Emergency Declared After Anti-Nazi Riots

[DanS]

Another what if

I'm curious what would happen if someone sat on there front porch with a shotgun or whatever firearm.

One senario,

Someone enters the yard threatening you, and you discharged that firearm, even a warning shot. You know they (the bad guys) or someone else would call the police and then you would be the new priority maybe having a SWAT team show up in your front yard. After you are disarmed or killed by the police, then the rioters would loot and burn down your home.

I'm not the above would be right or just, but I could see it happening. It might be better to stay inside the house and do your shooting indoors.

 

[Sistema1927]

The only reason the nazis are seen as evil is because of the Holocaust.

Did I really read that?

 

[bg]

Follow up article >
http://www.yahoo.com/_ylh=X3oDMTEyb...ahoo.com/s/ap/20051016/ap_on_re_us/nazi_march

"They do have a right to walk on the Toledo sidewalks," said Mayor Jack Ford, who at one point confronted leaders of the mob and tried to settle them down.

A gang member in a mask threatened to shoot him, and others cursed him for allowing the march, the mayor said. He said he didn't know if the man who threatened him was actually armed, but he blamed gangs for much of the violence. The march had been called off because of the crowds, and the white supremacists had left

Hmm. The "Nazis" attempt to state their opinion. The gangs threaten the
Mayor. Who's really causing the trouble..

the Nazi group tries to come back, Ford said he would seek a court order to stop them

What about a court order against the gangs ?

"They don't have the right to bring hate to my front yard," said Terrance Anderson, who lives near a bar that was destroyed

Let's see. The "Nazis" wanted to state their opinion, left the area, the
gangs and others go on the warpath injuring Police,Firefighters,
citizens, resulting in costly damages to property, and this guy
blames it on the "Nazis".

What about putting the blame on the knuckleheads who actually DID
the rioting ?

I realize there are two sides to every story, and I didn't post the
opinions of other residents there. It just troubles me to think
that one group is to blame, and maybe so as to the grounds
of the mess, but the only one who says the gangs and others
who started and turned this situation into a dangerous one,
is the Mayor ? How bout the citizens who live in the area ?
Are they so intimidated by these gang scumbags, they won't
also lay blame upon them ?

I suppose it's easy for me to point at the residents living there to
be afraid for their lives and property and blame them for what appears
to me as a one sided recount. But when does one go from living
to surviving in one's own area and what kind of life is that ?

 

[Cosmoline]

And does anyone wonder why some people are so afraid of gun owners? Cosmoline, how are you any different than a Nazi? I like to voice my opinions and vote for change, not murder my opponents. I guess that is just me.

I draw the lines at marching parades of nazis. If I saw such a thing, I would be very hard pressed to avoid exercising my considerable marksmanship skills on their heads. That makes me different from a nazi because I would be KILLING nazis. Not joining them. Of course mass parades of neo nazis down the street are exceedingly rare things. If they ever start taking place up here, it's very likely that the time will have come to take up arms and start making cocktails to greet them. Even if the majority of the people supported the white pride yinyangs, I would still oppose them with every lethal tool and device I could create, killing as many of them as possible. Hitler, after all, was duly elected.

That said, I do not support STATE efforts to impinge on free expression. I am not the state.

 

[dracphelan]

You have your dates wrong. From the late 1800s to the 1960s, there were none of these programs and there were no problems with black families missing fathers or having more children then they could support.

The programs and the troubles they cause started in the 1960s with LBJ. Women were given more money the more children they had and if a man stayed in the home to support them, they lost their support.

Actually, many welfare programs were started (in mainly northeastern states) in the late 1800s. They usually started out as private programs and were then picked up by the states. Federal welfare programs didn't start until the New Deal with FDR in the 1930s. However, you are correct in that the 1960s and Johnson's "War on Poverty" really accelerated the process.

 

[Phyphor]

Cosmoline said:

I draw the lines at marching parades of nazis.

One could replace the Nazis with just about any word, like, say...jews, blacks, whites, mexicans, gays, etc. Now, if they're armed and obviously going to cause trouble, I'd draw the line too. But just being asshats is enough reason to be shot?

If I saw such a thing, I would be very hard pressed to avoid exercising my considerable marksmanship skills on their heads. That makes me different from a nazi because I would be KILLING nazis.

Ok, so you're different from a Nazi because you're killing Nazis. That makes sense. I mean, you're just killing someone for gathering in public and expressing an opinion different from yours. While I tend to revile Nazis, I don't see as to how I'd have a right opening fire on people who aren't actually a physical threat to me. If they were being too disruptive, it'd be a matter for law enforcement. Now, if they were actually presenting a danger to me and mine, then they'd be eating lead. But walking down the street shouting hate propaganda really isn't death-penalty material.

