Drinking while Carrying?
- Thread starter Guntalk
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Low-Sci
Member
Funny you should ask, I went drinking with a bunch of friends last night. Course, I wasn't carrying.
As a general rule, I would say you can't enjoy all three subdepartments of the ATF at one time.
Don't drink while carrying.
As a general rule, I would say you can't enjoy all three subdepartments of the ATF at one time.
Don't drink while carrying.
deadin
Member
Simple answer. Same as drinking and driving. DON'T!!
Dean
Dean
XavierBreath
Member
Don't.
OpFlash
Member
It is illegal here so I don't do it. I do however think some people are responsible enough to do it safely, but not all, so I understand the law.
B.D. Turner
Member
Guns and alcohol do not mix. I would also advise not to hang out with others who are drinking and packing. Some peoples courage and stupidity comes in a bottle.
When I rode with my old motorcycle club I got to the party late and everyone else was already way drunk. Someone set up a couple of beer bottles about 25 yards out. Everyone carried pistols so out came the pistols blasting away at the bottles. They were so drunk they missed all of the bottles. I picked up a few rocks and threw them at the bottles. I broke all three bottles with three rocks. I told them to put the guns away and get a handful of rocks LOL
When I rode with my old motorcycle club I got to the party late and everyone else was already way drunk. Someone set up a couple of beer bottles about 25 yards out. Everyone carried pistols so out came the pistols blasting away at the bottles. They were so drunk they missed all of the bottles. I picked up a few rocks and threw them at the bottles. I broke all three bottles with three rocks. I told them to put the guns away and get a handful of rocks LOL
Zundfolge
Member
This is one of those well beat topics 
First consideration you have is the law. Some states have a zero tolerance policy when it comes to drinking while carrying. Some have specific limits (usually the same as driving) and some (like where I live) say only that it is illegal to carry while "under the influence".
Second consideration is one's own ability to regulate their own drinking ... if you're one of those who can't stop once you start you probably shouldn't be packing (or for that matter you shouldn't be drinking).
For myself, I see nothing wrong with having a drink or two (especially with a meal) but I'm not going to get drunk with a gun on my hip.
Now I'll sit here and wait for the tee-totalers to tell me I'm jeperdizing everyone's RKBA by having a Guinness with dinner
First consideration you have is the law. Some states have a zero tolerance policy when it comes to drinking while carrying. Some have specific limits (usually the same as driving) and some (like where I live) say only that it is illegal to carry while "under the influence".
Second consideration is one's own ability to regulate their own drinking ... if you're one of those who can't stop once you start you probably shouldn't be packing (or for that matter you shouldn't be drinking).
For myself, I see nothing wrong with having a drink or two (especially with a meal) but I'm not going to get drunk with a gun on my hip.
Now I'll sit here and wait for the tee-totalers to tell me I'm jeperdizing everyone's RKBA by having a Guinness with dinner
I don't carry so maybe I shouldn't butt in. However, as an ex-problem drinker(I am an ex-problem drinker and an ex-drinker.) I educated myself a great deal on the physiological effects of drinking. One of the big, big things about alcohol is that it IMPAIRS JUDGMENT. That is why there are all kinds of incidents of people doing uninhibited sorts of things while under the influence of alcohol. Alcohol also interferes with motor skills. So, in my opinion, not only should people not drive and drink...they should NOT, emphasis emphasized, shoot or carry when drinking.
johnmcl
Member
Never
Hi Tom,
I consider myself as having a higher level of social responsbility as a member of the shooting community. That rule is in general and especially applies to when carrying a concealed weapon.
The potential political damage of drinking while carrying a weapon far outweighs those God-given pleasures of moderation. The Washington Post (Vashington Pravda...) would not hesitate to run a headline in their Metro section of the form, "Virginia Citizen JohnMcL Drunk While Armed", even though somewhat independent of the facts.
Given those risks versus benefits, I choose to err on the side of caution. No alcohol at all for me while armed.
Hi Tom,
I consider myself as having a higher level of social responsbility as a member of the shooting community. That rule is in general and especially applies to when carrying a concealed weapon.
The potential political damage of drinking while carrying a weapon far outweighs those God-given pleasures of moderation. The Washington Post (Vashington Pravda...) would not hesitate to run a headline in their Metro section of the form, "Virginia Citizen JohnMcL Drunk While Armed", even though somewhat independent of the facts.
