domestic dispute... actions of police, fair?

[Kilroy]

Your brother flapping his gums, probably in more then one place, about being armed, is going to expose the both of you to threats you may not even realize.

Sounds like he has advertised that you two have firearms, possibly setting the stage for a theft or complaint against you in the future.

Inserting ones self into a domestic is also not very wise. Report it and remain at a distance.

 

[rde]

I would agree that the police did the correct thing given the situation. The domestic dispute was located, easily identified, and since both parties of the domestic were full involved then both parties were at least alive for the moment. Anyone else that may be involved are not identified at this point. They have some information that some people are in fact armed. A lot of information that responding units actually recieve is actually completely wrong in many cases. Cooperating with the on scene officer and surrendering the firearm when asked without confrontation was very smart, probably reduced some anxiety on the part of the responding officers, and probably won you and your brother some points in your favor for cooperating (given that he advertised on scene and armed) which is why there probably wasn't a issue when it came time to return the firearm.

 

[NHBB]

you know it seems the vast majority here seems intent on arm chair quarterbacking... deciding where you may or may not have went wrong on responding to a situation like I did. was it prejudice... why were you so close... etc. coming from this microcosm of gun owners, I think my future actions will be clear. I will call in a complaint, wait for the cavalry that most here seem to know arrive just after the nick of time, and rest with an easy conscience. I would figure most would be glad some citizens acted upon instinct for the well being of their brethren, rather than just call it in and be done with. for the most part the input I have gathered here has left me disenchanted, and next time maybe someone will lose their life due to the conditioning that so many here preach about. frankly I am disgusted beyond words, but hey, it didnt concern me... I acted out of instinct for my fellow man... apparently that only draws more harm than good these days. next time something like this happens... maybe I will rely on instinct, and disregard PC notions, or maybe I will sit at home and listen to slaughter. sorry but I expected more from this board. lets all follow suit and put our heads in the sand... the police ALWAYS knows what is best no matter how late they arrive. some good responses here, but the responses en masse discourage me from ever lifting a finger again to help someone in need. thanks so much, truly.

 

[MikeIsaj]

I vote that the cop acted prudently. Domestics are a complete mess, as you saw. The cops are NEVER right in the end. In the future, make the call and then stay at home. It is not a spectator sport.

What the female officer knew that you didn't know is that this incident will never go to trial. The wife will not testify against her husband. She didn't call and if she finds out you did, boy is she going to be ticked off at you! Even if she does call, she just wants it to stop tonight. That's why she wasn't interested in your story.

 

[NHBB]

everyone preaches the high road here, and in my opinion... I took that road. though the majority of the posters here who supposedly follow that same instinctual reaction to a neighbor in need... I appreciate the insight. I wouldn't want 95% of you on my jury if it came down to jeopardizing my life to protect another, no matter how you care to justify your nitpicking of the events that happen within seconds.... true colors be shown, I won't forget it. thanks for the valuable lesson.

 

[NHBB]

what if it was your own daughter getting her head bounced off the walls by a violent significant other... would you prefer I sit in my house and just call the police and hope she comes out alive and not on a stretcher? I am seriously disappointed in some of the responses here, paramount to leeching off the govt tit... the government always knows best, and will respond in a timely manner. keep repeating that to yourselves, might help you sleep better at night.

 

[Andrew Rothman]

I have no idea what you are talking about.

You relate the situation, ask for our input, then complain that we're armchair quarterbacking.

Your brother bragging that he armed was the DIRECT cause of the cop, justified or not, choosing to disarm him first. You say it's beside the point, but you're wrong: it IS the point.

I haven't seen anyone say not to look out for your fellow man, so I'm confused why you keep going on about that.

Your brother learned a good lesson at almost no cost. The domestic got taken care of. It was a good outcome all around!

Quit your complaining.

 

[Moondoggie]

You also have to think about the perspective of the LEO's.

The screaming that seemed so horrible to you is what they hear from outside as they approach the door on most domestic violence calls.

