It happened to me, Carry stories

[Dambugg]

I was living in Lynwood Ca. during the Rodney King riots. On the first day of the riots I was watering my front lawn watching my neighbors unload presumably stolen goods from their vehicles, as two blocks away the strip mall was being looted and burned. A young man (mid twenties) was riding towards me on a bicycle. A van full of young men of an ethnicity different than the cyclist passed me going the other diretion down the street. There was comotion in the van and they turned around, sped up, and hit the back tire of the bicycle with the bumper of the van. The van was going about 30-35 mph. The cyclist flew off the bike tumbling on the sidewalk. His hands, arms, and face were dripping blood. He looked at me and said, "what the f*&k is going on?" as the van passengers started to exit. I dropped the hose and ran approx. 20 feet to the door of the house where right inside was my Rem. 20 gauge. I chambered a round and leveled it at the assailant nearest the cyclist. Time stood still. everything went silent and all I could see was the barrel, the assailant, and the cyclist. Very slowly the men got in the van. Once in the van they sped away. The cyclist thanked me and asked how to get out of the neighborhood. I told him and he carried the bike stumbling down the street.
During the riots I saw people turn into animals and have been weary of many people ever since.

 

[Backpacker33]

Assaulted in Chicago

I was 18 and my best friend was 19 when we were assaulted and nearly killed on Chicago’s South Side.

He had married his high school sweetheart and they had one baby. They were living in an apartment and Roger worked for a bill collection and repossession agency while managing some bands on the side. He held a brown belt in Tae Kwon Do, stood six feet one inch and was a very fit 180 lbs. I was six feet and a skinny 165-lb track and cross-country runner.

Roger got tired of being assaulted while doing his job and quit, deciding to move back to our home town. I went with one of his cousins to help. He called his mom for some money to pay the breaking of his lease and help with moving expenses. His mom wired a hundred dollars to a Wells Fargo office on the South Side instead of to one near his home and they told him he had to go there to get it. He and I headed out.

We walked to an “El” station which let us off a few blocks from WF. Once inside they gave Roger the money, which he put behind a cigarette pack in his shirt pocket. So far as I recall, the only person other than myself who saw where he put it was the woman behind the counter.

We headed back toward the El station. A few blocks before it six males between the ages of about 16 and maybe 25 started following us and then surrounded us. They said we weren’t supposed to be there. We are white, they were all black and we were in what was known to anyone who lived there as a “black neighborhood.” Note: I AM NOT MAKING THIS A RACIAL INCIDENT. Thugs are thugs.

We told them we didn’t have any money and started trying to walk away when one guy, the biggest of the bunch, said “That money in your pocket.” He pointed at Roger’s shirt pocket, then his hand flashed out and he tore the pocket off, getting the money. We attempted to run but they jumped on us. Roger got one powerful kick into the big guy, stopping him cold, but the other five started hitting us with chains and clubs and swiping at us with knives.

Within seconds we were both beaten bloody and our jackets were cut to ribbons. We were also both cut many times. I was falling to my knees and Roger would have been only seconds behind.

We dimly heard some shouting and the thugs took off running. We looked around to see a black man in his mid 20s, wearing a sharp business suit and pointing a small black revolver at the running thugs. At the time, I knew nothing about guns. It might have been either a S&W J-frame or Colt Detective Special or similar. He asked us if we were OK. We hadn’t been seriously damaged but we were exhausted, shaking almost uncontrollably, bleeding, and in pain, but told him we could walk. We begged him to stay with us until the police came because we were terrified the thugs would return.

“Oh no,” he said. “I can’t do that! No black man can get a gun permit in Chicago.” I didn’t know, then, that NO honest person could carry a gun in Chicago. He attempted to assure us we’d be OK until the cops came, and he left.

We walked to a phone booth on the corner and I dropped a dime and touched “0”. This was long before “911.”