Given those risks versus benefits, I choose to err on the side of caution. No alcohol at all for me while armed.
To some people, "drinking" means having a few sips of beer. To others, the only "drinking" they're familiar with is going on a 3-day bender. There is a big difference between enjoying a relaxing beverage, and going to lampshade-party land. Plus different people metabolize alcohol differently, show different levels of restraint and responsibility while enjoying their beer, wine or other drink of choice. There's alcohol in your morning mouthwash, and some of that gets into your system. So most everybody who carries every day, carries with some alcohol in their system, it's simply a question of how much and does it affect your judgement.
Now, having said that, any time you drink alcohol, you are affecting your reaction time somewhat. There are lots of other things we do every day that also affect our reaction time in a negative way. Distracting activities like eating, talking on a cell phone etc. will make you a little slower on the draw. I think the real question is how much alcohol do you feel it takes to affect your judgement? For people who don't know when to say "when" or when enough is "enough" they might decide that a zero tolerance policy, for them, is best. For someone who can enjoy one beer and say goodnight and go home, he might feel that is perfectly ok. Personally, I think I'm fine driving home after one or two beers, and KNOW that I'm completely legal in doing so. But would I carry under the same circumstances? Since I do not yet have a CCW I can't really answer that, but at first I think I would refrain from doing so. Perhaps after having carried daily for a couple of years with a perfect safety record, I would feel ok in doing so on occasion. Since I don't frequent high risk venues, my chances of needing my CCW piece would be about on par with being struck by lightning. But, people do get struck by lightning every year. It's a question of weighing risks against benefits, and everyone has a different level of balance that they're comfortable with. Local laws apply, natch.
Now, having said that, any time you drink alcohol, you are affecting your reaction time somewhat. There are lots of other things we do every day that also affect our reaction time in a negative way. Distracting activities like eating, talking on a cell phone etc. will make you a little slower on the draw. I think the real question is how much alcohol do you feel it takes to affect your judgement? For people who don't know when to say "when" or when enough is "enough" they might decide that a zero tolerance policy, for them, is best. For someone who can enjoy one beer and say goodnight and go home, he might feel that is perfectly ok. Personally, I think I'm fine driving home after one or two beers, and KNOW that I'm completely legal in doing so. But would I carry under the same circumstances? Since I do not yet have a CCW I can't really answer that, but at first I think I would refrain from doing so. Perhaps after having carried daily for a couple of years with a perfect safety record, I would feel ok in doing so on occasion. Since I don't frequent high risk venues, my chances of needing my CCW piece would be about on par with being struck by lightning. But, people do get struck by lightning every year. It's a question of weighing risks against benefits, and everyone has a different level of balance that they're comfortable with. Local laws apply, natch.
robert garner
Member
I am
"designated Shooter"
What part of "Impaired" is not understood?
robert
"designated Shooter"
What part of "Impaired" is not understood?
robert
Unisaw
Member
Don't.
ORAG
Member
Once Upon a Time I
Once I attended a course in CA in San Louis Obispo. Cal Specialized training Institute (Name Then). I was put up in a local hotel and upon arrival went to the bar for a drink. I shortly noticed that the entire place was full of people with weapons concealed (Poorly in a lot of cases) I felt really in danger and left after a short stay. The next day I found out that most of the people in the bar were LEOs and were required to carry off duty. We had a good laugh at that one when I told them of my concerns. I still don't think it is a good idea but understand that in some cases there is no good choice unless they want to stay home and drink.
Once I attended a course in CA in San Louis Obispo. Cal Specialized training Institute (Name Then). I was put up in a local hotel and upon arrival went to the bar for a drink. I shortly noticed that the entire place was full of people with weapons concealed (Poorly in a lot of cases) I felt really in danger and left after a short stay. The next day I found out that most of the people in the bar were LEOs and were required to carry off duty. We had a good laugh at that one when I told them of my concerns. I still don't think it is a good idea but understand that in some cases there is no good choice unless they want to stay home and drink.
RioShooter
Member
Man Involved in Shooting After Leaving Bar
Even if you only have one drink, that's the headline you'll see the next morning. For a DA, perception is more important than facts. The media will portray you as a drunk carrying a gun; not a responsible CCW who stopped after one drink.