They have zero idea what's actually happening on the other side of the door. They have been trained extensively that a domestic violence call is one of the most dangerous situations that they have to deal with...often several times per shift. The LEO's have very little intel of how many people are in the residence, how many weapons are readily available, WHO the folks inside might be...etc.

The female officer that you see as wasting time dealing with your brother was already aware that other units would be on scene momentarily. She was using her time wisely to secure the area until enough manpower arrived to ensure that the situation inside was resolved with EVERYBODY'S safety covered. In today's world, no LEO is gonna charge into a domestic violence situation solo when backup is only a few moments away. Also, for all she knows, your brother is related to the woman inside and might just bust a cap into the husband when they bring him out in cuffs. Hey, does it ever happen?

You can't comprehend the rapidly changing dymanics in one of these situations if you haven't been there. (I have, as a LEO.) Oftentimes, the wife will attack the cops with deadly intent after the husband who was beating the crap out of her is in cuffs. Why??? To cover herself with him when he gets out of jail and comes back into their home..."I was on your side, baby!" There is a whole psychology of dependency in abuse victims, especially when the aggressor/abuser is the meal ticket.

BTW, the cops KNOW that all parties involved are lying their butts off, as does the DA and the judge. The cops just want to write their report, cuff and transport the most likely suspect, and go on to some other call/problem. These folks are most likely "No strangers in paradise" as I once heard a judge tell some folks probably just like these two.

Since your brother got his gun back in short order, I think the actions of the officer were fair.

Our soon to be passed CCW law here in Nebraska requires a CHL holder to surrender their pistol to police/emt's during virtually any and all contact with them such as filling out an accident report.

 

[NHBB]

well like I said, the details are more than I care to type a complete monologue about. I only acted out of instinct to help a neighbor out and see what was going on, I took no action and as I said after my ignorant brother made the call I discarded my firearm.. I have had the time to reflect on all vewpoints, I acknowledge that my brother acted imprudently, just sorry to see the majority of posts insinuating "you should have known better, go back to your home and forget it". I heard a lot of into that I felt was valuable to the situation, that was simply shrugged off. as I said, next time I won't even bother trying to do right and help the situation since the cavalry always arrives on time and never makes mistakes. chastize me all you want, my actions were independent despite the foolish moves regarding my brother, its all fine. just hope it isn't one of your family the next time a situation arises like this and I refuse to intervene given the responses that I have received here. thank you all for helping to keep my record clean as I did my best in the first place to do so.

 

[Andrew Rothman]

What actions did you take? Or, to put it bluntly, what are you ranting about?

 

[Car Knocker]

you know it seems the vast majority here seems intent on arm chair quarterbacking

Isn't that exactly what you asked people to do in your first post?

for the most part the input I have gathered here has left me disenchanted

sorry but I expected more from this board.

If you don't want to hear the answer, don't ask the question.

I'm sorry folks didn't give you the rubber stamp of approval for your actions. Life is full of disappointments.

 

[Moondoggie]

Bud, you're kinda giving this the drama queen treatment.

You ask for opinions, then when we offer them in response to the information you provided, you denigrate us as not being up to your standards. Apparently we're not "Stand-up" enough for you.

If you thought there was murder and mayhem afoot inside the premises why didn't you go charging to the rescue??? Superman suit in the cleaners perhaps?

The female officer didn't abuse your brother or otherwise injure him, get over it. As you said, he brought it upon himself by being a nimrod.

Oh, yeah, I almost forgot...find and learn to use the shift key.

 

[tommytrauma]

everyone preaches the high road here, and in my opinion... I took that road. though the majority of the posters here who supposedly follow that same instinctual reaction to a neighbor in need... I appreciate the insight. I wouldn't want 95% of you on my jury if it came down to jeopardizing my life to protect another, no matter how you care to justify your nitpicking of the events that happen within seconds.... true colors be shown, I won't forget it. thanks for the valuable lesson.

