It happened to me, Carry stories

[Rawb77]

Great story RoostRider! I bet you were relieved when you saw that cop car pull in right when it did!

I always smirk at the irony of someone pulling the racism card, when in turn doing that itself is being racist. (in an instance such as the above)

 

[rcl5445]

At least you are lucky to push in a truck. They dont give me a truck, I get a shovel and am not allowed to carry a gun at work.

 

[SSN Vet]

Roostrider,

I've covered my buddies plow route for him from time to time.... mostly residential and small businesses... no "hood" so to speak of nearby...

All I can add to your story is a confirmation that big trucks with 10' plows can be quite unruley and are a far cry from precision insturments. I was always petrified that I would shred someones car if I tried to tirm to close...

Being the only soul out and about at 3 a.m. felt creepy to me at first, but it can grow on ya... peacefull in a way (as long as your equipment is reliable and you don't have to worry about being stranded).

It's not how I want to make a living....but if I ever have to do it again, I'll remember your advice.

Stay warm!

 

[GhostWolf]

GhostWolf..I can understand your reluctance to draw but if the man with the knives had decided to stab the neighbor you would not have been able to draw and shoot fast enough to prevent the neighbor from receiving a fatal wound. You should have drawn and challenged the knife guy first and then shoot if he made even the slightest move to stab the neighbor.

And also, keep an eye out for the police so they don't shoot you as well. Not easy but that's life. You and the neighbor got lucky.

JellyJar - No real argument here. I think the biggest factors controlling my decision were my perception that this was very likely escalation from something really stupid, unlikely to go critical, and knowledge that the cops had been called by a number of people. This particular neighbor is also of the type that when you hear of his involvement in something like this, you pretty much assume he started it, and most of the time you'd be right. That doesn't mean I would have stood by and watched him actually get carved up like a Christmas turkey, but it does mean that I was going to be extra-careful with my go - no-go decision.

Had it been my friend or me out there in the street confronted by Mr. Two-Knife, my pistol would have been out as soon as practical.

 

[Bufford t. Justice]

Has anyone else seen the pattern developing here? All the stories of thugs and gang bangers etc seem to happen in or around areas that won't allow it's citizens to carry arms to defend themselves. I was in Chicago once on a layover during a trip home on leave from Camp Pendleton. Walk outside for a little fresh air and the first thing I see is a bum in the middle of the street with his junk hanging out taking a leak. Lovely town that one. Haven't been back since.

 

[fedlaw]

So-I've been taking the bus to and from the train since Thanksgiving. It's a suburban bus, what could possibly happen? After all, the North Shore of Chicago isn't exactly Englewood.
The last bus at night from the train station to my neighborhood is the 6:11 p.m. Most nights, a very nice Hispanic woman also waits for the bus.
Last night was something special. As I walked to the bus shelter from the station, I saw her tucked into the corner while four young men, two white, one Hispanic and one Black were harassing her. (They were not dressed as if they had just come from a school dance or from a nice restaurant.) As I approached, they paid no attention to me. Instead they kept on menacing her and being very aggressive. I walked up to the shelter, unzipped my parka in case I needed to access my Springfield Loaded, went right up to the nearest POS, who seemed to be their leader, and gave him the, "I'm going to hurt you" look. (BTW, they were all at least 2-3 inches taller and 40 years younger than me.) It took him a second or two to notice my Navy SEAL hat, but when he did, he took off like a scalded bunny. His friends, who were inside of the shelter with the woman, got the hint quickly.
No muss and no fuss. No gun or knives, I didn't say anything to the idiots. Just a stare and an embroidered hat and we all got to go home safely.