Even if you only have one drink, that's the headline you'll see the next morning. For a DA, perception is more important than facts. The media will portray you as a drunk carrying a gun; not a responsible CCW who stopped after one drink.
Consuming alcoholic beverages WILL impair your senses, even when done in "moderation". Consider the FACT that many "moderate" drinkers, while not technically "under-the-influence" by legal standards, become involved in motor vehicle collisions. Why? Well, the "moderate" amount of alcohol in their blood system tends to cause them to be less "inhibited". In other words, after tipping just a couple of beers, then getting behind the wheel of a car, they think that they're a "race car driver". No, they're not "drunk", just slightly "impaired"!
Having said that, here's a TRUE story: Back in the early 1980's, several LEO's held a "going away party" for an officer that was transferring to another station. The party was held at a local bar that was in a "safe" neighborhood, but CLOSE to a rotten one. The LEO's had been using that bar as their "watering hole" for many years, and had never had any problems.
The party was held after a work shift, and one particular officer pointed out that the lack of sleep WOULD be a problem for the officers who would be consuming alcoholic beverages. It was agreed upon by the officers attending the party that they would NOT carry their off-duty firearms into the bar, and if anyone got "blitzed", someone else would drive them home.
After about an hour of partying, no one was "blitzed", but...."Murphy's Law" entered the picture! The "safe" bar was suddenly the focus of attention of two armed bad guys, who didn't have a clue as to what they had walked into! All of the patrons were LEO's, but since none of them were armed when one of the bad guys fired off some rounds in the ceiling, then announced that it was a "stick-up", those LEO's were compromised!
....All but ONE particular LEO! He had to work some over-time, so he got to the party late, and was still (thankfully) armed!
I won't go into detail, other than to explain that the ONLY officer that was armed was quite a shot!
Everyone hit the deck when the suspects entered the bar, including the armed LEO. When none of the other (unarmed) LEO's took action, the armed one decided that it was "time". He fired from a good position, dropping the first suspect immediately, then turned to the second suspect and fired. The second suspect also went down, and the unarmed LEO's "swarmed" the suspects, disarming them and taking control. The police were called, and on-duty officers arrived. Both suspects met their demise! All of the party-goers were interviewed, and a lengthy investigation ensued. The armed officer was "praised" for his actions, but was also "chastised" to a certain extent, for having been armed in the bar! Had it been under different circumstances, that armed officer might have received the "Medal of Valor" for what he did, but all he received was the respect of his fellow officers. Later on, he said that he would have ALSO been unarmed, if he had known what had been agreed upon!
Want one more? This has nothing to do with drinking, however. It was a "touchy-feely" training session for police supervisors, held in a posh hotel. The hotel policy was "No guns allowed", so the police agency had all of the supervisors stash their weapons before going into the conference room of the hotel. During the training session, a "Ninja" jumped through a window into the conference room. At first, the police supervisors all thought that the "Ninja" (dressed in all black) was part of the training! It didn't take long, however, before the "Ninja" announced "This is a robbery!", and fired a round into the ceiling. Several police supervisors hustled toward the "Ninja", who fired some more rounds, killing the Chief of police and a Sergeant! During the mass confusion, other police supervisors were able to "swarm" the "Ninja", taking him to the ground and disarming him. During the altercation, the "Ninja" suffocated and died.
Well, first of all, the "Ninja" turned out to the the drug-addicted son of a Superior Court Judge (and, yes, the suspect was of Japanese-American heritage, believe it or not!). Secondly, the armed robbery in that particular conference room had been by mistake! That conference room had originally been scheduled to hold a jewelry and diamond wholesalers convention, but a last-minute switch had been made! Alas, that conference room was filled with LEO's, but none of them were ARMED!
Bottom line: Just exactly WHEN do YOU think that you might NEED to be armed? The officers in the bar used "sound judgement" by choosing to go unarmed while consuming alcoholic beverages, but due to "exigent circumstances", along with that officer not knowing about the unarmed "agreement", a dangerous situation turned out okay.
On the "touchy-feely" training session, due to "exigent circumstances", those LEO supervisors, who were unarmed for "policy" reasons, were suddenly confronted with a deadly situation...and WITHOUT any drinking involved!