If you can set your emotions aside and re-read this thread, you'll find that no one has said that you shouldn't have done what you did. The only criticism has revolved around your brother's actions, which you've already agreed were inappropriate. Others have already pointed out that it isn't unreasonable for a police officer who is responding to a chaotic, emotionally charged situation with a plethora of unknown variables to decide to temporarily disarm the 'young man' who feels the need to let people know he has a gun. Why are you reacting this way?

 

[NHBB]

nice writeoff there dan, but for a group so up in arms about the semantics of actions regarding police conduct, I guess I just assumed more. just felt that some might have read more into the posts instead of just skimming to make a more accurate assumption regarding the scenario. never claimed to be in the right, just dont like people taking every other word and inserting their ignorant analysis regarding the situation. judging by half the responses it is obvious that most did just that, couldn't even differentiate the actions of my self in contrast to those around me. I respect a lot of people on this board, but not those that do not read a thread waiting for a spot to stick in their one cent whether it is relevant or not.

what am I complaining for seems to be the consensus? read on from the first post throughout the thread, and you can see my initial question and complaint.. I don't care if someone's views digress from my own, but I posted this up as a matter of a discussion, not rape the messenger and attack the person reporting on what went on. some have been completely insightful... others have not. seems the high road only is fit when it is convenient. I have inputted my thoughts where I can to help the common good, I don't expect a jump beatdown by those who didn't even take the time to take all accounts into thought and then derive a response that didnt contain an attack on the threadmaker. apparently I expected too much... but thats alright, fire at will comrades, sticks and stones... whatever helps some of you sleep at night

 

[NHBB]

Moon, look... I found it!

Here is the proper grammar you seem to be probing at. From the beginning I did not condone my brother's actions, I just wanted input regarding the police conduct.

Reverse the scenario... you pull up to a home with people threatening each other's lives (I'll omit the obscenties per the board's rules)...

You hear "I am going to F'n kill you" on both sides, but no, disarming a fellow on the sidewalk takes precedence over what may be going on inside.. for officer safety of course. In the end things ended up ok... what if someone got knifed of shot? It was all that more important to handle the perp on the street who called the offense in regarding the situation in the first place. Guess I am alone on that pretense... I do NOT condone the actions of my brother. I only layed out the points of the matter and get assaulted in return? Nice.

God bless the shift key, since it is so important getting a point across and all. Thanks for letting me know, perhaps if I used it to its fullest capability I wouldn't have been held culpable for my brother's actions as it seems we are one in the same despite the details laid out in previous posts. TY

 

[spocahp anar]

It should be everyone's concern that justice is served. If both are at fault then both should be held equally liable...................

 

[NHBB]

agreed, and one of the points of what I have been carrying on about. I do NOT defend my brother's actions, I believe he was wrong in what he did and I told him myself... but it seems as though some have just got off the original path here and focused on that. just beating on a dead horse carcass at this point.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

I don't know how much more clearly I can spell it out. I went over along with a half dozen neighbors to make sure no one was getting killed. I didn't make the call, he did that on his own accord and I only found out about it after. I put myself in the middle of nothing, has it degraded to the point where we should all just ignore blood curdling screams of our neighbors and not go to help if it is immediately necessary? I went on instinct, out of concern for human life, and also to find the correct address to report to the police as I did not know it.

Nobody is missing the point except you. The point seems to be that you want people to agree with you, and people don't.

Your brother called the police, not the neighbors who were there with you. Your brother told the police that he was armed. The police arrived. Try thinking like a police officer for a moment. You pull up and you don't know who anybody is, but you do know that SOMEBODY on the premises has a gun. You have no idea if they are involved (or were involved) in the dispute. You're about to go into a domestic dispute, which based on history could prove ugly. You don't need to be worrying about protecting your rear flank, so you secure the known firearm.

I am far from the most ardent LEO supporter here, but in this circumstance I do not see anything "unfair" about the action. It strikes me as completely reasonable and prudent.

 

[NHBB]

that is fine moon, really thats all I ask. I dont necessarily want an opinion saying "hey, right on, you are the man!" nor do I want personal attacks regarding my conduct as it was not I that acted in that manner. just a discussion that I thought people here would be interested in. you don't have to agree with me, but please save the personal attacks (not saying that is what you are doing, these are the types of responses I would like to see).