 

[Bufford t. Justice]

So-I've been taking the bus to and from the train since Thanksgiving. It's a suburban bus, what could possibly happen? After all, the North Shore of Chicago isn't exactly Englewood.
The last bus at night from the train station to my neighborhood is the 6:11 p.m. Most nights, a very nice Hispanic woman also waits for the bus.
Last night was something special. As I walked to the bus shelter from the station, I saw her tucked into the corner while four young men, two white, one Hispanic and one Black were harassing her. (They were not dressed as if they had just come from a school dance or from a nice restaurant.) As I approached, they paid no attention to me. Instead they kept on menacing her and being very aggressive. I walked up to the shelter, unzipped my parka in case I needed to access my Springfield Loaded, went right up to the nearest POS, who seemed to be their leader, and gave him the, "I'm going to hurt you" look. (BTW, they were all at least 2-3 inches taller and 40 years younger than me.) It took him a second or two to notice my Navy SEAL hat, but when he did, he took off like a scalded bunny. His friends, who were inside of the shelter with the woman, got the hint quickly.
No muss and no fuss. No gun or knives, I didn't say anything to the idiots. Just a stare and an embroidered hat and we all got to go home safely.

How is it you can carry a gun in Chi town? LEO?

 

[fedlaw]

How is it you can carry a gun in Chi town? LEO?

Federal lawyer

 

[RoostRider]

They dont give me a truck, I get a shovel and am not allowed to carry a gun at work.

You know, I never bothered to ask if they allowed me to carry a gun.... funny how that is... I was in no hurry to brandish a weapon as MN at that time was a 'if the sheriff wants' state, and the sheriff around these parts wasn't so keen on the carry issue...

I had a permit to carry that was legal state wide (obtained from a more friendly sheriff in the state), but there were many restrictions written right on the back of the card... one of which was that I had to be in the act of trapping at the time... lol... can't do much trapping in Brooklyn Park in a snowstorm driving a plow truck.... but I figured it would at least perhaps buy me some leeway if I ever needed to produce it... but who knows, cause I never did have to....

Has anyone else seen the pattern developing here? All the stories of thugs and gang bangers etc seem to happen in or around areas that won't allow it's citizens to carry arms to defend themselves.

Quite frankly, no, I don't.... MN is a shall issue state and has been for some time. I lived in 'the hood' from well before it changed until, well, I still kinda do, and I work in some of the worst sometimes.... I haven't noticed any difference in the way gang bangers act as a result of concealed carry law changes here.... the only thing I have noticed is that I feel more confident being wherever I need/want to be with a gun on my side...

There are thugs and gangbangers in every major city, and in most minor cities too... It's a real problem, but I don't expect a law to change it... CCW can just change how we deal with it....

 

[Dan M.]

Just a stare and an embroidered hat and we all got to go home safely.

Doesn't Chicago have a law against brandishing hats?

 

[alienbogey]

.....but there were many restrictions written right on the back of the card... one of which was that I had to be in the act of trapping at the time... lol... can't do much trapping in Brooklyn Park in a snowstorm driving a plow truck.... ....

Well, you certainly trapped the car with the snow you piled up around it.....

 

[scoutsabout]

Shoot into the ground if you have to shoot to scare...

Contrary to popular belief, firing small arms into the air is not particularly dangerous.

Outside of the extremely remote possibility of taking down an airplane with your little .357, there is no danger whatsoever in firing rounds straight up. There have been studies on it. The worst a returning round can do, under its own weight alone, and in the unlikely event that it hits anyone, is cause a nasty bruise.

Now, if you're firing a really, really big bullet... like a .50 BMG... then maybe it would have enough inertia to be dangrous on its return trip... but not otherwise.

Conversely, you take a significant risk of ricochet or fragmentation splash if you fire into the ground. There is a huge difference between muzzle velocity and terminal velocity.

That being said, the scenarios wherein "bat fire" is just what the doctor ordered... like the wild bear... are pretty rare indeed. I would not fire warning shots at a human adversary. They ought to know a gun by the sight of it.

Unlike a wild animal, villains usually see a gun and go

 

[CrashInBlack]

If you fire *exactly* straight up the round will only have gravity-induced energy on the way down, but if you fire at even a slight angle the round will remain on it's ballistic trajectory and retain enough energy to hurt or kill someone.