Sorry for the "rant"-like response, but I WOULD have been in that bar with the other unarmed LEO's for that "going away party", had it not been for me being sick! The "touchy-feely" training session in the hotel didn't effect me, for I wasn't a member of that police agency, but the hotel was only about one mile from my residence....and I heard all of the police and ambulance sirens! (By the way, the police agency that held that training session was a neighboring agency, not my local police agency. Why they didn't use one of their own facilities for their training session has always been a question in my mind!)
Last, but not least! I have CCW'ed legally for 35+ years. I have done so on a continuous basis, without regard to what might be looked upon as a "rule". I also disregard posted signs of "No guns allowed" in the windows of businessess, for in my way of thinking, that "policy" is "non-applicable" to me....but only from the stance of being a LEO, and now a retired LEO. Hopefully, you "citizens" who have CCW permits will, in the future, become recognized for your "enhancement" of safety within the public! As a long-time LEO, I would much rather have honest, law-abiding and responsible citizens having CCW priveleges/rights, than to worry about "bad guys" that carry WITHOUT permits, and only carry for their criminal acts!
Wordy enough for you? I hope that no one "bashes" me, merely for being a LEO! For my "part", I have done as much as I could for YOUR "priveleges/rights" to carry, and I'm not the ONLY LEO who is pro-gun and pro-citizen! I often recall the incident that took place in Austin, Texas, where an ARMED citizen assisted a LEO in taking out a crazed sniper in a college campus tower. Yes, the LEO was a "hero", but so was the armed citizen! That Austin, Texas incident was a very pure form of "exigent circumstances"!
Having said that, here's a TRUE story: Back in the early 1980's, several LEO's held a "going away party" for an officer that was transferring to another station. The party was held at a local bar that was in a "safe" neighborhood, but CLOSE to a rotten one. The LEO's had been using that bar as their "watering hole" for many years, and had never had any problems.
The party was held after a work shift, and one particular officer pointed out that the lack of sleep WOULD be a problem for the officers who would be consuming alcoholic beverages. It was agreed upon by the officers attending the party that they would NOT carry their off-duty firearms into the bar, and if anyone got "blitzed", someone else would drive them home.
After about an hour of partying, no one was "blitzed", but...."Murphy's Law" entered the picture! The "safe" bar was suddenly the focus of attention of two armed bad guys, who didn't have a clue as to what they had walked into! All of the patrons were LEO's, but since none of them were armed when one of the bad guys fired off some rounds in the ceiling, then announced that it was a "stick-up", those LEO's were compromised!
....All but ONE particular LEO! He had to work some over-time, so he got to the party late, and was still (thankfully) armed!
I won't go into detail, other than to explain that the ONLY officer that was armed was quite a shot!
Everyone hit the deck when the suspects entered the bar, including the armed LEO. When none of the other (unarmed) LEO's took action, the armed one decided that it was "time". He fired from a good position, dropping the first suspect immediately, then turned to the second suspect and fired. The second suspect also went down, and the unarmed LEO's "swarmed" the suspects, disarming them and taking control. The police were called, and on-duty officers arrived. Both suspects met their demise! All of the party-goers were interviewed, and a lengthy investigation ensued. The armed officer was "praised" for his actions, but was also "chastised" to a certain extent, for having been armed in the bar! Had it been under different circumstances, that armed officer might have received the "Medal of Valor" for what he did, but all he received was the respect of his fellow officers. Later on, he said that he would have ALSO been unarmed, if he had known what had been agreed upon!
Want one more? This has nothing to do with drinking, however. It was a "touchy-feely" training session for police supervisors, held in a posh hotel. The hotel policy was "No guns allowed", so the police agency had all of the supervisors stash their weapons before going into the conference room of the hotel. During the training session, a "Ninja" jumped through a window into the conference room. At first, the police supervisors all thought that the "Ninja" (dressed in all black) was part of the training! It didn't take long, however, before the "Ninja" announced "This is a robbery!", and fired a round into the ceiling. Several police supervisors hustled toward the "Ninja", who fired some more rounds, killing the Chief of police and a Sergeant! During the mass confusion, other police supervisors were able to "swarm" the "Ninja", taking him to the ground and disarming him. During the altercation, the "Ninja" suffocated and died.
