faster ways for me to file a lawsuit. As would the consequences of one of my fellow employees going on a rampage while company policy forbids me the tools I could use to stop such a thing. If they strip me of my safety products, and do nothing to ensure that safety, then they are to be held liable for any damages I incur from some nutcase cutting loose.
And yes, I let the HR person know that I felt that way when they hired me.
Gunnutz13
Member
Hey Shovelhead...
Nice....NOW THAT'S DETERRENCE...I know that's not Fort Belvior, ( my HQ ) so where are you located in Nothern Virginia ?
Nice....NOW THAT'S DETERRENCE...I know that's not Fort Belvior, ( my HQ ) so where are you located in Nothern Virginia ?
Henry Bowman
Senior Member
THIS IS NOT LEGAL ADVICE
and I have not search the KY stautes. But based on what you quoted and stated was the law in KY, the relevant portion says:
A private ... employer may prohibit employees ... holding a concealed deadly weapons license from carrying concealed deadly weapons in vehicles owned by the employer, but may not prohibit employees ... holding a concealed deadly weapons license from carrying concealed deadly weapons in vehicles owned by the employee ...
So it would appear the the state has decided that an employee's right trumps the employer's right in this limited circumstance.
and I have not search the KY stautes. But based on what you quoted and stated was the law in KY, the relevant portion says:
A private ... employer may prohibit employees ... holding a concealed deadly weapons license from carrying concealed deadly weapons in vehicles owned by the employer, but may not prohibit employees ... holding a concealed deadly weapons license from carrying concealed deadly weapons in vehicles owned by the employee ...
So it would appear the the state has decided that an employee's right trumps the employer's right in this limited circumstance.
The usual corporate GFW regs:
1. No firearms in the building
2. None in your vehicle in the parking lot
3. Subject to search, etc
We recently got a new fellow working at my site. Former SF from way back & a gun aficionado. Got to speaking with him & squared him away WRT Texas CHL law & corporate policy. Had to tell him to keep some of his just-after-work activities on the low-down, because of company policy.
1. No firearms in the building
2. None in your vehicle in the parking lot
3. Subject to search, etc
We recently got a new fellow working at my site. Former SF from way back & a gun aficionado. Got to speaking with him & squared him away WRT Texas CHL law & corporate policy. Had to tell him to keep some of his just-after-work activities on the low-down, because of company policy.
Shovelhead
Member
I live in Arlington Virginia, but I work at Bolling AFB in Washington DC.
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