The cop who answered the phone grilled me about what we thought we were doing in “that part of town.” Were we tough guys? Looking for trouble? No matter how I tried to explain it his interest was in what we bad-ass white boys were doing outside “our” part of town. I told him we had been robbed and had no money, could they please give us a ride out of there? He then berated me, telling me the police department is not a taxi service.

Roger got very agitated listening to me and grabbed the phone, telling the cop that he was a martial arts expert and couldn’t be held responsible for what might happen if we were attacked again. He got an “A” from me for chutzpa. The cop said “Wait right there.”

I was now afraid of the police. About 20 minutes later a squad pulls around the corner and a HUGE black cop got out. Again: I AM NOT CALLING THIS RACIAL. He wanted to know which of us was the “Karate expert” and Roger stepped up. The cop threw some Japanese words at him, which Roger knew. I again asked for a ride and was again told they were not a cab service.

He continued to hammer on us with the theme of Are you a couple tough guys? and What do you think you’re doing in THIS part of town? That’s when I finally said that if it hadn’t been for the guy with the gun we’d be dead.

Everything changed.

The cop was no longer interested in the least about the thugs, us or what they had done to us, or why we were there. He was focused exclusively on the guy who had saved our lives. He even called it in. Roger and I almost got in big trouble because we gave differing description of the guy. We covered by saying he was there for only a few seconds while we were on the ground and in pain. The cop kept us there for about another half-hour, grilling us about the “man with the gun.” Not even an offer to take us to a hospital, despite the blood.

And then he left us there. We still had a few dollars in our wallets and walked to a bus stop.

And another group of tough-looking youths walked up to us and started “asking” for cigarettes and money. We started trying to move away from them. We could see the bus coming and prayed it would stop. As it neared we dashed into the street and saw the driver was black and we feared he wouldn’t stop. He slowed to about walking speed and opened the door. We dove in, Roger throwing a kick at one of the thugs who tried to grab him. I don’t think it connected, but Roger got another “A” from me. As the driver accelerated and closed the door we heard one of the thugs yell “We’re the Vice Lords and we’ll KILL you M***** F***** if you ever come back!” For anyone who doesn’t know, the Vice Lords were (and maybe still are) one of the most murderous gangs in Chicago. They got great police protection from any potentially armed public.

The driver said he could see we were already hurt as he pulled up and thought those guys had done it. We gave him a quick rundown, leaving a lot out. He told us where to get off the bus and gave us a transfer pass. He did not make us pay.

A few months later I bought my first gun and within a year had taken up boxing and Karate. I did foolish things with that gun, carrying it illegally, and carrying it loaded though I had never fired a handgun (it was a semi-auto) and had no idea how to properly use it. I didn’t learn proper gun handling and use until I entered the military at age 21.

Roger was drafted and spent a year in Vietnam as a tank commander. He came back with a drug habit and has never been the same. Their son fell ill and died less than a year later. His wife went on with her life, divorcing Roger and trying to raise their other son as a single mom. After a few years she gave up and gave him to her aunt and uncle to raise. She lives in northern Illinois and the adult son is married and lives well in central Illinois. Roger is a lost soul.

I try to stay out of Chicago and will never trust a Chicago cop.

 

[cleardiddion]

That's a really depressing story.
Still it's something to learn from

 

[Backpacker33]

A friend of mine actually had to shoot a pit bull that lost it's mind tried to attack kids at a bus stop. Did attack a man who intervened. Attacked his cat and ultimately bit him. He shot it 3 times, once through the jowls at close range, a snap shot as he was being bit or right before. Next shot right after that one blew the dogs ear off. You think either of those phased it. Nope. The thing disengaged the ran in a tight circle at the guy he had just attacked and the friend fired again classic side shot through the middle. The dog rolled over and ran back home. 2 months later the dog came back for some more....

He was using a .45 for the record (competition gun with a 5" barrel). For all of those who think .45 means instant death.

So what could have happened? Who knows, but animals can and do attack and it ALWAYS happens when you least expect it.