 

[SalchaketJoe]

Why are we firing into the air again? Why are we firing warning shots?

 

[Sir Aardvark]

The worst a returning round can do, under its own weight alone, and in the unlikely event that it hits anyone, is cause a nasty bruise

On New Year's Day, my roommate found a .38 caliber-sized hole in the steel hood of his car - caused by some idiot shooting his gun in the air while celebrating New Year's Eve.

We retrieved the slug sitting atop the engine.

 

[scoutsabout]

Sir Aardvark,

... .38 caliber-sized hole in the steel hood of his car - caused by some idiot shooting his gun in the air...

Sorry about the hood of your buddie's car, but it doesn't sound like a scientific argument to me.
.
.
Crash,

...even a slight angle... retain enough energy to hurt or kill...

Even a slight angle? Really? I would love to see the scholarly research on that.

 

[Dr.Zubrato]

What exactly do you mean by scholarly research? The math is simple, and the concepts behind it are taught in high school physics classes as two dimensional projectile motion.
A projectile has only one force acting upon it once in flight, gravity which accelerates objects with mass downwards ~10 m/s, so the only way a projectile will fall at terminal velocity is if you oppose gravity exactly firing directly upward. Firing projectile at any angle other than 90 degrees WRT earth will cause the projectile to retain some velocity in the X direction.

However I think you mean what angle is required so that the projectile retains enough velocity in the X direction as to penetrate the human body, or the skull. This I don't know, as equations can only take us so far without factoring air resistance, wind, temperature, humidity and at that point math gets a little more complicated, not to mention I dont have data for skull penetration(everyone is different, location & angle of area hit matter)

I could post a bunch of equations and work through them, but I'm lazy
Here's an applet that separates X and Y velocities for your tinkering pleasure.
http://www.mhhe.com/physsci/physical/giambattista/proj/projectile.html
Not perfect, but works as a proof of concept.

 

[jeffmack]

Isn't one of the four rules about being sure of your target?

How is shooting randomly up in the air being sure of your target?

 

[ARS1911]

A few years ago in the small town in ky i grew up in i was taking my wife (then girlfriend) home after visiting with some friends. while we were sitting at the red light an old beater car with really dark tinted windows pulls up next to us in the left turning lane and stopped like they were checking us out. like i said it is a small town and we, the other car and I, were the only two cars in town so I knew he/she wasnt waiting for traffic. They turned left i turned right and I took my wife home. when i started back home myself I came around a sharp curve and on the side of the road was the same car.

He/she, couldnt tell the tint was too dark, pulled out behind me and stayed very close. I was driving a little fast for the two lane road i was driving on which seemed a little strange that they were that close. I made my turn on the one lane blacktop road that intersects with the gravel road i lived on and the other car followed still staying very close.

I was still driving a little fast because by this time my blood was pumpin (not one speck of cell service so couldn't call the sheriff). I followed the blactop to my turn off and slowed down to see what the other driver would do ( I know what your thinkin but my family are the only ones who live up that road and i know all the vehicles that come and go). they stopped and made the move like they wanted to follow so i reached into the back seat and grabbed my coach gun(trying to be real obvious about it) and put it in the passenger seat. needless to say the driver peeled rubber and took off.

I know it kinda sounds stupid of me but i sure didnt want them to follow me home. At the time i lived with my grandma (god rest her soul) and it was a one way gravel road that ended at my cousin's home. In hindsite I should have led them back to town and away from home but i was young and scared and didnt know what to do. At the time i was too young to own a hand gun ,about 19 or 20, so the coach gun was my defense weapon ( i got my ccw lic. and several carry guns since). Lessons learned= stay calm, and never go straight home to let someone know where you live.

