Dog attack

Status
Not open for further replies.
Early days of IDPA had a common scenario that I described as
“Shoot a mean dog and you might have to shoot a mean dog owner.“
Years ago after I had rotator cuff surgery and not able to do much I started walking in my neighborhood to get out of the house and get some exercise . My arm was still in a sling . As I got to where a couple of young police officers rented a house I saw one of them out washing his car . He had a German Shepard and a pit bull out in the front yard with him off leash . They hadn’t seen me . I decided that it was better not to walk by that house that day . I thought if I shoot one of his dogs , he is probably going to shoot me and then we would be in a gun fight . I wonder how that would go in court .
 
Last edited:
I wish you had shot all those dogs dead right there on the road. I would have. I've know enough first hand dog attacks with the victims needing overnight hospital care (my son when he was in 2nd grade is one). The owners need to experience a loss so they'll change their behavior.
 
While I like dogs, love some more than others, I will not allow an aggressive dog to use me for a chew toy. I will not hesitate to put down an threatening dog.

I hear so many people that say that they will kill a person that hurts their "baby" when I tell them to leash the dog they look at me like I'm some kind of monster.

Lots of really stupid dog owners out there who think their dog is far more valuable than your life.

If you have a dog, put a leash on it. Fence your yard. It's more for the dogs protection that mine.
 
They way I was raised and socialized I feel a commanding urge to protect my dogs by maintaining complete fencing around our yard (5 acres). I understand limited funds but I despise people who allow their dogs to roam unfenced or untethered (cheap to remedy). They have no respect for their dogs or the public. That said, I also understand the need to protect human safety, and I applaud the OP for protecting someone who was helpless in that situation. And by following up with appropriate authorities.

One time I had the yard gate open (my dogs in the house) to allow for UPS or fedex. A couple pits just walking along the road decided they would check out my yard. I made myself loud and gave orders and they seemed to take the hint and went back the way they came. Probably nice dogs, their people most likely suck.
 
What if it is only you and a dead dog ?
Um, so what's your answer then, if you're out for your evening perambulation, and you're confronted with a large aggressive dog, that's escaped his yard and is on the public road, giving off attack indicators that even a member of The Squad could read?

though I know you're going to have to "prove" that your life was in danger.
Are you then contending that you must be able to display numerous deep punctures and tears from doggie teeth around your femoral artery or neck to have to "prove" your life was in danger?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Dogs are alot like people. If I believe it's going to try to take a piece of me, I'm shooting it.

Had to beat off two aggressive dogs with a broken mop handle once at my kids' birthday party. Lasted a couple minutes. Wasn't fun. Guess I won.
15 adults stood around the whole time flabbergasted and useless, didn't even have the presence of mind to get the kids indoors, SMH.
Turns out the same dogs had attacked a horse and rider day before.
My Dad thinks Im a little paranoid for carrying while mowing the lawn now. He wasn't there.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
The land I hunt on (and take care of for the largely absentee/snowbird property owner- a friend I served in the military with) is nearly 50 acres about 30 minutes from here. He also has a problem with feral dogs, which he sees from time to time on trail cameras on his propertry that send pics to his phone. He has personally called all of the nearby neighbors (2 of whom are LE), and none of them have any idea as to where these dogs came from. This includes the 200 acre hunting club that borders his property to the north- where off-leash dogs are not allowed even though it is legal to hunt/pursue deer with dogs in Fl. Between conflicts with humans, various livestock, and deer hunting (season just started last weekend) my $ says that problem will not be there for long. I know I don't put all of my time, work, and $ into making that a good hunting spot just so wild dogs can come in and mess it up. I'm sure the others who live, work, and hunt in the surrounding areas will have little patience for it either.
 
Um, so what's your answer then, if you're out for your evening perambulation, and you're confronted with a large aggressive dog, that's escaped his yard and is on the public road, giving off attack indicators that even a member of The Squad could read?

Are you then contending that you must be able to display numerous deep punctures and tears from doggie teeth around your femoral artery or neck to have to "prove" your life was in danger?
I am sure that you are going to have to prove something more than the dog growled at you if you discharge your firearm in public and prove even more if you kill it . I would hope that the dog had a history of biting someone before , or they interview neighbors , if there are no witnesses and just your word .
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Great job @FL-NC!