I grew up in a town of about 27,000 people. When I was a boy there was a terrible problem with wild dogs. They would mostly just dump garbage cans or attack other dogs and cats, but did, on rare occasion, attack people. My dad kept a small semi-auto in a kitchen drawer by the back door. I still vividly recall him grabbing it and yanking the back door open, always at night, to shoot a dog. I don't know what kind of gun it was or what happened to it.

 

[Deus Machina]

I'll share mine...

My job is near the local theater, with clothing stores, an ice cream parlor, and a pizzeria. Popular teenager hangout, but the high-schoolers in the busy times rarely make a problem. The local shops do have a serious problem with shoplifting though, and only the rare but persistent mugging or robbery--come dark, the cops come and hang around to keep the theater-goers tame. Nice place on a friday night, if you stay in the well-lit parking areas.

Today is a weekday, sun down but before the crowds--and the police--show up. I'm walking to the deli that will be closing in half an hour, with my hands in my pockets. One would have been on my Taurus M85 if I hadn't been at work.

Guy slips out from a pillar--excessively baggy jeans, white hoody with the hood up (this is Florida in fall, I was comfortable in my T-shirt, and it was humid). White guy, a couple tattoos visible at the side of his neck.

Guy:"Hey man, have any change?"
Me:"Nope, sorry."
G:"C'mon, you have to help me out."
M:"I don't have any, sorry." I start moving again, getting in view of the local shop windows.
G:"I just need a little money."
M:"I don't have any. Sorry, man."
Guy's tone had changed from 'panhandling' to 'demanding.' "Listen, just a little money."
M: "Sorry, partner. I don't have any on me."
G: "You don't understand. Just give me a little money, dude." At this point, he doesn't just walk slowly to follow me, he moves to a long stride, closing in--and his hand starts moving to his sweatshirt pocket.
I pull on the clip on my pen (my pen's on me more than my gun!) and release it, for a very good impersonation of a certain very destinctive 'click'. Your body language is the most important thing, bluff or no.
He very quickly draws up short and moves his hand away from its progress to his pocket. We lock eyes, mine hardened and his mildly surprised.
M: "I don't have any money on me. Move on."
G: "Uh, right, boss."

He backs up a few steps, I stay in place and stare at him, until he turns around and walks off down the parking lot.

I turn, step into the deli, and the owner is already on the phone giving a description. The owner from the chinese place next door steps in holding his phone, and I find out that this guy had accosted the last few people through, but he had gotten far more 'friendly' in my case. I let the restaurent owners know where to point anyone that wants to talk to me, order my food (at a discount!) and eat it at the deli so I'm not quick enough to bump into that guy again.

 

[QUICK_DRAW_McGRAW]

this happened a few weeks back. my wife and i had our niece over for the weekend. it was time for her to go back home so i get out of my leisure cloths and into some jeans and a T-shirt. i stop for a second and look at my .357 snubbie and wonder if i should grab it or not since im just driving 10 minutes to her moms house to drop her off and come him since its snowing.

i got dressed and tossed the snubbie on my hip and grabbed my 2 HKS speed loaders and head out.

few minutes down the road we are coming to a red light when a red car speeds up and cuts me off so i have to slam on my brakes so i don't get hit or hit him.

frustrated i tap my horn at him. he starts jumping around and waving his arms while telling me im number 1 with both hands.

light turns green and he take off on our way. he changes into the number 1 lane and i stay in the number 2 lane. he has a few cars pull out in front of him causing him to slow down and swerve in behind me.

now he is honking and flashing his high beam's at me to speed up, im doing 35 in a 30 already so i ignore him and keep talking with my wife and niece.

i eventually get into the right lane and he come speeding up and is trying to split the 1 and 2 lanes between me and the audi to my left. we get to the next light and he is so close to the back of my car i can only see half of his windshield.

when the light turn green i start to let out the clutch and try to pull away. well in the process i roll back maybe 3-5 inches and its just enough to tap his car.

