down loading 10mm

[SSN Vet]

I'm hankering for a 1911...

considering 10mm

Can some one please advise me how the recoil of the 10mm in a steel framed commander vs. .45 in same platform?

How "sensitive" is the 10mm to reload?

Can you download for target plinking and still achieve proper function (action cycles reliably)?

I've owned a steel framed Gov't model in .45... though it was a long time ago.

I have no experience at all with 10mm

Thanks in advance for any insight you can share.

 

[Walkalong]

Recoil of full 10MM loads in a 1911 is significantly more than .45 recoil, but not bad. You can download the 10MM just fine. No problems at all. It will still cycle the gun unless you go real low, then you could use a lighter spring and be good to go. Downloading the 10MM is basically where the .40 came from. (10MM light)

 

[DELTAJOHN]

I'm unaware of a commander framed 10mm. I do own 3 Colt Delta Elites, they are Colt's 1911 in 10mm. I load them hot, I load them mellow, they all shoot nice. The gun is not a 44 mag, it is VERY EASY to shoot accurately.

The downside, ammo is hard to find. I have 2500 cases, no problem, I load them in all different flavors. I also converted one of the pistols to 40 S&W as well, (all you need is the barrel, and lighter recoil spring) cheap, plentiful ammo,
even CHEAPER to reload. Yes, I am a die hard 10mm fan. I'm now considering the EAA Witness match 10mm, another neat gun, and inexpensive.....

John

 

[ReloaderFred]

I have two Delta Elites, several Witnesses, a S&W 1006 and a S&W 610 revolver, all in 10mm. It's a great cartridge, but best with reloaded ammunition, since the current stable of commercial 10mm ammunition has been significantly downloaded from the original Norma specification of a 200 grain bullet at 1,200 fps. There are two companies making full power loads, Double Tap and Cor-Bon, though.

As noted, you can load them to just about any level, within the parameters set for the caliber. You can go as light as 135 grain bullets, and as heavy as 200 grain, though I've had the best accuracy with a cast bullet that falls from my SAECO mold at 206 grains.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[loadedround]

The 10 MM cartridge was designed as a reloader's dream in my opinion. Light target/plinking loads can be assembled with 175 gr cast lead bullets with some of the faster pistol powders to give you around 900-1,000 fps with recoil around a 38 Spl or 9 mm or you can bump it it to 1300 fps with 180 gr JHP bullets with Blue Dot(my favorite) or AA#9 to give almost 41 Mag power. Truly a versatile cartridge and a shame not more people are not using it today. Sure beats the 40 S&W(Short &Weak). I am truly fond of the 10MM Auto cartridge.

 

[MachIVshooter]

Can you download for target plinking and still achieve proper function (action cycles reliably)?

Within reason, certainly. If you try to load down to the level IPSC guys use, you're gonna need a lighter spring. By the same token, I tend to run nuclear loads, and so have gone with stouter springs in most of my guns to save the frame from being battered. That said, my 1006 remains unmodified and will run anything from hydra-shok factory ammo (weaker than .40 S&W) to my 1,400 FPS 180 grain handloads reliably.

 

[steve4102]

I'm unaware of a commander framed 10mm.

Dan Wesson CBOB 10mm. Purty Ain't It?


Shoot good too. 25 yards of a bag.


To bad DW has discontinued all 10 mm for 2010. If you want one better hurry up, they will soon be gone.

 

[Walkalong]

Yes it is....purty that is.

 

[SSN Vet]

Man... now I'm all torn up...

long rant... sorry

I really want a 1911... because...

1. it's an American icon
2. my first handgun was a 1911 (a used Auto Ordinance "stove pipe special"), and now after having had experience with several others pistols and revolvers, I think I appreciate more what the 1911 has to offer
3. sentimental value, as I qualified Expert Pistol with and carried one (though be it infrequently) while active duty.

I really want a .45 acp... because

1. it's just a classic American cartridge
2. it's the cartridge the 1911 was "made" for
3. it's "big and bad"

I've been sooooo close to pulling the trigger on a Dan Wesson CBOB in 45 twice in the last year.... Now the prices have gone up $300 (from $900 to $1,200) and that's IF you can find one, as they're only being sold in CA starting this year...

To tell you the truth.... with all the Cr@p CZ USA is pulling (discontinuing the CBOB and PM7, sucking up to CA and jacking prices ~30%)... I'm inclined to vote with my feet.

I've looked into Fusions.... and they look great! But will run $1,300 at the very bottom end... and $1,500 for my preference.... that's just beyond my means (3 young kids eating me out of house and home , not to mention making payroll for the tooth fairy).

But then again... I have as much fun reloading for my guns and tinkering with them (basement gunsmith here) as I do shooting them (just as an example, building a CNC milling machine is another project of mine). I'd just as soon have fewer guns and become somewhat of a subject matter expert on each carefully selected platform as have a safe full of guns that I don't shoot often or know much about. And the more I study the 1911, I realize that it is the KING of tinker handguns. So the more I think about it, I would really like to do my own custom build.... starting with a NIB series 80 NRM Colt Commander (M1991) (can have right now for $740).