 

[Aguila Blanca]

you know it seems the vast majority here seems intent on arm chair quarterbacking... deciding where you may or may not have went wrong on responding to a situation like I did. was it prejudice... why were you so close... etc. coming from this microcosm of gun owners, I think my future actions will be clear. I will call in a complaint, wait for the cavalry that most here seem to know arrive just after the nick of time, and rest with an easy conscience. I would figure most would be glad some citizens acted upon instinct for the well being of their brethren, rather than just call it in and be done with. for the most part the input I have gathered here has left me disenchanted, and next time maybe someone will lose their life due to the conditioning that so many here preach about. frankly I am disgusted beyond words, but hey, it didnt concern me...

Stop right there.

If anyone is Monday morning quarterbacking, it's because YOU asked for opinions. Well, you got opinions. Some of them don't agree with your opinion. If you didn't want to risk hearing dissenting opinions, why did you ask for them?

And what's this about YOU responding to a situation? Correct me if I misread your initial post, but was it not your brother who called the police, not you? All you did was stand around with the rest of the rubberneckers and wait for the cops to show up.

 

[Kurush]

Look... Part of a cop's job is to play amateur psychologist to figure out what everyone's role is in a scene and what they're going to do. If somebody calls in and says they're listening to their neighbors fight oh and by the way I'm armed, they can only assume the caller is somehow involved. The dispatcher doesn't know the caller, and doesn't know if he always carries or just grabbed his gun in some crazy plan to try and break up the fight himself.

Honestly, it sounds to me like your brother was on some level fantasizing about getting involved and playing hero. It sounds like the cop was saw it the same way. Playing hero in a bank robbery or murder is one thing, getting involved in a domestic dispute is totally inappropriate. Even if he was completely in control of that fantasy, again, the cop doesn't know you guys and has to assume the worst.

Sorry if this discussion isn't going the way you wanted it to but really the way you describe it the cops were right to be wary.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Our soon to be passed CCW law here in Nebraska requires a CHL holder to surrender their pistol to police/emt's during virtually any and all contact with them such as filling out an accident report.

WHAAAAT?!?!?

Your state is considering a law requiring a CHL to hand over their weapon just to tell a cop ... or an EMT ... what they witnessed? Or to fill out the blanks on an accident report?

That's NUTS!

 

[NHBB]

rubbernecker moon? a neighbor standing by to make sure nothing horrible went on during the time it took for the LEO's to show up is a rubbernecker? I don't even know what that term is supposed to imply, but I assume it is derogatory giving your rhetoric.

I don't know if you have children or not, but would you rather all "rubber necks" retreat to their homes while your child's well being is in jeopardy and rely on law enforcement?

still aghast at the assumption.. and unclear what a rubberneck is. I am a white collar self employed individual who pays taxes in the top bracket and owns a 400k home without a mortgage... does that still make me a "rubberneck"? think about it from all sides, if it was a daughter or son of yours, I would have been there on the frontlines to ensure the safety of another human being regardless of their background.

 

[NHBB]

and just one last interjection about my bro... he is a grown man, but immature regarding firearm discretion despite our numerous talks. I reprimanded him as best as I can but I am not his guardian, I am still upset regarding the position he put us in, I told him next time they may just yank his CCW permit on the spot, but as I said that is not me. I value the rights that have been given to me and preserve them as best I can. its apples and oranges, we are related by blood... but never assume his stupidity reflects on me.

 

[Moondoggie]

Hawk..not to hijack a thread that appears to me to have moved to the other side of the looking glass....but there's so many restrictions/requirements on the proposed CCW bill in order to get it passed. You can look it up under LB 454 on the Nebraska Unicameral website.

For clarification the term "Rubbernecker" is synonomous with "Looky-lou" or "Sidewalk supervisor". It refers to uninvolved spectators at a traffic accident or crime scene.