again he starts honking and flipping me off, well in washington its his fault for following too closely. i think nothing of it because my wife and niece didn't notice it. well up the road a little ways further i get into the number 2 lane to turn left. he speeds up next to me and as both my wife and i look over at him he points a 1911 at us.

my wife is instantly on the phone with 911, i try to make a immediate left onto another side street to get away but on coming traffic has me stopped in the center turn lane so he pulls up in front of my car and gets out.

when he opens the door i draw my .357 and have it on my lap under my coat so he cannot see it because at this time i do not see his gun. he walks to my drivers window and holds a department of corrections badge to my window then walks off getting on his phone.

i stayed in my car and made sure to tell the 911 operator that i am a CPL holder and that i am carrying right now and have a .357 on my strong side IWB.

when the police arrive we are all brought out at gun point in the middle of the main road in town. all but my niece are in different cars and in cuffs. once they get the story he is hauled off for assault with a deadly weapon with intent to do bodily harm and we are released on our way.

i talked with the LEO's and they said i did the right thing, but i did have the right to shoot once he pointed his gun at me. i told them i was ready and willing, but only if he had got out with it in hand. i could not live with letting my 13 year old niece see me kill someone, or him or i miss and someone else be hurt.

the detective that is handling the case even stated that we did everything perfectly on the 911 call, letting the operator know i am a permit holder, as well as being calm and speaking clearly on the phone so they could get officers there ASAP.

 

[BadAndy]

Back in graduate school 3 friends and I used to go hiking and fishing down on the Obed river in Tennessee. It was in a very remote area and the hunting and fishing editor for the local paper (who my friend knew) had warned us not to go unarmed as it was full of rattlers and hillbillys. So I'm fishing at our favorite spot, my friends girlfriend (attractive) catching some rays on a rock behind me, and my other 2 friends fishing about 25 yds downstream (out of sight). All of a sudden 3 rednecks enter the clearing from a path along the river. They immediately focus on the girl and start asking stupid questions like "what are you doing?" in a tone that I know means trouble is coming. At this point they are on my left and I am looking at them sideways while facing the river. I have a fishing pole in my left hand and they cant see the Dan Wesson 357 holstered on my right hip. I can see the ringleader has a 22 pistol and his buds are standing a little behind him at the edge of the clearing (about 10 yards from me). One of them has a belt knife. I undid the retention strap from the holster and put my hand on the grip, all unseen by them. Their comments start becoming suggestive and insulting and up until then my responses have been terse but polite. Then the leader says something like "you must be a stupid a-hole cause you got this nice girl here and you is fishin. Lets show him what he should be doing". They took a step and I turned to face them so they could now see the gun still in the holster but with my hand on the grip. They stopped short and I told them in no uncertain terms to turn around and go back where they came from and if he touched his gun he would be a dead man. This was no idle treat since at that time in my life I was somewhat of a quick draw enthusiast and could draw and put the first shot in a target 7 yards away in 1.2 seconds and follow up with the rest in well under 3. In any case they muttered something about not wanting any trouble and left. At that point we hightailed it to where our other 2 friends (armed with a 22 woodsman and a 45 gold cup) were fishing, told them what happened and we all left the area in a direction opposite of the rednecks. In discussing the incident afterward, my friends girl had no doubt about what the rednecks intended to do.

 

[sonier]

i like all these stories, and in my opinion every one used good judgement, no one has been killed from misuse of firearms.
Keep them coming this is my favorite thread, shows me options

 

[darksidemxer]

GA outside of florida i went outside my hotel room to buy a drink, apparently it was a rough area as i saw lots of prostitutes and "thugs" as i made my way back to my room i had 4 guys following me say they "just wanna little chat" lucky for me i left the door to the room cracked and told my gf where i was going. she was smiling standing in the door way with my xdm 40 at stomach level with the green dot laser aiming up at the 1st guys chest. the others stopped seeing the green beam in the shining through the air. she laughed saying "i got 16 hollow points, and im willing to use them" the next morning we told the clerk who smiled saying "we always have issues with drunks here"

 

[wbwanzer]

This is a wonderful thread. I've read every post, and if I am correct, the only shots fired have been at attacking animals. No one has had to fire at a person yet. I live in the Peoples Republic of Maryland and am envious of all these folks who can carry. I have a Utah non-res carry permit that I can use in neighboring states but have not had the chance yet. There is a lot of responsibility that goes along with carrying and I don't take it lightly.

