Draw your weapon to fire or to scare away?

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all of this "If I draw I will always fire" stuff that is so rampant on the internet just sounds like a bunch of chest thumping B.S. to me.
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+1

I think a lot of people need to read the thread the OP was talking about and find out that why "brandishing" deescalates a lot of bad situations.
It may not be technically legal but, do you think a person who was about to commit a crime will run to authorities and complain that his crime was halted because the target was armed?
Learn from that thread, I know I did.
 
Your gun is not a Samari sword and doesn't need to be bloodied when ever drawn. (at least thats the myth I heard)
If its a blind side attack and you are struck across the back of the head then you better come up fighting but if you are being cut off in parking lot as you walk to your car and can see a potential problem you can keep space and if you deem the threat credible draw the weapon and prepare to fire if needed.
I don't see a one size fits all situation in personal defense, nor do I think it is wise to play fair with criminals by keeping a gun secured in a holster until the last instance.
 
Maybe "scare" is the wrong word. Let me quote 1 of the stories to make my point more clear.

About five years ago I was visiting friends with the now ex. Warm climate state that may not allow concealed carry. Anyway, at the time I carried a Beretta Tomacat 32 auto, inside the front waistband in a small clip type holster. Set up worked well in the hot climate with light clothing. One night the ex and I decided to walk to the corner store that was about half a mile down the road. The friends lived in a subdivision near a fairly well travelled road and the store was on that road.

We made it OK, then as we walked out of the store, a pickup with a bunch of late teenish males pulled into the parking lot and jumped out. We crossed an intersection and were walking down the sidewalk on the side of that main road when I looked back and noticed that the teens did not go into the store but rather two were trailing us about 40 yards back and the other two had crossed the road and were opposite us, walking fast to pass us. When they got about 50 yards ahead, they crossed and we were in between the two pairs. The ones in front slowing down while the two behind picked up the pace.

Without a word I handed my big gulp to the ex, half discretely pulled the .32 out and chambered a round, keeping the pistol low and in front of me. One of the fellows in front happenend to see this and the two groups quickly dispersed.
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I'm constantly amazed at how many people that carry can find a million ways NOT to fire.
I understand no one wants to shoot another human.
But when your mind goes "Oh crap he's gonna kill me" it's time.
No talking, No waving a gun around.
Draw. Shoot.
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Unless that's the voice of experience then don't criticize those of us who've had to make those choices please.

As Katana8869 said,
Self defense is just like most other things in this world. No two circumstances are the same and nothing is absolute.
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Trust me, until you have to make the shoot/no shoot decision you DO NOT know how you will react.
 
Originally posted by M2Carbine:
I actually did a couple times years ago and both times the man's actions and words were, "I'm going to stick that gun up your ***", and the fight was on.
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So you're saying two guys stuck your gun up your ass?:neener:

I've never been in the situation but I wouldn't draw unless I thought I needed to fire. If ever in the situation,I have no idea what I will do.
 
Don't ever present unless you are pretty sure you are about to use it. The situation quoted by the OP was NOT justified to draw a gun.

There could exist situations where I would PREPARE to draw while stopping short of actually doing it. But if you have time to prepare to draw, pause, and wait to see what happens, you also have time to GET OUT OF THERE.
 
Fortunately I have not had to shoot someone nor have I been shot at. Even more fortunately the one time I was held at gunpoint the guy had second thoughts and beat it out of there.
In the defensive handgun class (yes, I KNOW it's not real life) I took they told us to start shooting at 21 ft, do not wait for the assailant to close that gap. I would hope at 21 ft he has had time to change his mind but if I have drawn the pistol I already have made up mine.
 
It all depends on the situation doesn't it...?...If your being attacked an stabbed at, I would like to think I would be firing as fast as I could to stop it. As one post implied, if I'm somewhere an being surrounded an feel this could be a threat, I would probably pull my shirt back an put a hand on my 1911 so they could see it, there motives should become clear after that, which would tell me what to do next, try an escape, ask them to stop approaching me....I would rather try an change someones mind who has intent in harming me if the situation allows it....thats a big "if" isn't it....
 
The vast majority of times when a firearm is used in self defense it is not fired. Food for thought.

If I can defuse a situation by displaying a firearm, I will. In Florida, the display of a firearm in self defense is considered to be non-lethal force. If showing you a pistol will deescalate a situation BEFORE I get to the point where I feel the need to fire, I may save my self twenty thousand bucks and a jail term.

IMO, people who say "If I draw it, I will use it" are either spouting macho horse puckeys, or will wind up drawing a weapon when it is too late. Think about all of the situations where the DISPLAY of a firearm is in itself an act of self defense, and where the discharge of said firearm may not be called for.
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Spot on, divemedic. I completely agree.

It seems to me that those who have stated that they will only draw in order to fire and will under no circumstances brandish their weapon really have not completely thought through the whole use of deadly force continuum.

I will draw my firearm when I have a reasonable expectation that I may need to use it. If "brandishing" my firearm will diffuse a potentially deadly situation, I will readily do so. However, if I believe that brandishing my firearm will only further exacerbate the situation, I will keep my weapon concealed.
 
From previous experience, I believe in handling all situations like I dont have a gun. That doesnt mean acting weak or afraid, as a matter of fact it means acting confident, alert, and competant.

I spent several yrs as a park ranger in NYC's Central Park....unarmed. I had to handle many situations with all kinds of people, and deal with crimes and criminals...mainly as a first responder....unarmed. Having no gun made me a much better diplomat (yes, this wont appeal to the macho here) and much better at diffusing situations rather than escalating them.

I couldnt afford to escalate it having no physical defense and the responsibility for bystanders, and I couldnt 'make' anyone involved stand there and talk to me or give me their ID...I had to convince them to do so.