 

[sheepdog]

...the "coach gun" reminds me of a "thing to do" when I was in high school...some of the big guys were making a habit of prowling the parking spots and grabbing kids parking...scaring them then letting them go...laughing all over school about it...I was a skinny guy...with a big mouth...I told around that I carried a .38 and a sawed-off 12 ga. on my dates and they'd better never try that with me....about a week later some kid I didn't know came up to me in the hall and asked me if I carried a sawed-off shotgun in the car on dates...the word had gotten around the school of about 1500 kids...the guys stopped the prank...never heard another word about it...

 

[scoutsabout]

Dr. Zubrato,

I'm no longer familiar with all of that high school physics stuff... as I'm now working on my engineering degree.

I don't recommend "bat fire" anyway... I was just pointing out that it's probably more dangerous to shoot into the ground than up in the air. There is no need to get into all the equations because it's been exhaustively studied with live rounds and published already. Your argument excludes drag coefficient and gravity vs. inertia... the second and third derivatives of a trajectory function might be helpful here... but who cares? It's still not a good idea to fire a weapon at anything other than a deadly threat or a controlled target.

If you're in wild, uninhabited areas, and you can shoot into a dirt backstop at least 25 yards away... fine, spook the bear or couger away. In any event, it's a calculated risk. You might be out of time... the shot might incite the bear to charge... your gun might explode... you could contribute to hearing damage... you could shoot a plane... you could get splashed by frag from a tree branch if you shoot up, or a rock if you shoot down...

Celebratory gunfire during holidays? I can't consider that as justifiable risk.

In any event, if it's cougers and bears we're worried about... I'd prefer to have a weapon capable of killing them if need be. I'm not likely to fire warning shots in any event, for any reason.

Anyway... back to the stories...

 

[Xyas]

I thought mythbusters did something on the firing the bullet in the sky thing. I'm pretty sure they came up with the answer that shooting it straight up won't hit anyone, but your chance of firing it perfectly straight into the air is very small and even the slightest tilt in angle would make it lethal.

 

[thirdeagle]

11 yrs ago I was driving down Smokey Park Hwy just outside of Asheville, NC. It was a little after 5pm on a Friday which means thick traffic and short tempers. I was the lead car in a pack of vehicles heading west. An east-bound car passed into my lane forcing an abrupt lane-change on my part and setting off a chain reaction of squalling tires, blaring horns, and colorful hand gestures. No contact was made - thankfully. Traffic came to a stop at the next light and I started to decompress a little. Next thing I know I see a fist the size of a large grapefruit bounce off the window of my driver side door. My first instinct was to lock my doors which worked out well because after a few more raps on my window the guy went to open the door. When the fella noticed he wasn't gaining entry to my vehicle without a little more work he shouted an expletive laden tirade, huffed backed to his truck, peeled out from behind me, and made a hard left. He was gone before I could get the vitals on his vehicle. I guess he was one of vehicles in the pack behind me and thought I was to blame for the incident. I was 20 at the time and the only thing I had in the car was a small length of chain under my seat and some jumper cables in the back seat floor board. Once I was "legal" I purchased my first firearm and over the years I took every NRA class I could including instructor training (Basic Pistol, PPITH, PPOTH, etc). Unfortunately, I don't feel any safer with the hardware and training. However, I am more confident in my ability to make good decisions in tough situations. Now, in that same situation, you get a series of verbal commands in my best "wrath of God" voice. Strike one. If I can't get away and you don't do what I ask, you get painted with the CT laser that just happens to be attached to my SW 340pd. Strike two. If I still haven't found a way out and you still pose a threat...no explanation necessary. Strike three - you're out.

 

[Fred Fuller]

One more time, folks- this is S&T, not Mythbusters Forum. Keep 'em on topic for S&T, or lose 'em.

And if someone really does want to tell "it happened to me" carry stories, or actually DISCUSS said stories, feel free to open a new thread.

Thanks to all who contributed to this one- and Happy New Year too, while we're at it

lpl