 

[hammerklavier]

A few posts up someone fired at attacking people in a car.

I agree this is a very good thread and from what I remember everyone used reasonably good judgment. Very educational!

 

[SalchaketJoe]

This thread turned out exactly how I had envisioned; a little case study learning.

 

[Darkninja]

GA outside of florida i went outside my hotel room to buy a drink, apparently it was a rough area as i saw lots of prostitutes and "thugs" as i made my way back to my room i had 4 guys following me say they "just wanna little chat" lucky for me i left the door to the room cracked and told my gf where i was going. she was smiling standing in the door way with my xdm 40 at stomach level with the green dot laser aiming up at the 1st guys chest. the others stopped seeing the green beam in the shining through the air. she laughed saying "i got 16 hollow points, and im willing to use them" the next morning we told the clerk who smiled saying "we always have issues with drunks here"

Seems like she could have gotten in trouble for brandishing a firearm. Even if you were being followed by four guys they didn't attempt to attack you or make any suggestion that they were. Just for clarification I'm sure they did intend to mug you, however it doesn't seem like a smart idea to line the laser up on their chest like that unless they made some sort of move to attack. Were they making any movements that could be interpreted as going for a firearm or some other weapon?
Also I asked before in another thread, could their be any legal trouble from telling a would be mugger, rapist, etc that you "will blow their full of holes if they take another step"?

 

[Erik M]

could their be any legal trouble from telling a would be mugger, rapist, etc that you "will blow their full of holes if they take another step"?

I wouldnt use that terminology, and over sympathetic D.A. might not think much of it. It is not illegal to inform someone that if they intend to harm you that you intend to defend yourself with force. If four 'thugs' were closing on you I doubt any ninja would wait for them to make the first move.

 

[darksidemxer]

well if by following me and saying "we just wanna talk" in that kind of menacing way then yes i refused to look back and pay them any mind for the reason that i figured it would only provoke them, i do know 1 of them had a knife cuz he was picking his teeth with it moments before i turned to head back. i would rather take my chances with the legalities, than have them try to rush me on my way to the room.

 

[Darkninja]

I wouldnt use that terminology, and over sympathetic D.A. might not think much of it. It is not illegal to inform someone that if they intend to harm you that you intend to defend yourself with force. If four 'thugs' were closing on you I doubt any ninja would wait for them to make the first move.

There's a difference between between pointing a firearm at someone who is actually coming after you where you fear for your life, as opposed to guys walking behind you [regardless of their intent, and what we assume they intended to do to you, they could call the cops and say some crazy girl was pointing a gun at them and saying she was going to shoot him.] Then it's you and your girlfriend's word against four guys.
Now I'm just a young guy, I don't have my CHL and I'm not a lawyer. This is just an opinion and if anyone can teach me anything regarding this that I do not know, it would be much appreciated.

 

[Captain33036]

Something a little different:

My cousin and I both worked in Manhattan, a long time ago in our early 20's. He was a musician and I worked in a medical center way up on the East side. I drove in each day from about an hour north where we both lived and usually parked on 102 or 105th St.

One night, the plan was for me to meet him in the Village, catch the gig and then we would both head back to my car, uptown and drive out. I had not been able to catch him playing for some time, so this was going to be fun. Always fun to be "with the band" and we had a really great time.

It was late, when he was done, after hours and time to go home. We headed out to the subway with his two guitars. No problem at all.

As we headed up town, there were fewer and fewer people on the subway train. Being native NY'kers, we are not generally bothered by being out in the city late at night, but we are aware of our surroundings. I have to say, I grew a little concerned, afterall, we have two of his most expensive guitars and they were worth quite a bit of money.