Not joining them. Of course mass parades of neo nazis down the street are exceedingly rare things. If they ever started taking place up here, it's very likely that the time will have come to take up arms and start making cocktails to greet them.

No, it's more likely the time will have come for another Waco type incident, complete with "good" press for the Neo Nazis. (I.E. the media would probably show that they were unarmed, and all of a sudden, a gun-nut opened fire on an unarmed crowd, which would then cause law-enforcement to have to 'deal' with you and any with you. )

Even if the majority of the people supported the white pride yinyangs, I would still oppose them with every lethal tool and device I could create, killing as many of them as possible.

While their words ARE hateful, that's all they are, for now. WORDS. If you'd shoot a man down, no matter how stupid and deserving, merely for words, then I think you need to rethink just what firearms are for.

That said, I do not support STATE efforts to impinge on free expression. I am not the state.

No, you just act much like them, except you didn't have anyone vote you into the position of decency enforcement (for lack of a better term.

 

[rudolf]

The only reason the nazis are seen as evil is because of the Holocaust. Everything else has been deemed worthy of imitation.

They killed the disabled folks of their own race.
The burned down parts of russia, raped and killed millions of civilians.
The had a secret police that collected political foes to kill them.
They sank ships with civilians (USA included).

Just to name a few.

I'm German. I'm so glad the US and the others let me live a life without the Nazis. Believe me.

 

[Cosmoline]

One could replace the Nazis with just about any word, like, say...jews, blacks, whites, mexicans, gays, etc. Now, if they're armed and obviously going to cause trouble, I'd draw the line too. But just being asshats is enough reason to be shot?

No, one could not. Because only nazis are nazis. Nazis are the incarnation of absolute evil, and must die.

That makes sense. I mean, you're just killing someone for gathering in public and expressing an opinion different from yours. While I tend to revile Nazis, I don't see as to how I'd have a right opening fire on people who aren't actually a physical threat to me.

No, I would be killing them for being nazis marching in my neighborhood. In my world, that carries the death sentence. Nazis by their nature are a threat to me personally. In a large marching group they are a threat to everything I hold dear. It would be my responsibility not merely to stop them but to slaughter them. And it would be the best day's work I'd ever done.

, it's more likely the time will have come for another Waco type incident

I AM NOT THE STATE. What part of that are you missing?

Am I dangerous? To nazis, yes. If I had warning of a march I would probably make a point of leaving town to avoid a long prison term. I hate them worse than antis, worse than Californians, worse than poison. THEY MUST DIE.

 

[El Rojo]

Ok Cosmoline, here is my last effort to turn you away from being a raving, psychotic, lunatic. Take everything you said above and replace the "Nazis" with "Jews". How would you sound any different than a Nazi? I mean if you think about it, those Jews killed Jesus and wanted the Christians dead for trying to spread something counter to what they believed. How would it possibly be any different for a Nazi to not have the same moral justification to kill you? How would it be any different from a Palastinian or any other Muslim from justifying taking out Jews?

The war is over Cosmoline. Relax. You are not Rambo. You don't have to go on your own little Nazi rampage. Better yet, talk is pretty cheap. You talk a mean game, but can you walk the walk? Prove to us how bad you are. There are obviously Nazis out there in the world, why are you allowing them to live? Go down to Virginia and take them out. If I don't see you in the news in the next two weeks, we will know where you really stand.

It is time to put up or shut up Cosmoline. You talk a mean Internet game, but do you really have the stones to shoot unarmed Nazis in the streets? I will be watching the news and waiting. Until then, you are nothing more than talk, and not very High Road at that.

 

[Jackthelad]

Cosmoline, you wrote-

"If I ever see a neo nazi parade, I'll be hard pressed to avoid getting out my best Mosin, securing a rooftop and blowing their faces through the backs of their heads. Laws aside, nazis have no right to breath air and should be killed on sight. Just because the government can't do it doesn't mean it's not the citizen's obligation. "

- Hardly The High Road. I may not agree with someone's opinion, ideology, or perspective, but that way of handling things will do wonders for the
Anti gun folks. What else about other people brings out those feelings in you? Their accents? Clothes? Political affiliation? Unfortunately, statements like yours are fodder for the DU folks and will be sure to show up on a thread over there, to justify their anti gun feelings.