Yes, a pack of feral dogs is scary. They're some of the most intelligent creatures, after us, and they're capable of taking any animal in coordinated attacks - provided there are enough of them.
 
I am sure that you are going to have to prove something more than the dog growled at you if you discharge your firearm in public and prove even more if you kill it . I would hope that the dog had a history of biting someone before , or they interview neighbors , if there are no witnesses and just your word .
For a single dog, yes. For a pack of dogs, unlikely. This type of attack is on the news often.
 
You just never know what you will run into. We were on a trail ride and camping trip once down in southern ohio in a sparsely populated area and luckily we didn't have any trouble while on horses but on the drive home I had 2 large dogs pop out of the woods and take off chasing my truck. It was a gravel road and you could barely go 20 mph and they kept pace for over half a mile, I finally decided enough was enough and goosed it enough to clip one with the front corner of the horse trailer. I didn't run it clear over and it left under its own power. That would have been an awful place to have a flat tire, let alone be on a bike or hiking.
If we ever get to doing that on a regular basis again I may have to buy some pepper spray or something. I think its 50/50 down there whether the dog is a stray or would have an owner that thinks its ok for it to be out terrorizing things and would take offense to you defending yourself and ruining their dogs fun. We have banned dogs at the horse farm we run and people are very put out that we don't let their dog have a "farm day" where it can run the cats up telephone poles, kill things, and chase horses.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
We've had to see far too many sketchy parts of town and bad families back when we did the fostering dogs there bite people all the time, way too many kids had bite scars, etc.

But dogs in packs are always worse.. Rather nice neighborhood where my parents lived a friend of ours ended up in the hospital (like, for a week, not treated and released) over three.... Jack Russell Terriers. While my mom yelled and kicked at them, then several neighbors rushed out and eventually chased them off with sticks and rocks.

Yeah. I carry All The Time when alone out of the house, as I like walks and runs and bike rides.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Six-foot wall along my walk with a dog that would get up on top of the wall and menace me. Got tired of it one day and punched it hard on the side of the snoot.
Next day it got up on the wall, saw me, got right back down.
Used straight ammonia in a squirt bottle on another dog. No further problem there either.
Those were easy fixes. Sometimes you have to club or shoot them.
 
I immediately got between it and my wife and as it came at me I punched it in the head, knocking it to the side. For some reason it was focused more on getting to my wife and kid than to me and we did a brief little circle dance with my wife and the dog circling me.
They get fixated on their chosen target and the circling behavior seems to be common from videos I've seen. This makes for a real mess when a child or pet dog is involved because the adult defender can get tangled in a leash, or is forced to turn in circles trying to get hold of the kid/pet dog to get it away from the attacking dog. What typically happens when the defender finally does get the child/pet up away from the attacking dog, then the attacking dog will go for the defender to try to get it to drop the pet/child.

People need a plan before this happens to them. It's a problematic situation for the defender if they have to figure out what to do on the fly in the middle of this kind of an attack.
 
Yes and that doesn’t always work out for you and a lot of times cost you all your money .
Not sure how that's relevant. If a dog attacks you or someone else, you're perfectly within your rights to shoot it. It's not complicated, and (obviously) it's far less likely to be an expensive issue than it would be with a human.
 
as a good friend said to me( DOGS DON,T BITE, UNTILL THEY DO). where little children get into trouble is, that they don,t know better and think all dogs are like the friendly mutt next door and go right up to them and try to pet or play with them.
 
More focused on getting to...the weaker of the group is instinctive old wolf pack hunting the herd mentality. How many videos has been filmed, how many school lessons taught, where this is described NORMAL behavior for wild animals. Look for the easiest snack. My best uneducated guess is dogs portraying that behavior have had wild kills before and did same. Wild kills being, squirrels, rabbits etc. vs. larger animals.
 