Further up town, it got to the point where we were alone on the train, except for a couple of unsavory, gang looking youths. I then mentioned my concern to my cousin, who had lived in the city for a while. He said, "no problem" and that he would take care of it.

We changed trains in mid town and were going to then catch the subway to my car...uptown, east side, right next to Harlem. My cousin knew this and seemingly unconcerned, ran over to the magazine stand to get something.

We jumped on the train heading up and found we were again alone, but for the now three unsavory, gang type yoots for company. They were pretty focused on us.

Now, being a native NY'ker, I am not the nervous type, but I did nudge my cousin and point out the fact that we were being watched.....and asked him if we should perhaps get off the train.

He said no, not to worry, he had it handled.

And with that, took the magazine out, that he had just purchased at the station, sat back and opened up it broadly, so that the yoots could see.

And there we were, two young guys with long, flat rectangular guitar cases, reading SOLDIER OF FORTUNE magazine.

The yoots quickly moved further down the car and never looked our way again.



Thanks and hope you enjoyed.

Best

J

 

[darksidemxer]

after asking my uncle who is a tampa PD officer, he said any1 the SHOWS *lifts their shirt etc* their firearm is considered brandishing in the way that they are using it in the defense to intimidate their possible WOULD be attackers....IF you are legally carrying and had proper reason to believe the person is going to do you harm MOST of the time the officers will warn you to not do it again. thats just his opinion and knowing what alot of the officers he works with would do. He said while her pointing the gun may have been excessive, he said his wife would have done the same thing *if he was unarmed*& she saw 4 guys hot on his heels trying to start crap. im not trying to argue and start and issue, im glad she did what she did, cuz i would rather get **** for what we did than something much worse have happened.

 

[sonier]

well put dark, maybe ninja boy will just drop it. i hate it when people argue. i havnt really ever heard of attempted muggers and such that would go to the police and call cops, lol heck they prolly had warrants out for arrest or cops knew them pretty well. plus we all know that not many cops would believe a drunk guy that you tryed to kill him lol

point is no one was harmed in my books good judgement

 

[Impureclient]

Ninjas, assassins, operators....Please read this quote from Lee, the moderator in here:

If you want to natter, nitpick or criticize in a nonconstructive manner... please don't waste your time posting.

Don't let this thread die. We can learn so much from these stories.
.
.

 

[darksidemxer]

thanks sonier, like i said i dont wanna argue, whats done is done, and i honestly dont care bout the methods but if it kept me out of the hospital and saved my gf from any sort of horrific things then all is well. im 155lb's 5'11...i work out but im not chuck norris, i cant take on 4 grown guys that dont feel much pain cuz they are drunk...i would end up probly dead over something as dumb as them just wanting to brawl.

 

[sonier]

exactly now lets keep the stories coming, this is by far best thread id love it as a sticky.

 

[Fred Fuller]

There are lots of self defense stories at http://www.claytoncramer.com/gundefenseblog/blogger.html . And more at http://www.nraila.org/ArmedCitizen/Default.aspx .

Knock off the nitpicking if you want this one to stay open... one more time, this is NOT your little brother's Internet.

lpl

 

[Kindrox]

Lee,

Please don't close the thread. If anything please whack the nonesense.

 

[tbone1973]

I am a lawyer and reading through these posts, there is a lot of confusion as to what constitutes self-defense. A person is allowed to defend themselves when they have a "reasonable apprehension of imminent bodily harm." This doesn't mean that an attacker has to take the first punch or draw a weapon or threaten somebody in a specific way. Another important concept is that you can claim self-defense when you are defending others who could claim self-defense.

I think Darksidemxer's wife was within her rights. I think any person with street smarts would have perceived the four thugs to be a threat whether or not they had brandished a weapon. She saw that her husband was being threatened and was therefore allowed to defend him.

The analysis for what constitutes self-defense comes down to a "reasonableness analysis."