I learned early not to 'threaten' to get the cops involved, or say "I'm going to hold you here until blah blah," etc. Same as brandishing....if you're not prepared to back up your threat, you look like an ass and lose all authority. We were very skilled at verbally diffusing situations or just getting innocents involved OUT, period.

Of course, law enforcement was not our primary job, envir education and protecting park resources were. But we were trained by NYPD and worked with them all the time. As I said, we were usually first on a scene and people came to us/involved us in conflicts. We learned the safest ways to deal with situations without guns.

I still try to do that now, gun or no. I handle situations like I'm not armed. (thus far I havent felt in any danger since carrying.) I would only draw *if the circumstances warranted* (threat to life that I couldnt avoid) and then be happy as hell if there was no need to fire.
 
The situation quoted by the OP was NOT justified to draw a gun.
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Tell that to the guy in the story who drew his gun and is still alive/not robbed.
Notice the story didn't end in the 4 "innocent" teens calling the police to complain they surprisingly had a gun drawn on them while they were getting ice cream after band practice.
He diffused their evil intentions and lived another day to tell about it.
 
The situation quoted by the OP was NOT justified to draw a gun.
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Tell that to the guy in the story who drew his gun and is still alive/not robbed.
Notice the story didn't end in the 4 "innocent" teens calling the police to complain they surprisingly had a gun drawn on them while they were getting ice cream after band practice.
He diffused their evil intentions and lived another day to tell about it.
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He had no way of knowing their intentions. He made an assumption. Believe it or not, not everyone walking down the street behind you is planning to rob and murder you.

Sure, there were some red flags, and he did well by noticing them and handing his beverage to his companion to free up his hands, but he was absolutely not justified in drawing his weapon as nothing had happened that would warrant the use of deadly force.
 
B yond said:
he was absolutely not justified in drawing his weapon as nothing had happened that would warrant the use of deadly force.
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Should he have waited until the four teens were close enough to be able to grab him and his girlfriend?
 
Should he have waited until the four teens were close enough to be able to grab him and his girlfriend?
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These teens were just walking down the sidewalk. Sure, it was a little suspicious that they split into two groups, but they could have done that for any number of reasons. They had not done anything threatening.
 
Oh, and if someone is getting closer to you than you're comfortable with, telling them to back off or keep their distance seems more appropriate than just pulling a gun.
 
I live in a 'may-issue' state where CCW issuance is left up to the discretion of the sheriff. I'm lucky enough to have one of the few sheriffs in the state who will actually consider issuing them.

I have a feeling that he'd stop issuing them if the people he issued them to started drawing their weapons on teenagers because they were acting suspicious or following people down the sidewalk.

We have to remember that our actions could affect the future of CCW in our areas. Drawing your weapon unnecessarily creates a negative image of CCWers. It could also land you an assault w/deadly weapon or brandishing charge.
 
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Don't ever present unless you are pretty sure you are about to use it. The situation quoted by the OP was NOT justified to draw a gun.
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I can't believe nobody has mentioned the fact that the situation quoted by the OP was one where the guy was not packing cocked and locked.

"half discretely pulled the .32 out and chambered a round"

For sure this guy would have had to pull his weapon out much sooner than anyone else packing cocked and locked. He didn't have a chambered round, and that would have most likely gotten him killed had the teens gotten close enough and had bad intentions in mind.

Trust me, until you have to make the shoot/no shoot decision you DO NOT know how you will react.
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So true! You can train and plan all you want. One thing is guaranteed, it isn't going to go down the way you thought it was going to.

I have no problem with pulling a gun and using it for leverage to avoid shooting someone. The police do it all the time. They don't just pull their gun and fire on a bad guy. But, my first course of action, especially if I am alone, is to put space between me and someone I am uncomfortable with.
 
I agree. Take this scenario: You witness an old, defenseless woman having her purse stolen and struggling with the snatcher, a big guy twice your size. You intervene by shouting at the guy, but he ignores you. What to do? You can pull your concealed carry, jump on the guy, or walk away..........Now, if you decide to draw and try to use that as a way to get him to stop and he keeps at it, do you shoot him? If you have a safe shot, is it a reasonable action? Fear of bodily injury defense? Sure, a jury of your peers would probably clear you after some liberal minded DA charges you. But the hassle over a purse?!
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That liberal minded DA is likely right to charge you, having a concealed carry permit and carrying a firearm doesn't turn you into a law enforcement officer. If you draw a weapon, even though the criminal is committing a crime against the old, defenseless woman. You now have crossed the line into the area of committing a crime yourself.

I don't know how other states view of the level of responsibility a CCW holder has in a case where you draw a firearm, but Ohio's was related to me that you exercise every possible act you can to defuse a potential violent encounter before even considering drawing a firearm. The scenario you describe is an escalation of a potentially violent encounter in my opinion.
 
I have no problem with pulling a gun and using it for leverage to avoid shooting someone. The police do it all the time.
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The police do a lot of things private citizens should not do.

having a concealed carry permit and carrying a firearm doesn't turn you into a law enforcement officer.
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+1

CCW is about preservation of human life. It isn't about stopping purse snatchers or scaring away teenagers who are following you down the sidewalk.

It comes down to the right tool for the job. Just because you're carrying a hammer, doesn't mean everything you see is a nail. A CCW is a suitable tool for defending human life. A verbal command is an appropriate tool for preventing a group of suspicious teens from getting uncomfortably close to you. A cell phone camera is a suitable tool for helping some old lady identify a purse snatcher to the authorities.

We don't need to go around drawing on teenagers and shooting purse snatchers.
 
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The police do a lot of things private citizens should not do.
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Of course they do, but I don't think pulling a weapon and giving a warning before killing someone is a bad idea.
 
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