Not sure how that's relevant. If a dog attacks you or someone else, you're perfectly within your rights to shoot it. It's not complicated, and (obviously) it's far less likely to be an expensive issue than it would be with a human.
You would still have to prove that you were justified if you were charged in a criminal offense . That could be up to the police officers that arrive . If there are no witnesses , or dog bites that might be a problem for you . Some people are scared to death if they see a dog running loose . The dog owner could also take you to civil court for damages and it wouldn’t cost you as much as Rittenhouse to defend yourself , but it would still cost you if you chose to get a lawyer . Without witnesses , video evidence , dogs history or bite marks it could be a legal and civil liability . If I were to kill a dog and civil charges were filed against me , I would hire a lawyer , that is going to cost me some money even if found innocent . I will add that in my state it is a felony to intentionally kill a dog . You can kill them in certain circumstances . But that is a felony if convicted . You would lose all your gun rights for one and that would be worse to me than a big fine .
 
Last edited:
You would still have to prove that you were justified if you were charged in a criminal offense . That could be up to the police officers that arrive . If there are no witnesses , or dog bites that might be a problem for you . Some people are scared to death if they see a dog running loose . The dog owner could also take you to civil court for damages and it wouldn’t cost you as much as Rittenhouse to defend yourself , but it would still cost you if you chose to get a lawyer . Without witnesses , video evidence , dogs history or bite marks it could be a legal and civil liability . If I were to kill a dog and civil charges were filed against me , I would hire a lawyer , that is going to cost me some money even if found innocent . I will add that in my state it is a felony to intentionally kill a dog . You can kill them in certain circumstances . But that is a felony if convicted . You would lose all your gun rights for one and that would be worse to me than a big fine .
I was always under the impression that the burden of proof rests with the state/plaintiff VS the accused. Is it different in Va?
 
Aggressive dogs are another reason I carry both a handgun and spray. Never had to use either, but both are a comfort when I'm out riding my bike.
 
I was always under the impression that the burden of proof rests with the state/plaintiff VS the accused. Is it different in Va?
Normally, when accused of a crime, you could just say you didn't do it and that would put the burden of proof on the state. In a case like this, to claim self-defense or defense of property, you would have to admit to shooting the dog which essentially destroys your ability claim that you didn't do it. So you will start out admitting to an act that looks like a crime--leaving the burden of proof on you to show that what you did was justified under the law.

That doesn't mean you have to let them injure you to have a legitimate claim any more than you have to allow yourself to be shot or stabbed or bludgeoned to claim self-defense. Admittedly being able to show injuries does make things simpler, but it's certainly not a requirement.
MEHavey said:
As far as Virginia goes for right of defense of both self & property against other animals (incl dogs), it's instructive to read some actual case law:
Nice resource.

"Holding: When dogs become a public nuisance and menace, ordinary rules of self-defense apply. The owner of a domestic animal or fowl which is placed in jeopardy by the attack of a dog has the right to kill a dog for the protection of his property."
"While an owner of turkeys had a right to kill dogs, if necessary, in defense of his property, he had no right to kill them wantonly, or if his property could be reasonably protected without such killing. The court reversed judgment for defendant, finding that defendant’s act of killing dog while not engaged in the act of “worrying the livestock,” was not authorized within the statute."

Key takeaways for those in VA.

1. You wouldn't want to kill a dog in defense of someone else's pet/livestock since the cases appear to only give the right to defend property in that manner to the actual owner of the property. Perhaps there's more information in the actual statutes.

2. The defense of property appears to be very much like the typical self-defense laws in that the action taken needs to be to stop an actual attack that is in progress or to prevent an attack that is very obviously imminent and can't be stopped any other way. So killing a dog if there's another reasonable way to stop the property damage from occurring would not be legal. Same with killing a dog that's not actually attacking or that's not very obviously just about to attack livestock or pets.
 
Apparently some here may be unaware of just how quickly a dog attack can render a human helpless or even totally incapacitated.

If you wait until the dog actually attacks, and has his teeth in you, to attempt to access whatever defensive weapon you may have on your person (OC, handgun, TASER, knife, sharp stick) it's already too late -- you likely will not be able to deploy any weapon at all.

I have witnessed the aftermath of several dog attacks, two with gruesome injuries (one of those in which a partner was forced to dispatch the dog), one fatal to a human, two fatal to the (guess I'd better say, "alleged" in view of a couple opinions in the thread) attacking dogs, and one neighborhood dispute where a property owner killed his neighbor's two dogs over his dead chickens, those are just the ones I remember offhand.

It's not complicated, and (obviously) it's far less likely to be an expensive issue than it would be with a human.
That's what we do here; we make everything complicated.:D
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top