Well, first of all, the "Ninja" turned out to the the drug-addicted son of a Superior Court Judge (and, yes, the suspect was of Japanese-American heritage, believe it or not!). Secondly, the armed robbery in that particular conference room had been by mistake! That conference room had originally been scheduled to hold a jewelry and diamond wholesalers convention, but a last-minute switch had been made! Alas, that conference room was filled with LEO's, but none of them were ARMED!
Bottom line: Just exactly WHEN do YOU think that you might NEED to be armed? The officers in the bar used "sound judgement" by choosing to go unarmed while consuming alcoholic beverages, but due to "exigent circumstances", along with that officer not knowing about the unarmed "agreement", a dangerous situation turned out okay.
On the "touchy-feely" training session, due to "exigent circumstances", those LEO supervisors, who were unarmed for "policy" reasons, were suddenly confronted with a deadly situation...and WITHOUT any drinking involved!
Sorry for the "rant"-like response, but I WOULD have been in that bar with the other unarmed LEO's for that "going away party", had it not been for me being sick! The "touchy-feely" training session in the hotel didn't effect me, for I wasn't a member of that police agency, but the hotel was only about one mile from my residence....and I heard all of the police and ambulance sirens! (By the way, the police agency that held that training session was a neighboring agency, not my local police agency. Why they didn't use one of their own facilities for their training session has always been a question in my mind!)
Last, but not least! I have CCW'ed legally for 35+ years. I have done so on a continuous basis, without regard to what might be looked upon as a "rule". I also disregard posted signs of "No guns allowed" in the windows of businessess, for in my way of thinking, that "policy" is "non-applicable" to me....but only from the stance of being a LEO, and now a retired LEO. Hopefully, you "citizens" who have CCW permits will, in the future, become recognized for your "enhancement" of safety within the public! As a long-time LEO, I would much rather have honest, law-abiding and responsible citizens having CCW priveleges/rights, than to worry about "bad guys" that carry WITHOUT permits, and only carry for their criminal acts!
Wordy enough for you? I hope that no one "bashes" me, merely for being a LEO! For my "part", I have done as much as I could for YOUR "priveleges/rights" to carry, and I'm not the ONLY LEO who is pro-gun and pro-citizen! I often recall the incident that took place in Austin, Texas, where an ARMED citizen assisted a LEO in taking out a crazed sniper in a college campus tower. Yes, the LEO was a "hero", but so was the armed citizen! That Austin, Texas incident was a very pure form of "exigent circumstances"!
cassandrasdaddy
Member
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2006
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- 4,206
how
many times has an officer caught doing "stupid cop tricks" been found to have been drinking? I never did a stats check but i'll hazard a guess more often than not.
and as a joking aside doesn't it need to be taken into consideration what kinda bar you drink in?
many times has an officer caught doing "stupid cop tricks" been found to have been drinking? I never did a stats check but i'll hazard a guess more often than not.
and as a joking aside doesn't it need to be taken into consideration what kinda bar you drink in?
Big Mike
Member
I don't drink much so it's not really an issue, but to answer your question, NEVER.
Car Knocker
Member
My personal policy?
I'm diabetic so alcohol is high on the list of things to avoid. That said, once or twice a year we go out and have dinner with out of state friends. The man will have wine with dinner and I'll have part of a glass to keep him company. I have no problem with drinking and carrying then.
I'm diabetic so alcohol is high on the list of things to avoid. That said, once or twice a year we go out and have dinner with out of state friends. The man will have wine with dinner and I'll have part of a glass to keep him company. I have no problem with drinking and carrying then.
One (with dinner) is my personal limit while carrying. I don't "drink" by most definitions of the term at any time. I might have 3 at home on rare occassions. I'm not gonna refuse to have one beer with a nice dinner out and will accept the added risk which will be very minimal. I don't go to bars, so if I get in a shootout after having my one drink it will be at an Applebees.
By the time I get home my BAC is about zero again and if I need it before then, one drink won't be much of an influence. Since the overwhelming odds are I won't need it, I enjoy living a responsible life. If there is no law it is a personal choice, just think it through, understand the potential consequences and stick to what you decide.
By the time I get home my BAC is about zero again and if I need it before then, one drink won't be much of an influence. Since the overwhelming odds are I won't need it, I enjoy living a responsible life. If there is no law it is a personal choice, just think it through, understand the potential consequences and stick to what you decide.
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