 

[junyo]

I'm gratified that the members are able to analyze, diagnose, and pronounce judgment on an entire community on the basis on the actions of relatively small group of people. And not only has the problem been solved, it's been declared a rational basis for racism:

If anything images liek that make more peopel go to the side of racisim. Not agianst it.
---
Now I don't have any more time for Neo Nazis than I have for gangsters of any color but, apparently from what we see today, they have a valid point.
---
I am sorry, but black America needs to pull their heads out of their butts and stop giving everyone fuel for the fire.

What black America needs, if I may, is for the vast majority of law abidding, hard working members of that community to stop being held responsible for every action of a criminal minority, and prejudged for their actions. White folks get their panties in a twist when people bring up bad actions prepetrated by their ancestors or their contemporaries with an almost universal refrain of "But I didn't do it/own it/say it!" Yet some fools riot, and "black America" needs to respond? This part of black America was 500 miles away, shot a round of clays that morning and then watched "Jeeves and Wooster" videos with his girlfriend - how is this vaguely my problem? Why do black leaders need to do something about it? "Black leaders" are mostly people that white America appoints as spokemen so that they can deal with black America as a political abstraction rather than facing the reality that there is no "black America"- there are Americans who happen to be black, with just as many different upbringings, opinions ,and motivations as the rest of society.

But because despite not having anything to do with it, some Americans will still use this (and many other incidents to come) as an excuse to treat millions of innocents differently than they treat their own. To lump ordinary and exemplary citizens in with thugs because of the simple commonality of skin color. And then wonder where the anger comes from...

 

[Kjervin]

I bet if Neo-nazis started gettting shot up everytime they had a rally, they would change their PR focus. I thik many people see them as an exception because they are a party which historically had genocide as an agenda item. I think if I were ever to have a ND, a Nazi (or Klan for that matter) rally might be a good place to have a couple of dozen. At least you wouldn't have to worry about any Human Beings being injured. Oops.

Kj

 

[Phyphor]

No, one could not. Because only nazis are nazis. Nazis are the incarnation of absolute evil, and must die.

I tend to agree, HOWEVER, there's a time and a place for croaking them. Shooting them down on your street while they're peacibly assembling isn't it.

No, I would be killing them for being nazis marching in my neighborhood. In my world, that carries the death sentence.

The problem is, while many agree with that, to the law, shooting an unarmed man in cold blood is considered murder, no matter what his politics or beliefs are.

Nazis by their nature are a threat to me personally. In a large marching group they are a threat to everything I hold dear. It would be my responsibility not merely to stop them but to slaughter them. And it would be the best day's work I'd ever done.

And likely the last. You do realize that if you did start popping Nazis that were just parading and shouting their crap, you'd be painted as the bad guy. That is, after the cops rolled your place, and either arrested or killed you. Or did you imagine that they'd pin a medal on you?

I AM NOT THE STATE. What part of that are you missing?

Not one bit.

Am I dangerous? To nazis, yes. If I had warning of a march I would probably make a point of leaving town to avoid a long prison term.

There's where we really disagree... I'd stay home, locked and loaded, in case of trouble. But as long as they didn't start raping and pillaging, I'd let them pass. I don't like their way of thinking, but I'm not going to indulge in anything that even seems akin to it.

I hate them worse than antis, worse than Californians, worse than poison. THEY MUST DIE.

If they don't change their ways, odds are, they will. Being an organization like that isn't conducive to long life.

 

[Cosmoline]

The problem is, while many agree with that, to the law, shooting an unarmed man in cold blood is considered murder, no matter what his politics or beliefs are.

Obviously that's what the law says. I'm not arguing that point. I would not be interested in a medal, I'd be interesting in killing nazi pigs. There comes a time when you must set aside the law and societal norms and just kill nazis.

Hardly The High Road. I may not agree with someone's opinion, ideology, or perspective, but that way of handling things will do wonders for the Anti gun folks.

Antis, and even Californians get the high road from me. Nazis do not.

What else about other people brings out those feelings in you? Their accents? Clothes? Political affiliation? Unfortunately, statements like yours are fodder for the DU folks and will be sure to show up on a thread over there, to justify their anti gun feelings.

The idiots on the DU have no reason to fear my firearms unless they are nazis parading on my streets. Then I reserve the right to kill them. Nazis do not deserve my consideration or tolerance. They must die. Nazis should fear me, because I want to kill them and have the power to do so. To alleviate the situation they need to stop being nazis. If they refuse to do that they need to stay away from me if they want to live. One of the basic reasons I keep firearms is to ensure that nazis will never come to power here. I think that's a perfectly acceptable reason for keeping them.

 

[Kurush]

The only reason the nazis are seen as evil is because of the Holocaust. Everything else has been deemed worthy of imitation.

The only reason Jeffery Dahmer is seen as evil is because he killed people and ate them. Other than that he was a pretty nice guy.

