domestic dispute... actions of police, fair?

[NHBB]

personally I don't think so.

me and my brother were hanging out at my house a few nights ago... we heard a raging domestic dispute going on around the block behind our yard. we went over, surveyed the situation... both of us armed. my brother calls the police, informs them that we are armed and gives a description of us so they know we are not "the bad guys". anyways, I thought this was extremely uncalled for... so I ran back to my house and left my firearm there.

first cop to pull up was a woman... you can hear the man and woman screaming in the house... yet first question as soon as she gets out "ok who is armed". she strips my brother of his glock and locks it in her trunk.. and then goes on to handle the situation as several more cars showed up. they seemed untimely fast given the nature of my brothers call I think... but you have the 911 caller getting questioned and firearm stripped from him before the domestic dispute at hand...

your thoughts? comments? I knew something like that would happen, hence I went back and left mine at home. he didn't seem to see my logic, but no one would have been the wiser and they would have attended to the situation at hand quicker.

btw we are both licensed to carry concealed, and I don't see how that police officer had any right to take his gun... but you pick your battles, I wasn't about to make a big deal about it... I just wanted to go home, it was late.

 

[NHBB]

on a side note, the female was questioned and I heard her lying completely ( I heard the dispute going on, they were both the aggressors, her more so and the story she was telling was NOT what was going on)

I told the LEO that I had pertinent information that contradicted what was being said, so she pretended to take a mental note of my name and address obviously not interested in hearing what I had to say. Seemed like in her eyes there was just one side to it all, the battered woman (who is known to be a bit of a psycho around the neighborhood).

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Inasmuch as you two were not part of the dispute, or even on the premises where the dispute was taking place, WHY did your brother feel it necessary to inform the police that he was armed? You guys weren't really even witnesses, you were just two citizens reporting what appeared to be a domestic dispute escalating out of control.

I don't even understand why you were standing around outside. You reported the incident. If the police wanted to ask you what you heard and why you reported it, they could come knock on your door.

I'm not sure whether I agree or disagree with the action of disarming your brother, but I am certain that he brought it on himself unnecessarily.

 

[NHBB]

hawkmoon, I agree completely... frankly he is young (23) and I think he gets a kick out of people knowing he is armed. I chastized him thoroughly for doing it, but he couldn't see the reasoning, still has a bit of growing up to do.... it was completely unneccesary.

as far as standing around, there were several other neighbors around, all off us on the sidewalk outside... waiting for the police to show up.

 

[grampster]

I concur with hawkmoon. No reason to inform the police about anything except why you are calling, what you observe and your name and address if they wanted it. The family disturbance was the reason for the call, not the fact you are armed. Who cares if you're armed in this case? What did that have to do with anything? At least you had the good judgment to disarm yourself so that you did not become the focus of this situation.

Part of the distress I have with some folks on the gun boards is the fact that they seem to have the need to broadcast that they are armed. What gives with that? I have the constitutional right to life, but I don't go around announcing to everyone that I'm alive.

Sorry, I don't mean to be critical, but whether one is armed or not is only the business of the one who is armed. It's for you to know and hopefully for nobody else ever to find out.

 

[NHBB]

cant we please get past the fact that my brother was an IDIOT?

thats not what this was about, and I said in the very first post I was angered by what he did.... it wasn't ME, and he got an ass reaming for it afterwards.

that part of the story was merely a footnote... the target point was about the disarmament of those on the scene who had nothing to do with the incident but were merely reporting it. he brought that upon himself, but being legally licensed to carry concealed as he was, I dont see what right the LEO had to confiscate his firearm.

 

[NHBB]

though it was irresponsible and foolish of my brother to mention that fact, the issue that the LEO decided it was more important to disarm a legally armed citizen (who called the police in the first place) despite the screaming inside of the house is what bothered me. who knows what could have happened in the couple minutes she decided to refrain from taking care of the situation at hand to handle what I consider a minor detail. what if that short amount of time cost one of the parties involved to get killed?

 

[Steve in PA]

You and your brother put yourselves right into the middle of this call. The police were informed that there were person(s) at the scene and armed.

Just because you and your brother claimed not to be 'bad guys" does mean mean this to be true. Your brother had his weapon secured until the situation was taken care of. Domestics are nasty calls to say the least.

 

[NHBB]

I don't know how much more clearly I can spell it out. I went over along with a half dozen neighbors to make sure no one was getting killed. I didn't make the call, he did that on his own accord and I only found out about it after. I put myself in the middle of nothing, has it degraded to the point where we should all just ignore blood curdling screams of our neighbors and not go to help if it is immediately necessary? I went on instinct, out of concern for human life, and also to find the correct address to report to the police as I did not know it.

separate my naive brother's ignorant behavior from the issue here for a moment. he got an earful from me for bein an irresponsible gun owner, but I myself did everything by the book. I am starting to regret even posting this as some of you are completely missing the main point of my posting.

 

[Rockstar]

Sounds like prudent police work to me. I don't see how the disposition of the case is the concern or business of anybody except the couple involved and the police.

 

[Gordon Fink]

NHBB, at best, most cops are at least uncomfortable with armed citizens.