So just to muddy the waters, some of my earlier searching has paid off and a dealer I've been keeping in contact with e-mailed me today to let me know he's just received what will probably be his last shipment of Dan Wessons, before their new changes are fully implemented. He's got a PM7 in .45 for $975 and a CBOB in 10mm for $1,100.

These are fine pitsols .... much better than I could hope to build myself ... and the pride of having "stewardship" of a real piece of quality craftsmanship would be high. But I wouldn't dare tinker with it.... and my wife will skin me alive if I drop that kind of money on a handgun, only to turn around in 6 months and want to fund a project gun.

I'm so confused

Usually when I get this way, my automatic response is to stand fast and do more study....

But the DW models that are within my means are all going away very, very soon.

All right .... pitty party over ... many guys would love to have such a dilema I'm sure...

any comments/advise appreciated

 

[jfh]

First, to answer your questions--

1. While I cannot comment on the commander-sized issues, I can on a 5" 1911 setup. I've owned several 10mms; currently I have a Kimber ST II 10mm and an EAA Witness Elite Match.

About recoil: in a 1911, the recoil of a 10mm Auto is "sharper" and "punchier"; it reflects the higher pressure specs. IMO, it's not an issue once you are accustomed to shooting 10mm except for maybe the very high-end reloads, or that original Norma 200-gr. load.

About reloading: The 10mm is very flexible--my own shooting is now done with a 170-180 gr. LSWC / LRNFP running about 1050-1100, usually under WSF. On the Kimber, I used a lighter spring; on the EAA, no mods are needed.

Particularly with the 1911, it's a relatively simple matter to set up the pistol for the kind of ballistics you want with either cartridge. Most 1911s (the good ones) for 10mm are set up with fully-ramped barrels, not with the traditional ramp-in-the frame design. With this in mind, if you want to shoot both calibers in a 1911 pistol, you really end up needing two pistols.

FWIW, I built up my own 1911 off a SA frame starting about twenty years ago, using a combination of drop-in and fitted parts. Ed Brown grip safety, Wilson safeties and mag release, Bar-Sto barrel fitted, etc., etc. Eventually topped off with a new tutone finish. In the (average) 1995 dollars, I have about $1600.00 in it. In today's dollars, that's the equivalent of the $2500-plus 1911s discussed in another thread here. As fun as it was--and I learned to detail-strip, etc., etc.--it is not the equivalent value to the nominal $1000-1200 1911s available now. The point is, I learned alot--but for good value, today's "enhanced / complete" guns in the $1000-plus range are excellent values. For what they are, even the cheaper (RIA?, Taurus, etc.) are not bad guns.

But, the best value for a 10mm pistol is the EAA Witness series. Basically a CZ-75 design, they have 1911 ergonomics with the changes Jeff Cooper (and others) thought a 1911-designed-in-1975 would have. He got it about 90% right, IMO.

EAA pistols have their own set of problems, chief of which is the attitude of the Importer. Their QC can be spotty. But, for about $520-$750 dollars, depending on which upgrade model you'd consider--Elite Match, or Stock(1)--they really can't be beat. And, if the grip fits your hand and feels good, they're easier to shoot.

Here is a link to a mini-review, and subsequent discussion, of my EAA 10mm Elite Match and the 10mm Kimber ST II. Given your budgetary needs and your gunny consumption, an EAA might be the way for you to go right now.

You could get the Elite Match 10mm for about $520 plus, I think, and add a 45ACP switch top and mags for about another $300.00--and be able to shoot and reload both!

Jim H.

 

[sqlbullet]

If you don't mind 45ACP +p, then you won't mind 10mm Auto. It is not a recoil monster, despite what you may have read. My Witness Elite Match is my wife's favorite gun to shoot.

It reloads very well across a wide range of bullets styles, weights and velocities. Most 10mm guns actually arrive from the factory more appropriately sprung for full power 40S&W power levels than full power 10mm auto. Many guys who load to the cartridges full potential swap up to 20, 22, and even 24 lb recoil springs. Many are also advocates of heavier mainsprings.

Like JFH, I love my Witness's. I have two, and both are great shooters.

But, like you, I also love the 1911 lines. I would suggest you jump on that CBOB for $1100. Like the man said, they aren't making them anymore, so if you don't like it, you can surely get your money back.

 

[SSN Vet]

thanks for all the reples...

much fuel for thought...

I've concluded that I'm going to get a 1911 platform... commander length in .45 acp.

I'm still very interested in the 10mm but will defer that for a later date.

The Dan Wesson dream will slip away into the anals of guns lusted for past.

 

[steve4102]

I've concluded that I'm going to get a 1911 platform... commander length in .45 acp.

http://www.gunsamerica.com/91010178...an_Wesson_1911_AI_Classic_Commander_45ACP.htm

http://www.gunsamerica.com/964778574/Guns/Pistols/1911-Pistol-Copies/DAN_WESSON_CCO.htm