 

[atek3]

The idiots on the DU have no reason to fear my firearms unless they are Atheists parading on my streets. Then I reserve the right to kill them. Atheists do not deserve my consideration or tolerance. They must die. Atheists should fear me, because I want to kill them and have the power to do so. To alleviate the situation they need to stop being Atheists. If they refuse to do that they need to stay away from me if they want to live. One of the basic reasons I keep firearms is to ensure that Atheists will never come to power here. I think that's a perfectly acceptable reason for keeping them.

does peoples' shock at your post seem any clearer now?

atek3

 

[Cosmoline]

No. I was talking about NAZIS not atheists. If you don't know the difference, you need to review your 20th century history.

And please stop screwing with my quotes. It's very very bad form.

 

[captain obvious]

The idiots on the DU have no reason to fear my firearms unless they are nazis parading on my streets. Then I reserve the right to kill them. Nazis do not deserve my consideration or tolerance. They must die. Nazis should fear me, because I want to kill them and have the power to do so. To alleviate the situation they need to stop being nazis. If they refuse to do that they need to stay away from me if they want to live. One of the basic reasons I keep firearms is to ensure that nazis will never come to power here. I think that's a perfectly acceptable reason for keeping them.

Wow.


Cosmoline - I never thought that THR senior member would scare me enough to spend more on self defense, but I think you just did it.

What people think and how people act are two different things. If someone wants to be a nazi, I don't care, so long as they do not harm anyone else.

If they do though, there's more than one reason why I have an Garand.

 

[Cosmoline]

Let me be clear, I am not saying I'd go out and kill nazis as they stand now. They're around here, and I keep tabs on them. But they're harmless fools. If, however, they managed to start staging mass marches in an effort to take over local government then yes, I would consider it my duty to raise the black flag. I guess that's the difference between those who sat by in the 1930's and watched it happen and the few who tried to do something about it. I know which side I'll be on. True nazi ideology is anathema to the United States, and by definition their ascent to power would be contrary to everything the nation stands for. Would you sit by and watch the jackboots march?

What people think and how people act are two different things. If someone wants to be a nazi, I don't care, so long as they do not harm anyone else.

I agree. But a large body of nazis marching in my neighborhood is an ACTION, not a THOUGHT. For nazis such an action means only one thing--WE ARE TAKING OVER.

 

[Phyphor]

hopefully,

nobody tries to do WW2 reenactments near Cosmoline's place

 

[atek3]

And please stop screwing with my quotes. It's very very bad form.

Better?

Nazis are the incarnation of absolute evil, and must die.

It would be my responsibility not merely to stop them but to slaughter them. And it would be the best day's work I'd ever done.

THEY MUST DIE.

Wow, would you like a clean rag, I think you've got a little bit of foam showing at the corner of the mouth.

atek3

 

[Art Eatman]

Cosmoline, relax. I think your comment, "If, however, they managed to start staging mass marches in an effort to take over local government..." has an unspoken point: I really doubt there will ever be a "mass" march of Nazis. The news said that in Toledo, twelve showed up.

If the best that can be done after sixty years of ranting and raving is to have twelve idiots show up, I really doubt there's much reason for concern.

Hey, by 2065, they might be all the way up to twenty-four. At that time, you have my blessing.

, Art

 

[Jackthelad]

Here Here Cosmo. We agree on something. If a large group of elephants were marching in my neighborhood, that would be an action. I would gear up, Nagant a blazing. 20 guys dressed up like busboys with armbands doesn't bother me.

 

[Cosmoline]

Cosmoline, relax. I think your comment, "If, however, they managed to start staging mass marches in an effort to take over local government..." has an unspoken point: I really doubt there will ever be a "mass" march of Nazis. The news said that in Toledo, twelve showed up.

Exactly. It's all hypothetical because the neo nazis are a total joke. My point was I could understand the rage of some of the locals there, though I don't quite understand how that dovetails into trashing a perfectly innocent gas station. Maybe you had to be there.

 

[Art Eatman]

junyo said:

"What black America needs, if I may, is for the vast majority of law abiding, hard working members of that community to stop being held responsible for every action of a criminal minority, and prejudged for their actions."

Yeah, 100% correct. I've been watching that with some degree of adult understanding for over forty years. I don't really have any answer.

But, I've watched the politics of racial issues for that long a time, as well. Just as with gun owners in the fight against idiotic control laws, all I can see to do is for the "law abiding, hard working" AND POLITICALLY CONSERVATIVE people to gain positions of leadership in those organizations which purport to speak for the entire group. I don't see how that can come to pass, however, desirable though it is. So far, the media is winning.

Art