~G. Fink

 

[NHBB]

I know that fink... thats why I took off and left mine at home, you could hear the crap going on in the house 2 blocks away, and it amassed quite the crowd. if my bro had kept his mouth shut it wouldn't have caused a delay in action regarding the situation, but I found it disheartening that was the number one priority with a raging domestic dispute going on. those few minutes disarming an alarmed citizen could have cost a life.

 

[Gordon Fink]

Didn’t say it was right, but that’s probably why it happened.

~G. Fink

 

[yorec]

Err... the point and your brother's action is so interrelated that objective viewers may not be able to separate them... You'll just have to live with that...

Take it from a different point of view - the poilice's.

They get a call to a domestic, a high risk incident with may carry plenty of potential danger. Oh yeah, the dispater adds, there's some guys standing out there who wanted me to tell you they are armed, but are not part of the problem. (Not bad guys)

So what's the first thing any reasonable officer is going to do on arrival? Make the scene as safe as they can starting with the most obvious thing first. Good guy or bad - a man with a gun at the scene of a domestic (or outside on the lawn) is potentially dangerous. Whizbang - disarm them and first potential threat is taken care of... Now on the the fighting couple... If the armed person was identified as a badguy he gets cuffed and stuffed in the backseat of a patrol car unti lmore could be sorted out and after the domestic situation was quelled - the fact that this doesn't happen speaks volumes for the officer in this situation.

So, was it fair? - Yep. Now if he had problems getting his gun back afterward there might be something to worry about.

 

[Standing Wolf]

Heck, everybody knows it's always the man's fault.

 

[1911Ron]

From my take on this is your brother was disarmed because 1, in his call he declared he was armed 2, the 911 operator put this info in the dispatch(pucker factor goes up on domestic calls when a weapon factors into the mix)3 when the first responder arrives they have to figure out who is involved,thus on her judgement call she knew he was carrying but didn't know if he was involved she choose to disarm him. There have been to many police that have been attacked by the victim after arresting the offender or been sho because an unkown player interveened. A domestic call is very dangerous next to a vehicle stop in violence.

 

[atomchaser]

I don't have any police experience, but it would seem to me if someone called 911 to report something and mentioned that they are armed would imply that they are contemplating taking some action with their firearm. I think the police acted appropriately.

 

[NHBB]

I appreciate the objective insights into the situation. he was able to get it back no problem after the situation was contained and BS statements were taken from the parties involved... just wanted to hear out some thoughts and I do realize that the fact of my brother not keeping his mouth shut mixed up priorities. I was just curious to hear other points of view, this is not an LEO bashfest, I just couldn't understand how we were a good ways away from the premises out of the way of action for the police to take regarding the audible screams... I guess just knowing that we were in fact just concerned citizens and the violence continued because of something that seemed so minor to me delayed reaction to the real issue at hand. as mentioned though, the pucker reaction had to play in, and who knows... I think they showed up a lot quicker due to the call despite my brother's complete lack of common sense at the moment.

just wanted to bounce it around here as this is the most knowledgable group of educated firearm owners I know. I am going to have another talk with my brother about this after reflecting on the posts here, thanks to all for their input.

 

[yorec]

he was able to get it back no problem after the situation was contained

Sounds like you guys ran into a good one there - kudos to that officer for making a snap decision under fire and making it right when all was said and done.

 

[mountaindrew]

If I were a PO (Im not) I would think it would be prudent to err on the side of my own safety rather than worry about hurting your brothers feelings. You said yourself that he is a little immature in that he advertises his armed state. It is quite possible for the dispatch operator and the oficer to pick up on that too from his call and his unexplained need to anounce he is armed. I would be nervous about an unknown quantity is such a situation, knowing only that he was armed, and immature, and proud of it.

I am not bashing you or your brother, I just think it is not unreasonable for the office to respond as she did.

He got his gun back, all's well that ends well.

 

[NHBB]

agreed, thats how I see it, no harm no foul in the end... everything ended well. I dont know what dispatch told the LEO, my only input was screams coming from the house and a delayed intervention based on my brothers lack of forsight. I know he meant well, but it was a bad move on his part. trust me, we have had this talk and we will have it again.

 

[kahr40]

Shouldn't have told them he was armed. you did the prudent thing in leaving. Once the police had been called you'd done your civic duty. Cops are going to make the scene safe for them. They don't know your brother from adam. Domestics are always a dangerous mess. A domestic call where there is a eapon is going to bring everyone available.
Now, did they give your brother his weapon back?

 

[NHBB]

yes, he did indeed get it back about a half hour later. I understand the LEO's point of view of securing their safety, but when there is audible screaming just a few yards away, I just assumed that would be the main priority.

 

[tanksoldier]

I'm curious why you felt in pertinent to mention that the first officer on the scene was female? Does that make her seem less capable to you, or her action suspect in some way?

If I was the cop I'd make sure that your brother wasn't involved in some way before I gave him his gun back. I see no problem with the police officer's actions.

 

[NHBB]

tank, the reason I mentioned it was just under my observation, that she seemed more intent on dealing with the female's statement (lying) than she was gathering the entire details of the scene of the crime. they were both at fault from what I could hear from the situation... and an unbiased LEO would listen to all accounts and move from there. the fact she blew off every witnesses input and relied solely on the input of the supposed battered woman suggested prejudice as far as I was concerned, hence I felt it was worth mentioning.